help selecting keyboard

[Simone]

I'm a singer with some basic piano skills looking to play/arrange/mix my own instrumental track, then add my vocals and burn a CD. I have never used a keyboard/synthesizer. Does any one machine do it all or do I need both a keyboard and a recorder/mixer?

 

Keyboard: I would prefer 76 keys but could probably make do with 61. Would like floppy disk, good jazz sounds, (sax, horn), vocal sounds if possible, drum kits, good-size LCD, at least 8 tracks, direct to computer hookup (is that the right term)? And good telephone/computer support. Since I am new at this, I am looking for a system that is easy to play/arrange/edit/mix...any other thoughts?

 

Note: I like the Roland sounds but hear that they are difficult to play.

 

Recorder: If recorder can mix sounds and vocal can I use this to edit/mix track and make-do with a less expensive keyboard? What's minimum number of tracks?

 

If possible, I would like to stay under $2000 for both. Is that unrealistic?

 

Thanks!

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Simone:

[QB][/QB]

You have options!

 

You can either go the standalone recorder or the computer route. Either way is going to set you back about $1100 dollars. If you already have a computer though, that's reasonably up-to-date, you can cut that in about half. If you go the stand-alone route you need a unit with an inbuilt cd rom burner. The low end units don't have this and stand-alone audio cd burners are absurdly expesnive.

 

In addition, you will need a microphone ($100-300 depending upon quality - you can get quite satisfactory results with the low end). Some way of replaying the sounds - a good set of headphones are around $100, speakers about twice that on up.

 

So that's $1300. You can certainly get a pretty ok keyboard for $700. You won't have a lot of choice but its do-able.

 

An alternative is to use the computer with a soft synth and a USB keyboard. With this you are going to be sequencing rather than playing the keyboard parts. If your keyboard ability is limited, that might be just the way to go.

[Simone]

Thanks Byrdman.

 

Could you elaborate a little bit more on option B, the computer w/soft synth + USB keyboard? Is that three pieces of equipment but no recorder? Also could you describe the sequencing process in a little more detail?

 

Thanks again for your help.

[progfusion74]

The computer is your recorder.

 

You will need

 

A host/sequencer: e.g. Cubase, logic or sonar (there are other options)

A set of softsynths that work in your host of choice

A USB keyboard to control those synths (or any synth/controller connected to your computer to send MIDI instructions)

[DJDM]

I'm big on Reason , (softsynths), and Cubase VST 5.1 r1 , (Recording and Mixing DAW). It's little pricey for Cubase so you may want to look for a less expensive program for recording.

The stock Pianos in Reason are a little weak and you may want to upgrade to something like Steinberg's "The Grand" but you would need a program that plays VSTs.

Your budget for a system like this could run from about $500-$1100 for the software but if you can afford it the payoff in quality is phenomenal!

If you want to check out some of the tracks that I have done with this combination you can follow the link below.

Best of luck,

- DJDM

[Simone]

Thanks progfusion74 and DJDM.

 

I am still learning all the terms so sorry if I sound a little dense. But here it goes...

 

When you say I will need a "USB keyboard to control synths (or any synth controller connected to computer to send Midi instructions" are saying that all I need is my computer (to act as recorder) + a USB keyboard w/Midi to connect to my computer?

 

Unfortunately the terms "Reason", "Cubase" and "Softsynth" are more foreign to me than the words "keyboard" and "computer". So it would be nice if all I needed was the right kind of keyboard. I have a computer.

 

If I am on the wrong track...please correct. If I am on the right track, what USB keyboard w/Midi do you recommend?

 

Thanks again for all your help!

[DJDM]

Originally posted by Simone:

Thanks progfusion74 and DJDM.

 

I am still learning all the terms so sorry if I sound a little dense. But here it goes...

 

When you say I will need a "USB keyboard to control synths (or any synth controller connected to computer to send Midi instructions" are saying that all I need is my computer (to act as recorder) + a USB keyboard w/Midi to connect to my computer?

 

Unfortunately the terms "Reason", "Cubase" and "Softsynth" are more foreign to me than the words "keyboard" and "computer". So it would be nice if all I needed was the right kind of keyboard. I have a computer.

 

If I am on the wrong track...please correct. If I am on the right track, what USB keyboard w/Midi do you recommend?

 

Thanks again for all your help!

Hmmm... Let me try this a different way...

 

This is an image of a midi studio:

http://www.vintagesynth.org/setups/setup1.jpg

In the above example the keyboard would be a controller like this:

http://www.midiman.com/products/midiman/images/key61x500.jpg

That could hook up to your computer with this USB connector, (instead of the Midi bay that is in the graph above):

http://www.midiman.com/common_images/usbcable.jpg

And you would run software like this on your computer for sound sources, (instead of buying Hardware samplers/synths and recording gear that does the essentially the same thing).

 

REASON for synthesizers, samplers and or drums (See link in previous post for more information):

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/img/little_big_picture.jpg

 

CUBASE SX for recording, perhaps higher quality piano via VST, (See link in previous post for more information):

http://pics.steinberg.net/content/en/ps/products/music_production/cubasesx/th_mixer_narrow.jpg

 

It's a little tricky but what Prog and I are suggesting is that you can get software to run on your computer that will emulate hardware synthesizers and samplers as well as recording gear. Your best bet is to go to a music store and get a demo if you can. Actually seeing the stuff in action is way better then trying to understand it here. Kinda like describing peeling an orange.

Good luck,

- DJDM

[progfusion74]

What he said so brilliantly

[Synthguy]

I'm the keyboard geek around here, and tho I use the PC to record with, I really like the sounds in hardware keyboards and synths. You could get a Yamaha S80 and Cubase SX. That would give you an 88 note piano keyboard, excellent piano, a whole ton of instrument sounds, some nice synth sounds, great effects, and a terrific sequencer with its own effects and soft synths. With a CD burner on your computer you could produce your own album. You can also get additional synth and effects boards for the Yamaha fairly cheaply, like $200 or so. Most places are selling the S80 below $1500. You might also get a Yamaha Motif, which is like the S80 but with more sounds, basic sampling and a built in sequencer.

 

Or you could get a Roland, like a Fantom. It sounds fantastic, and has a great sequencer built in. If you don't mind shopping ebay for something used, there are XP-60s and 80s for sale, which sound nearly as good, and have the same wonderful sequencer. Or a Korg Triton or Karma, they're fantastic instruments too, and the Triton is a full featured sampler. Going the soft synth only route can be cool, or a headache. It depends on your computer's horsepower, operating system, motherboard and processor, room on your drive, sound card, graphics card(!), etc. And its best if you have your computer dedicated to ONLY doing music, as the more you ask it to do, the buggier it gets. Mine is doing all the work, and I really need to budget for that music PC pretty soon. It's cranky and stubborn, and... I'd love to wring Bill Gates' neck sometimes.

 

Anyway, good luck with everything.

[DJDM]

Originally posted by synthguy:

[QB] Mine is doing all the work, and I really need to budget for that music PC pretty soon. It's cranky and stubborn, and... I'd love to wring Bill Gates' neck sometimes. [QB]

Hey SG,

If you are having trouble with your computer's performance and you are on Win XP, (which I recommend whole heartedly!), you should check out this site: MusicXP.net

Great tips for streamlining your system for audio use. And I also use my system for everything from Photoshop 7.0 image work, Go Live web dev, Office XP applications, gaming, as well as monstrous music applications and I have not had a lick of trouble.

I wish this site had been around when I was starting out! It would have saved me a ton of trouble!

Hope that helps with the "Gates Machine",

- DJDM

[Simone]

Thanks DJDM, progfusion74 and synthguy.

 

I tried to post a reply before, so this may be redundant. In short, the diagram was very helpful. I think I get it.

 

Synthguy's recommendation for a musical pc separate from my computer sounds somehow more manageable but also more expensive. I already checked out the ROland Fantom. It sounds terrific and is supposed to be relatively easy to use (very important to me). However, it's a bit pricey. Will check out the other recommendations (i.e., Yamaha and Korg).

 

Still have to record/edit/mix in my vocals....hmmm this is starting to add up.

 

Next stop music store and perhaps ebay for used equipment.

 

Thanks again.

[Simone]

Thanks DJDM, progufusion74 and synthguy for all your help, especially the diagram - very helpful. Synthguy thanks also for the recommendations. I will check them out at the music store.

 

I'm having some problems posting this reply. With any luck, I only sent this once.

 

Thanks again.

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Simone:

Thanks DJDM, progfusion74 and synthguy.

 

I tried to post a reply before, so this may be redundant. In short, the diagram was very helpful. I think I get it.

 

Synthguy's recommendation for a musical pc separate from my computer sounds somehow more manageable but also more expensive. I already checked out the ROland Fantom. It sounds terrific and is supposed to be relatively easy to use (very important to me). However, it's a bit pricey. Will check out the other recommendations (i.e., Yamaha and Korg).

 

Still have to record/edit/mix in my vocals....hmmm this is starting to add up.

 

Next stop music store and perhaps ebay for used equipment.

 

Thanks again.

What do you have for a computer at the moment? If its a pentium II or better you should not need to upgrade it - you may, however, need to add memory and/or extra disk.

 

Depending upon what you have this may be easy or hard. If you bought it from a local computer store that builds up their own machines, or if you built it yourself (which is what I do) this will be easy. If you bought it from one of the national chains, it could be harder as they tend to scrimp on expandibility to save a few dollars on price.

 

We can help you on that but you may need to open it up and tell us what you see. I bet DJDM has some schematics in his pocket that show what everything does - that was a real nice post describing the basics.

 

You can start with a minimal system and expand later. The key is to try to avoid buying things that you will later replace. This is easier to say than do - I've allowed myself to be sucked in on a couple of pieces of gear I wish I hadn't bought, but one learns.

[Simone]

Byrdman,

 

I do have a pentium II computer and your option B is probably the less expensive way to go. There is a local guy who can add memory if I need it. I guess I am just concerned about overloading or overloading the computer with too much musical stuff. And the idea of a separate self-contained musical pc seems a little easier to manage somehow. Still, haven't given up on option B yet, just weighing the options.

 

Just read about the General Music keyboard, Genesys II(?) Sounds like a little mini-studio that could do everything I need. Know anything about it? Or the Tritan Studio?

 

Thanks.