Used real analog or new VA?

[Veracohr]

I'm considering my next noise maker, even if I can't actually buy it yet. I'm torn between getting an older analog keyboard or a new virtual analog. I make techno music, so MIDI is important. Ebay has a few Juno 106s for not too much right now, maybe there will be others when I can afford to get one. I have played one VA for more than just a second, the Korg MS2000, and I would have it now if I could afford it, I like it a lot. Plus it's a good price for me, I don't have a couple thousand dollars to spend on a Nord, but then again by the time I can afford to buy any keyboard, maybe I will. I haven't played a real analog, but I like the sound. However, the VAs are surely more complete in their MIDI implementation than the older analogs. I'm sure the Andromeda has just as good MIDI, but it's way out of my price range.

 

Are the VAs a lot more versatile, or just a little? Or not at all? I know this is an outplayed subject, but I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm looking for advice.

[Odyssian]

Hi Veracohr. I think it depends on how much of a stickler you are for analogues. I think that with the number of affordable and well spec'd VAs out there today, most people would be happiest going that route.

 

If you decide to buy vintage analogue, you may run into problems like intermittent keys and controls, or possibly tuning problems. These problems can be fixed in most cases, but be aware that it can require a little "legwork" from you to repair. Also, most of the old analogues will not have Midi unless retrofitted. Because of this they are often more of a "player's" instrument.

 

It's only if you set on experiencing the "real deal" that you should look into a true analogue (IMO). There is a difference in sound, but I think nowadays VAs do very well in covering the majority of the sonic ground that analogues do.

 

It's only if you are really set on going that extra mile or two that you should consider an analogue. Or... if you simply want one for the sake of experiencing all it's idiosyncrasies and coolness.

[burningbusch]

Personally I'd go with either the Korg or Novation VAs. The 106 is a single oscillator design with one envelope generator. The chorus was added to make up for the fullness/motion loss from only have one osc. No unison mode either. Very limited, IMHO.

 

The Novation A/K series are eight voice polyphony with three oscillators/voice and two envelope generators. The Korg is a four voice poly with two osc and two EGs. Both sound quite nice, but I favor the Novation as the four note polyphony on the Korg is a definite limitation. Novation is coming out with a new KS series which brings larger keyboards and 16 note polyphony for not a lot more money than the K-station.

 

I would bet either of the VAs could mimic the sounds of the Juno quite easily, but there are tons of things you could do with them that the 106 couldn't touch.

 

Busch.

[Synthguy]

What he said. Darn, now I have to go to the Novation site!!

 

Another factor with the VAs is that they send MIDI data for any edits you do, either as sys-ex (late 80s-early 90s mostly) or MIDI controllers/NRPNs. So if you sequence as I do, you can record your noodlings with your slider fiddlings and get an evolving performance captured in its entirety. I have to say the Novation is really sweet, and those "liquid" filters sure sound juicy. And the price is right.

[RABid]

I would also recommend a VA over a cheap analog. If you don't need keys there are some great deals. I love the Yamaha AN200 and DX200. For $200 nothing comes close. The ultamate for me is the Nord Modular Rack. The Korg is a good choice and I have considered it. My next purchase will most likely be the Novation A-Station or the Virus C table top.

 

Robert

[burningbusch]

Yeah, I just noticed the AN200 at zzounds for $200. Those won't last long.

 

Busch.

[synthetic]

http://home.earthlink.net/~synthetic/digiana.jpg

[coyote]

Does this mean I'd have to take my analog synth out for dinner and buy it roses in order for it to perform well?

 

Originally posted by synthetic:

http://home.earthlink.net/~synthetic/digiana.jpg

[Tusker]

Ha ha. Of course not, just budget half your income for care and feeding.

 

Seriously though, it's really up to you. If you need a tight snappy Roland style bass, you might decide you need the Juno. Or not. On pads and leads the VA's seems fine to me. Of course they aren't great substitutes for something like the minimoog, but a lot of trance and techno songs use "signature" sounds that are much easier to do on a VA. IMHO.

 

I generally find I have to "try harder" on a VA. But they are flexible, and feature rich.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[Felix_dup1]

IMO, when other features (like MIDI, presets, flexibility, etc.) factor in, VA's offer more versatility and bang for the buck.

 

If it's just about the sound, Analog stuff sounds pretty cool. VA's have some cool sounds of their own, and most of them are more versatile sound-wise than vintage analog synths.

 

Can't beat a factory warranty, either.

 

I like the MS2000, though 4-voices is a bit limiting. The fact that it has a modulation matrix and a built-in vocoder is pretty cool.

 

Also don't forget grooveboxes as potential VA sound sources. Roland MC-09, Roland SH-32, Korg Electribe EA-1 and ER-1, Yamaha AN-200, etc.

[coyote]

Isn't that always part of the equation? In many cases you can get 90% of everything you'd really want/need for 25-35% of the price... it's analogous (pardon the pun) to telling a beginning student that the only violin worth having is a Guarneri. The student wouldn't be any better on it than on a $150 student model - and of course Perlman would make the student model sing if he played it.

 

Originally posted by felix:

IMO, when other features (like MIDI, presets, flexibility, etc.) factor in, VA's offer more versatility and bang for the buck.

[Tusker]

Originally posted by coyote:

Isn't that always part of the equation? In many cases you can get 90% of everything you'd really want/need for 25-35% of the price... it's analogous (pardon the pun) to telling a beginning student that the only violin worth having is a Guarneri. The student wouldn't be any better on it than on a $150 student model - and of course Perlman would make the student model sing if he played it.

 

Originally posted by felix:

IMO, when other features (like MIDI, presets, flexibility, etc.) factor in, VA's offer more versatility and bang for the buck.

Actually correct me if I'm wrong but I think Felix is going further than what you would suggest. I think he is saying is that the student violin (to use your analogy) can sometimes do things the Guarneri cannot.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[Bobro]

Check out the Micro Q Lite, about 550 dollars or so.

 

Like Micro Q, but "only" 16 voices

300 Single Programs

100 Multi Programme

20 Drummaps

Arpeggiator

Vocoder

6 Endless knobs

16 Editbuttons

2 x 20 Display

6 Analogoutputs (3 Stereo Outs)

2 Analoginputs (1 Stereo In)

19 / 2 HE

 

And sounds great. And it's upgradable to Micro Q for more voices. Doesn't pretend to be neo-vintage, but I'm listening to your mp3's, dig the "Vision" concept, and I'm thinking your going to be wanting some evolving sounds? The Micro Q Lite has modulation capabilities up the butt for some seriously alive sounds.

 

-Bobro

[Veracohr]

http://home.earthlink.net/~synthetic/digiana.jpg

 

Wouldn't that be Digital, and Virtual Analog? Of course, in order to make a good purchasing decision, I will need to first...um...play...with the real analog one. Only then can I...um...feel good...about my decision.

[aeon]

Bobro said:

Check out the Micro Q Lite, about 550 dollars or so.

Dont spend 550 USD on a Waldorf Micro Q Lite when you can get a full Micro Q for 475 USD.

[Bobro]

Originally posted by aeon:

Bobro said:

Check out the Micro Q Lite, about 550 dollars or so.

Dont spend 550 USD on a Waldorf Micro Q Lite when you can get a full Micro Q for 475 USD.

Even better! But where did you find that price? The Micro Q is around 700-800+ here.

 

-Bobro

[Bobro]

Originally posted by Veracohr:

Wouldn't that be Digital, and Virtual Analog? Of course, in order to make a good purchasing decision, I will need to first...um...play...with the real analog one. Only then can I...um...feel good...about my decision.

Well VA is digital. The "analog" is modelled. But even a Juno has DCO, digitally controlled oscillator, some analog freaks would only consider VCO, voltage controlled oscillator. But you didn't want to turn this into a digital/analog debate so we'll leave it at that!

 

-Bobro

[Veracohr]

Bobro: sorry you misunderstood me, but I was trying to make a joke about the pictures. LIke, the robot is "Digital", and the picture of the real woman is "Virtual analog" because it's a digital representation of a real thing. Get it? I want the real analog there, you see.

[Bobro]

Originally posted by Veracohr:

Bobro: sorry you misunderstood me, but I was trying to make a joke about the pictures. LIke, the robot is "Digital", and the picture of the real woman is "Virtual analog" because it's a digital representation of a real thing. Get it? I want the real analog there, you see.

Okay- but you know, that robot lady is looking pretty good...