Want to learn how to practice.

[rockdawg1974]

As you all know, I am a beginner keyboard/piano

student.

From the start, I want to learn how to practice effectively.

I have many method books and style learning books/CD like: "Beginning Rock Keyboards".

I also have the software: Teach me Piano.

 

I want to know what and how should I practice?

 

Should I practice the software and method books at the same time? Can I just start on "Beg Rock Keyboards." Since I want to be a rock keyboard player. I also want to learn all styles, later.

 

How many hours a day and days a week should I practice?

 

I know that you guys can help me.

 

So please advise me in the right direction. Thanks.

[Graham English]

You can see my practice techniques here

It doesn't answer all of your questions, but it will give you a turbo boost

Good luck!

[Wrave]

Hey Rockdawg! Welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not the most experienced keyboardist here you'll get to know lot's of others over time. I was posting messages like yours about a year ago so I know where you're coming from.

 

First off, look at the top of any page here on these forums and you'll see, on the right side under the avertisements a place to click for search. You'll find lots of messages about practicing if ya just type in the word "practic" (don't use the "e" or the "ing" and you'll get more hits ) and do the search.

 

When I read your message I didn't see anywhere that you had a teacher? Get a teacher! (S)he'll tell ya what to practice and how much to practice. The when to practice is up to you but I suggest you set yourself a schedule and then STICK TO IT, even if your ass falls off!!! You should have time set aside EVERY day for practicing.

 

I've been taking lessons just over a year and believe me, if I miss one day I can tell!

 

Your goal to play Rock keys is a good one but for a beginner like me, anything I learn is a step in the right direction. My teacher doesn't teach "rock" piano. She teaches "piano". You may find a teacher who can teach rock keyboards and that is good but I hope that they'll teach ya the whole kit-and-kaboodle. See, you might find someone to teach you to play a song or two like, "Here, put your fingers here, play this pattern, play it this way." And in a short time you'll have learned one or two songs. But one day, you'll find that teacher has moved away or you'll be jamming with some other musicians and they'll want to play that song "XYZ" and your teacher won't know that song "XYZ" and then what can you do? You can wait for your teacher to learn it and teach it to you or you can find a new teacher that knows that song and can teach it to you or you're gonna be stuck and not be able to add that song to your repertoir. it's far better if you've learned to read music, had some experience with chords and melodies and although it might take a little longer than learning to play "Rock keyboards" you'll find you can play any rock song, or any jazz song or any blues song or any standard...get the picture?

 

I guess the reason I took all this time to write this is that not too long ago I was looking for a guitar teacher. I wanted to pick up back where I stopped a few years ago with my guitar lessons. I called a studio and talked to the teacher making sure I mentioned that I wanted to be learning to strengthen my music reading skills. He said "No problem". I went to my first lesson and the teacher started writing out TAB charts. I guess I am wondering how many "music teachers" these days are more interested in giving their students some kind of instant gratification by teaching them to play this song or that one at the expense of teaching them how to play the instrument and how to read music. Once you learn to read a little music and handle the keyboards you'll find you can learn MOST ANY SONG much quicker. And you won't have to wait for someone else to learn it first so they can teach it to you.

 

Good luck Rockdawg and have fun!

[rockdawg1974]

Thanks, wrave, for the advice. It's great that you know where I'm coming from.

Let me explain something.

I am very fluent in music theory and reading.

My only problem is technique.

 

That's why I asked about how many hours a day and days a week is good to practice. Also, what would be best to practice.

Yes, I've had piano teachers and all they tell me is that the more I practice, the faster I'll learn. To me, that is common sense, but not helpful.

 

I've asked other musicians and they know how to play better than I can because they said thay taught themselves.

 

If there is any more advice, please help me.

 

Thanks.

[Graham English]

I read that practicing more than 3 hours a day can produce diminishing returns. Sorry, but I can't remember the source. If you want to work at music more than 3 hours, then study theory, do ear training, improvise, oh yeah, and listen to music

 

I always practice my technique with classical. I stay away from Hannon and such these days. I feel more stimulated working with actual musical pieces and I have yet to play a Hannon study in a rock song. But Beethoven has enough scales to keep my technique top notch.

[Wrave]

I don't know about the diminishing returns Graham is talking about. He might be right in that we do reach a saturation point with the amount of new concepts we can absorb in one sitting. At least, I see that in myself.

 

When I was a kid and first started on guitar, I would practice six to eight hours a day. Part of that time was restricted to assignments given by my teacher and part of it was for my own pleasure. It took me about a year to reach a point where my teacher recommended me to some other guys that were looking to put a band together and needed a rhythm guitar. My "chops" got better, faster, working with that first band than with all of the in-my-room-by-myself practice I could do. Something about making music with someone else brings it all together.

 

Right now I have a day job that seriously interferes with my practicing. Even so I try to get about three hours a day on my teacher's assignments. I don't always do that but it is a goal. I try to practice every day and usually do. I can get an hour in before I leave for my job and then a couple after work before I am too tired to concentrate.

 

Working with the band (and while it's not the same, playing along with recorded music can give you a similar experience) helped me to use my ears more and that helped too. It'd be great if you are in a position that you can observe someone playing professionally. It's not easy with the keyboard because we can't get on stage and sit behind them and watch their hands so we can cop their licks but it'd sure be beneficial. Video's and DVDs can kind of put you in the picture this way but it's not the same as having someone right there but better than nothing.

 

I know what you mean about self-taught musicians that play pretty well. The have been doing it for a bit longer than you though, right? They've probably had to use their ears a lot and I think that why Graham recommends listening to music.

 

I've had to learn a bit of patience too. I played guitar and bass, bass professionally for about 20 years, and it is frustrating when I sit down at the keys and have to struggle with what I know is very basic stuff. But, playing the keyboard is harder than playing bass...at least to me it is. I didn't play too many chords on bass, I didn't play melody lines and I never played them together! SO, in that sense, this keyboard is a whole new world. I am using a completely different set of muscles and I am using differnet patterns and coordination. I'd like to just sit down an play like I pretty much can with the bass but there's lots more going on with the keys. I've accepted that it's gonna take me some time. But I do keep hearing improvements and I know how it can, almost magically, just "click" one day and my playing can improve a lot all of a sudden.

 

It just sounds to me like you are wanting to put some kind of boundary or measurement on what you can expect from what you invest. Don't worry about it. Just keep working at it and you'll get there. Practicing as much as you can as often as you can will produce results as soon as it can.

 

Have fun and good luck!

[Renie]

Originally posted by Graham English:

You can see my practice techniques here

It doesn't answer all of your questions, but it will give you a turbo boost

Good luck!

Graham, isn't that about sax practice?

Cheers

Renie

[Dan South]

Diminishing returns in the economic sense means that after a while you get less return for each unit of investment. You don't LOSE anything, you just don't gain as quickly. So six hour of practice might yield 125% of the effect of three hours as opposed to the expected 200% if practice were completely linear.

 

That said, practicing DIFFERENTLY probably lessens the diminishing returns effect. Let's say you practice alone for two hours, then go to a two hour band or orchestra rehersal, then spend two hours tracking in a studio, then two hours on a gig. That's eight hours of playing, but since you're doing it in different contexts, I would bet that you'd gain more from that than from eight hours of practice by yourself. Anyone agree or disagree?

[Superbobus]

My only problem is technique.

That's why I asked about how many hours a day and days a week is good to practice. Also, what would be best to practice.

It's not how many hours you practice each day. It's the efficiency that counts. What you need is some kind of practice routine that works for you. Technically you will need to work on scales (right, left, going the same way together, away from each other and encountering each other), triads, all kinds of arpeggios and most important, in every key!

This can become pretty boring but you have to invest in it. After two or three months (!) you'll start noticing a difference and your technical development will get very much noticed while practicing songs. I guess lots of more info is provided by Graham.

Tip: start out with the boring stuff so you did it already before the more fun stuff is coming in.

[Dave Pierce]

Originally posted by Dan South:

Diminishing returns in the economic sense means that after a while you get less return for each unit of investment. You don't LOSE anything, you just don't gain as quickly. So six hour of practice might yield 125% of the effect of three hours as opposed to the expected 200% if practice were completely linear.

 

That said, practicing DIFFERENTLY probably lessens the diminishing returns effect. Let's say you practice alone for two hours, then go to a two hour band or orchestra rehersal, then spend two hours tracking in a studio, then two hours on a gig. That's eight hours of playing, but since you're doing it in different contexts, I would bet that you'd gain more from that than from eight hours of practice by yourself. Anyone agree or disagree?

I totally agree with Dan's point here. Doing different things, in different styles, greatly increases my learning efficiency.

 

My position is a bit different, I was a regular gigging musician 12 years ago, then I quit until early this year. So my efforts have been focused on getting *back* what I used to have. Exercises and such at home helped some, but time on the keys in various situations with other musicians is what has helped me the most.

 

--Dave

[Graham English]

The first half of my practice schedule is applicable to any instrument. The second half is dedicated to wind instruments.

[LiveMusic]

If you know how chords are comprised, good. If you don't I suggest you learn it. I took up piano about eight months ago, after letting my new keyboard sit there for a year after I bought it. Intimidated by all the buttons and not knowing where to start. Finally decided that if knew how to play chords on the piano like I do the guitar, I could at least play some music. In two weeks, it was a dramatic advance. I highly recommend it. All the different types of chords. Then, pick out (transcribe) lots and lots of songs by yourself.

[zatoichi]

Hey, 'Dawg -

 

Seems like I chimed in on your last practice thread, too.

 

Brief background: I was a working rock drummer during the psychedelic era, switched to guitar in the mid-'70s, and taught myself to play both (did have some drumming lessons from a jazz guy, but I didn't have the patience, so like you, I whaled away for hours every day (made me a rock-solid rhythm guitarist)).

 

I quickly figured out that piano was going to be different, and found myself a teacher. I've been taking lessons since August. My progress has been abysmal, because I have several other projects ramping up (plus a wife, an ex-wife, & a teen-age daughter); in short, for several weeks, my practice consisted of an hour right before each lesson (!).

 

So I did some strategising w/ my teacher last week, and what we worked out was practice sessions 20-30 minutes long, and the goal of 3 sessions each day. He made the point that even under the best circumstances attenttion tends to fray around 40-45 minutes; also, because I'm having to (re)train a lotta muscles, it's easy to overwork the muscles quickly.

 

This has made it much easier for me to get SOME practice done every day, and my grasp of things is improving; I find I get more out of the shrter sessions because I'm fresh and ready every time I sit down, and I'm done before my muscles start to get stiff.

 

Another thing I've learned is not to practice too late in the day; for me, this means that I need to be done w/ practice by 8pm.

 

Having a teacher really is a good idea; mine catches me all the time on things I don't even realise I'm doing. I've learned (am learning) a ton o' stuff I could never have taught myself.