I don't care....

[Slowly]

God bless America! Kcbass

[Dan O]

I am glad you don't care . I was touched by the ground zero memorial service .

 

thanks ...........dano

[Pim]

Please, ask your god to bless the whole planet, not just one country...

[Bucktunes]

Originally posted by Kcbass:

God bless America! Kcbass

Amen!

 

Pim, why don't you ask Him? I'm sure He'd be glad to hear from you!

 

Peace all,

Steve

[soapbox]

Originally posted by Pim:

Please, ask your god to bless the whole planet, not just one country...

Pim, the American use of "God Bless" is one that non-Americans often seem to have difficulty in understanding.

 

We use "God Bless" pretty casually in this country. (In fact, sometimes people say it routinely without even believing in God.) For example, when someone sneezes, it's considered rude to sit quietly by. Our common courtesy demands a response of "God Bless You" or "Gesundheit." When someone says, "God Bless You" to another who has sneezed, that person doesn't mean "God Bless Only You." This person is simply reacting to the sneeze with concern for the one who has sneezed.

 

Similarly, when one says, "God Bless America," it is probably wrong to infer that this means, "God Bless Only America." Usually this saying is expressed when America has been attacked, either verbally or physically. In this way, it is somewhat akin to saying, "God Bless You" when a sneeze has attacked the body. This is said as a reaction to the attack with concern for the ones who were attacked.

 

At the same time, it would be good for us Americans to be sensitive to fears from elsewhere in the world that "God Bless America" might mean "God Bless Only America." After all, nationalism, coupled with aggression has been the cause of most wars in history. People who don't live here don't know first-hand what we are like. What they do know is that we have a destructive military arsenal at our disposal, and that they have little or no say as to how we use it. Our words and actions will either alleviate or fuel the fear that we may use our weapons aggressively. This makes it important that we avoid misunderstandings whenever possible.

 

God bless all of us, for now more than ever we are all in this together.

 

Peace.

[Slowly]

Originally posted by soapbox:

Originally posted by Pim:

Please, ask your god to bless the whole planet, not just one country...

Pim, the American use of "God Bless" is one that non-Americans often seem to have difficulty in understanding.

 

We use "God Bless" pretty casually in this country. (In fact, sometimes people say it routinely without even believing in God.) For example, when someone sneezes, it's considered rude to sit quietly by. Our common courtesy demands a response of "God Bless You" or "Gesundheit." When someone says, "God Bless You" to another who has sneezed, that person doesn't mean "God Bless Only You." This person is simply reacting to the sneeze with concern for the one who has sneezed.

 

Similarly, when one says, "God Bless America," it is probably wrong to infer that this means, "God Bless Only America." Usually this saying is expressed when America has been attacked, either verbally or physically. In this way, it is somewhat akin to saying, "God Bless You" when a sneeze has attacked the body. This is said as a reaction to the attack with concern for the ones who were attacked.

 

At the same time, it would be good for us Americans to be sensitive to fears from elsewhere in the world that "God Bless America" might mean "God Bless Only America." After all, nationalism, coupled with aggression has been the cause of most wars in history. People who don't live here don't know first-hand what we are like. What they do know is that we have a destructive military arsenal at our disposal, and that they have little or no say as to how we use it. Our words and actions will either alleviate or fuel the fear that we may use our weapons aggressively. This makes it important that we avoid misunderstandings whenever possible.

 

God bless all of us, for now more than ever we are all in this together.

 

Peace.

Soapbox, your wisdom and insight amazes me, Thank you. Kcbass

[Pim]

I am afraid of what religion in combination with an "ism" can trigger. (ism = patriotism, nationalism, communism, socialism etc.)

 

Before you know it there is a situation of "we" against "them", and in this kind of situations many well thinking persons can get blind for the consequences of their acts.

 

All I am asking to the world, is to think as an individual. Religion is a private matter and should be threated that way. Avoid following "isms"; they bring nothing but grief and destruction.

 

"God bless America" is just an expression. But it can be used in a totaly wrong way. As far as I know the members of this forum are gathered on the same side: we're brothers and sisters on a wonderful planet.

 

My other hobby, my motorcycle, brings me in contact with Americans who think totaly different about their god and America. They think in a matter of "we, the people of America and God" against the rest of this world, which they consider as their back yard.

(those kind of thoughts excist in my country too)

 

Pretty scary, my brothers and sisters!

[Jotown]

Originally posted by Pim:

Please, ask your god to bless the whole planet, not just one country...

I just asked God and she said she bless's the whole planet.

 

Amsterdam also.

[soapbox]

Kcbass, thank you for your kind words.

 

Pim, I believe that you are right about the prevailing views in this forum. It does my heart good to see that here.

 

I wish that you weren't right about the "us" vs. "them" attitude, both here and elsewhere in the world; but I must concede that this outlook is all too common. Thank you for your gentle push to bring us together rather than to divide.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Tusker]

Pim:

 

I understand that there are scary people out there who hold extremely selfish, bigoted views. I understand that statements like "God Bless America" can be used by them to develop a don't care attitude towards the rest of the world.

America is powerful, we should be sensitive to how people view our sayings.

 

Still, I am wondering how far one should go. Many national anthems of many countries around the world ask god to bless that country. Or they might say, "lets unite for the common good" (of people within that country). Or they might say "we shall be victorious" (the people within that country).

 

Is it the "God" part that troubles you? Is it the "us" part? Is it the "God" part and the "us" part when used by a powerful country. Is it nationalism in general?

 

A number of sociologists are predicting the end of the nation state. They say this will come about when the world becomes small enough due to better communication and nations are unable to provide distinctly different benefits to their citizenry. They believe that ethnic, cultural and other determinants are the more lasting ones that human self-identity will evolve around in the next century. Such determinants have been around longer (thousands of years) than the nation states. Personally I'll take national difference over ethnic or cultural ones (my wife was a refugee of an ethnic cleansing).

 

One could ask the question, "why have differences at all"? Or "Do we want the benign aspects of it only?" (world cup, olympics, etc)

 

It's a good question. Just wondering.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[nursers]

Originally posted by soapbox:

Originally posted by Pim:

Please, ask your god to bless the whole planet, not just one country...

Pim, the American use of "God Bless" is one that non-Americans often seem to have difficulty in understanding.

 

We use "God Bless" pretty casually in this country. (In fact, sometimes people say it routinely without even believing in God.) For example, when someone sneezes, it's considered rude to sit quietly by. Our common courtesy demands a response of "God Bless You" or "Gesundheit." When someone says, "God Bless You" to another who has sneezed, that person doesn't mean "God Bless Only You." This person is simply reacting to the sneeze with concern for the one who has sneezed.

 

Similarly, when one says, "God Bless America," it is probably wrong to infer that this means, "God Bless Only America." Usually this saying is expressed when America has been attacked, either verbally or physically. In this way, it is somewhat akin to saying, "God Bless You" when a sneeze has attacked the body. This is said as a reaction to the attack with concern for the ones who were attacked.

 

At the same time, it would be good for us Americans to be sensitive to fears from elsewhere in the world that "God Bless America" might mean "God Bless Only America." After all, nationalism, coupled with aggression has been the cause of most wars in history. People who don't live here don't know first-hand what we are like. What they do know is that we have a destructive military arsenal at our disposal, and that they have little or no say as to how we use it. Our words and actions will either alleviate or fuel the fear that we may use our weapons aggressively. This makes it important that we avoid misunderstandings whenever possible.

 

God bless all of us, for now more than ever we are all in this together.

 

Peace.

Just a historical note:

 

'God bless you' was originally an english term in the middle ages when the plague was big - when people sneezed you would say god bless you in the hope He would prevent it being the plague....

[Pim]

Originally posted by Tusker:

Pim:

Is it the "God" part that troubles you? Is it the "us" part? Is it the "God" part and the "us" part when used by a powerful country. Is it nationalism in general?

1. I am afraid of people who are speaking on behalve of a god. ("Gods own country" & "If Allah didn't want that to happen, he would have stopped us")

2. I am afraid of nationalism.

3. I am very afraid of a combination of these two.

 

Originally posted by Tusker:

One could ask the question, "why have differences at all"? Or "Do we want the benign aspects of it only?" (world cup, olympics, etc)

 

It's a good question. Just wondering.

In general I would say that all people are even unequal... UN-equal. Every person has the right to be different in my point of view.

 

Thanks guys. This forum makes me feel proud.

[Synthguy]

No offense, but that sounds a little paranoid. Every nation isn't killing every other nation. Nations and religions aren't the problem, it's individuals that cause all the trouble. People like Yassir Arafat and Hussein and Quadaffy. Let reason rather than nerves be the guide to understanding.

 

Oh well, God bless America. And Israel too.

[RABid]

Originally posted by synthguy:

...Nations and religions aren't the problem, it's individuals that cause all the trouble...

Very, very true. Behind most every conflict is an individual hoping for personnel gains.

 

And in America, "God Bless America" is taking on another meaning. People are starting to worry about their freedoms. If you cannot say In God we trust in school, where do we loose the next chunk of freedom of speech? Between that court case and the events of 9/11 the God Bless America banners are very popular.

 

Robert

[D_dup3]

I think Pim is just suggesting that everyone would be better off if we were able to foster a "brother- (& sister)-hood of man" view.

...& I agree, don't you?

 

Where's that yoko ono chick when ya need her?

[Pim]

Originally posted by synthguy:

No offense, but that sounds a little paranoid. Every nation isn't killing every other nation. Nations and religions aren't the problem, it's individuals that cause all the trouble. People like Yassir Arafat and Hussein and Quadaffy. Let reason rather than nerves be the guide to understanding.

 

Oh well, God bless America. And Israel too.

No offense taken

 

Arafat has the talent to make wrong decisions. His time has come.

 

Saddam H. is a disgusting dictator. Instead of bombing Irak, the free world should spend their money and effort just to arrest this man and bring him to trial.

 

Khadaffi - Not worth the time and energy.

 

Israel... I still can not understand that a country is founded & based on a book. Just because people think this book is written by a god they think they can claim every piece of land described in the book.

Don't get me wrong: I know what jews have gone through during WWII. I understand they wanted have a save place. But they all could have come to Amsterdam! Or the U.S.A.

 

Religion... I don't get it.

[shniggens]

RELIGION IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!!

[Bucktunes]

Originally posted by shniggens:

RELIGION IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!!

Correction; The misunderstanding, mutation, and perversion of religion is the root of all evil. There is NO legitimate religion that encourages or condones murder of innocent people, in your own land or anyone else's! When people form opinions and take action based on misinformation, that's when ugly things start happening.

 

Bottom line; The love of money (not money alone, as is often misquoted) is the root of all evil.

 

Peace all,

Steve

[Synthguy]

I would add to Bucktunes' statement, which is quite true for the most part - there are some really nasty religions lurking under our floorboards - that atheistic communist nations have killed as much as 200 million of its own citizens in the previous century. If I recall right, that still exceeds all the deaths of all religiously related conflicts throughout history combined. So evidently institutional liberal humanism is even more dangerous than militant Islam.

 

If I could trust people to have enough sense to handle a world government, I'd be all for it. But the creed to which I adhere indicates that the last government of mankind will be a global village, started with the intent of freedom and goodwill, but its consequence will be hell. And from what I see going on in the UN, I have nothing to be confident of.

 

Oh well, in the meantime, peace to all and death to terror.

[Superbobus]

Nations and religions aren't the problem, it's individuals that cause all the trouble.

Remember that behind every so called individual like Bin Laden or Saddam there's a whole organized network. It's not the individuals (okay, there are exceptions). Without individuals we would have a pretty boring society. It's the total misinterpretation of religion and religious warfare that fucks everything up.