OT - Republicans at work

[Wow]

I never got my free coffee maker with my 500th post. Whats up with that?

[Gtoledo3]

I think that C.M's racial slurs on the Japanese commercial thread tell you where he's at.

[Wow]

What do you mean racial slurs? I abbreviated the word Japanese(sp) because I could not spell it. I really hope this is not what you are referring to, because if it is then you are just trying to pick a fight. Please tell me you found more than this. If you havent then to hell with you coming over here and calling me a racist. Do you have anything to add to the thread or are you just being a dick?

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b]Look at any breakdown of who pays taxes, and 97% of all taxes are paid by the top 50% . The top 10% pay 55% of all taxes. The scale is WAY lopsided . You only have to make $90,000 to be in the top 10%. Its lower than you would think. I am not saying that you pay no taxes, what I am saying is that the top earners in this country pay the majority of the taxes.[/b][/quote]Makes sense to me. Conservative wind, Jotown? I really have to take my hat off to C.M. for standing by what he believes even though he faces such broad opposition. Some of the liberal arguments I've read (and I haven't read THAT many) range from well thought out, to totaly wacked-out. I respect anyone who can stand by their beliefs even if it means taking some heat. And actually, C.M. seems to hold his own against everyone else. Personally, I'm probably more guilty of placing a little too much blind-faith in our leaders. That's not a good thing. But consider those who hold too much blind-cynicism. Is it any better? I glanced at the LONG list at the top of this page -did anyone actually read ALL of THAT? I read the article about 'Big Brother' in another thread. Here's the problem I have with ALL of this: Where is the objectivity? Where is the balance? I mean, really wrave, how much balls does it take to post something like this on a largely Liberal-biased board??? I want to see some equal time here. Seriously, if you want to know how bad the Republican party is, just ask a Democrat. Well, duh!!! Like I'm really going to get a fair analysis of the issues by doing THAT. I have a challenge for those of you here who perpetuate these political boards: I challenge you to find something good to say about the Party, or the Politician you dislike. NO SARCASM IS ALLOWED. You have to be honest in your remarks! Ideally you should post ONE good thing for EVERY bad thing. Why??? Because it would help cool down the hot-heads. Because it would show everyone that you focus on ALL of the "FACTS", and not just the ones that you selectively choose. Because it would lead to more constructive discussion, and less meaningless banter. Because it would cause each person to choose their words a little more wisely. Because it would create more unity here, and less Partisan division -and we ALL know how well Partisan division works, just look at our government. I'm willing to bet that my challenge will begin and die with this post! And even if it is ever-so-briefly entertained, it won't last very long. That'll be proof enough to me that people don't want solutions and much as they just want something juicy to bitch about! To them I say: grow up, and get a life!

[Wow]

[quote]Conservative wind, Jotown? I really have to take my hat off to C.M. for standing by what he believes even though he faces such broad opposition. Some of the liberal arguments I've read (and I haven't read THAT many) range from well thought out, to totaly wacked-out. I respect anyone who can stand by their beliefs even if it means taking some heat. And actually, C.M. seems to hold his own against everyone else. [/quote]Thank you, I am posting what I believe and most of the people in this forum cant stand it. Just look at GT3 and what he/she posted above. GT3 had not been anywhere in this conversation but put some stuff about me being a racist(total bullshit). The reason gt3 did this is because I have gone at it with him/her before and gt3 has an agenda to fuck with me . The post above proves it.

[Gtoledo3]

I'm not disagreeing with you this time, C.M.

[Wow]

Why did you post something referring to me as a racist?

[Gtoledo3]

If I'm being oversensitive, excuse me. I've never seen anyone feel the need to abbreviate the word japanese in quite the way that you did. If it's something I'm just ignorant of, sorry.

[Wow]

Can we now kiss and make up? :D

[Wow]

[quote] I challenge you to find something good to say about the Party, or the Politician you dislike [/quote]I really think deep down Jimmy Carter means well with the stuff he is doing.

[mikegrijak]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] I challenge you to find something good to say about the Party, or the Politician you dislike [/quote]I really think deep down Jimmy Carter means well with the stuff he is doing.[/b][/quote]I guess this is now the time to come out in favor of the National Right-to-Work act? We as Americans must retain the freedom and due choice to either join or not join a labor union as a precondition to get or hold a job. Any Job. Agree? Disagree? Where do you all see this going? If america went 100% union, would we not be able to feed our families unless we genuflect at the alter of James P. Hoffa 8 times a day? Nay! and Nay again!

[Deathtoallwhoopposeme]

IF you are not a Blind Idiot you already know this about the Republicans.....Unfortunately those among us are in the Minority...This country is in severe trouble...

[whitefang]

This is great. With what's been happening in the realm of personal freedoms, and the recent encroachment of those freedoms by a federal appeals court, all you schmucks can argue about is taxes. You have allowed yourself to fall into the very trap government conservatives want you to. Takes the mind off the really slimy stuff, and diverts the attention. Monday, a special three-judge panel overturned a May decision by the secret Foriegn Intelligence Surveilance court that certain surveillance provisions in the USA Patriot Act infringed on citizen's privacy. This essentially means the government will face fewer hurdles when it seeks to listen to telephone conversations and read e-mails involving people "suspected" of espionage or terrorist activity. Intelligence agencies and and criminal prosecuters will also be able to share data more freely. While many armchair patriots will hail this as a useful tool in the dicovery and apprehension of terrorists, bear in mind the government now has the means to circumvent judicial oversight, and the freedom to use the excuse of seeking terrorist information while poking their noses into the privacy of otherwise uninvolved citizens. The agency might not have any use for the information it gleens from someone's e-mail and phone calls in the "war" on terrorism, but now can shuttle that information to other agencies who would otherwise need to adhear to stricter judicial oversight and regulations to otherwise tap your phones and raid your e-mail files. And as there has been increasing practices of people being held without charge, set bail and formal arraignment, the police-state this ruling seems fitted for is closer than you might think. The fact that the surrender and shackling of our constitutional rights are foregone in the name of "Homeland Security" betrays a more heinous adgenda. In the past, we have been able to enjoy these constitutional rights without political molestation in the face of far more dangerous threats to our homeland safety and security. For many decades, we have faced the threat of enemies far superior in terms of weaponry, military might and strategic intuition than is posed by the dreaded Al Qaeda. And the now proposed freedom given the government in homeland spying on it's citezens was never felt to be a needed option to maintain protection of the American people. So, why now the need? Let's not hear any crap about how diabolical the muslim mind is, or the recent influx of Arabic immigration poses a threat due to not knowing who the real enemy is, or who really came to be a part of this nation. How many of you can honestly say they can tell, by looking, the difference between a soviet spy or the guy that works at the shoe store. Can you really tell on sight who is a red chinese agent, or the cook at the Red Dragon Buffet? I bet not. And don't try to claim we're playing a different game now with the kind of terrorist tactics muslim extremists use in the practice of their craft. If you honestly believe they are using anything new to terrorist practices, or that whatever they do has never before been done in the history of man, then I envy you. Such blissful ignorance is rarely found outside the realm of advanced Alzhiemer's or senile dementia. But go ahead. Argur about who pays what tax rate. The FBI would get a good laugh at whatever you write to this website. You now know they'll be reading it along with your "private" e-mail. Give them a good show, will you? Whitefang

[GZsound]

Real interesting how the volume starts to get shrill when the libereral community finds an opening. Usually instead of a dialogue we get name calling. Every year more and more of our personal information is avaliable to more agencies and private individuals. Attorneys already have access to huge amounts of information about us and don't need your permission to check your credit, your mortgage, your bank, your driving records, etc. You are worried about lack of Judicial review? If anybody really wanted to know everything about you right now, the information is available unless you live in a hut with no electricity, no public utilities of any kind, no phone and certainly no computer. Since you are already posting to the internet....you're already to late.

[Salyphus]

[quote]Originally posted by GZsound@hotmail.com: [b] Every year more and more of our personal information is avaliable to more agencies and private individuals. Attorneys already have access to huge amounts of information about us and don't need your permission to check your credit, your mortgage, your bank, your driving records, etc. You are worried about lack of Judicial review? If anybody really wanted to know everything about you right now, the information is available unless you live in a hut with no electricity, no public utilities of any kind, no phone and certainly no computer. Since you are already posting to the internet....you're already to late.[/b][/quote]So what do you recommend as a solution to this problem, Mark?

[Jotown]

[quote]Personally, I'm probably more guilty of placing a little too much blind-faith in our leaders. That's not a good thing. But consider those who hold too much blind-cynicism. Is it any better? [/quote]Both positions are flawed. The truth is in the middle path. Conservative rhetoric is no different from Liberal rhetoric. I rarely post on these political threads because I know that nobody is going to change anyones mind here. They are just going to argue. To me for the most part it is a waste of time, and breath. I think I will break wind now. :p

[remainanon]

I'll do it once and once only. The problem with the current "conservatism" (this thread excepted) is that so many of those who espouse conservative views are totally without honor and are so clearly just after their place at the big trough. The problem with the current "liberal" folk is they just don't seem to realize that if you don't win the election, having a point, or even being right, doesn't mean shit. Honorable right, effective left. Small "c", small "l". That's what's missing these days. This from a small "l" liberal who respects the honorable right. Both animals are virtually instinct. JW

[Wow]

I hear a lot of bitchin about the gov. and our liberties, what do YOU suggest we do? I have read no solutions, only complaints. What liberties have we lost in the last couple of years?

[Wrave]

I posted the original message because the current administration keeps saying to the effect that "these are extraordinary times and the demand extraordinary measures", they imply that I am not a "patriot" if I disagree with their dictatorial stance on "protecting the republic" even while they smash principals long standing and hard won by the founding fathers of this country. I am tired of it and I am tired of politics in general. Somehow "the economy" as an entity has grown to replace "the people" as the guiding beacon of this country under this administration. I believe this is not only wrong but it is despicable. To afford "business" the protections that once were the "right" of every individual citizen is a heinous perversion of the basic tenets of this democratic government. As far as our "elections" go where we see that the greater portion of our voters vote for Republican leadership, there are only two ways to view this, either they are in the top income brackets or they are "wanna be's". Now, if I could I'd rather be rich, I don't blame them, but if they are gullible enough to believe that the richest are gonna let 'em in the club then they are as much a part of this scheme (as dupes) as the big boys that have most recently managed to wrest the steering wheel of government away from the populous. Vote republican if you believe Big Business ought to replace Big Government. Vote Democratic if you think that it's time to turn the direction of this country back around and put the control back into the hands of the people. Corporate America is not accountable. And this administration is very busy handing out loopholes. I think it's shameful.

[Wow]

You have a very strange way of looking at things. If you think that the Dems represent the average man, then where have you been for the last 20 years ? They are as big business as anybody. [quote] Vote republican if you believe Big Business ought to replace Big Government. Vote Democratic if you think that it's time to turn the direction of this country back around and put the control back into the hands of the people. [/quote]This is total B.S. The republicans want smaller government and the Dems want a HUGH government. How is this putting it back in the hands of the people? [quote] Corporate America is not accountable. And this administration is very busy handing out loopholes. I think it's shameful. [/quote]be spacific please. [quote] As far as our "elections" go where we see that the greater portion of our voters vote for Republican leadership, there are only two ways to view this, either they are in the top income brackets or they are "wanna be's". [/quote]Have you ever thought that people like his leadership and want someone to fight for our country and not put special interest first,ie lawyers.

[Franknputer]

The Republicans don't want smaller government - just different agencies.

[Jotown]

[quote]Somehow "the economy" as an entity has grown to replace "the people" as the guiding beacon of this country under this administration. I believe this is not only wrong but it is despicable.[/quote]Well said. This is not a particulaly republlcan notion, but rather a reflection of the greed and consumerism that defines the curnent mindset of America. Money is God in our country now. It is what we worship. Our leaders, for better or worse, reflect this reality.

[robmix]

[quote]Originally posted by wrave: [b] Vote republican if you believe Big Business ought to replace Big Government. Vote Democratic if you think that it's time to turn the direction of this country back around and put the control back into the hands of the people. [/b][/quote]I'm sorry but that's an extremely narrow minded view of poiltics in general and one of the many reasons that I rarely participate in political debates. The mentality that one party is at fault for current conditions is ignorant, and to blindly vote for anyone based solely on their political party affiliation is just plain naive. Our lives are much more complicated than any one party could possibly represent. I have yet to see one politician since I've been old enough to vote who represented my view of the economy and environment. Rob

[Wrave]

I cannot argue that any one party has found "the way" or has all of the answers. This world is just too complex and the best anyone can do is to use their God given gift of intellect and spend some time weighing the options. But, no matter how you look at it, a vote for a country "of the money, by the money and for the money" is a vote against human issues. I will not defend that statement, it needs no defense. So all who are sitting there ready to type out "Oh yeah, give us specifics!" can save your energy. Here is a link to a transcript of [url=http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_gunland.html]a recent TV program aired on PBS[/url] . It illustrates succinctly the bizarre behavior of the Republican administration. How can we as citizens of this country put any faith in leadership that exhibits such irrational thinking and behavior? And who recommended the appointment of Ashcroft and bullied him through the house and senate into his office?

[Wow]

[quote] But, no matter how you look at it, a vote for a country "of the money, by the money and for the money" is a vote against human issues. I will not defend that statement, it needs no defense. So all who are sitting there ready to type out "Oh yeah, give us specifics!" can save your energy. [/quote]God help us all if we should ask you for spacifics. We would not want that.

[SFOracle]

C.M. wrote: [quote] What liberties have we lost in the last couple of years? [/quote]Do you mean what liberties have you or I personally lost in the last couple of years? If that is what you mean, I would say none. But if you mean all Americans, or people legally residing in the United States, then I would have to say certain people have lost a lot. Americans, foreign nationals, resident aliens and permanent residents or middle eastern descent have been annonymously detain (arrested) and held (imprisioned) without charges. Other have been subjected to interviews (interrogations) or had their mail searched and phones taped. Three medical students have had their residences canceled at a Florida hospital because (encouraged by the Bush administration) a nosey old lady said she heard them planning to bomb a building. Turns out they were talking about bringing a car down from Chicago to Florida. Under the patriot act, if you are labled (accused, not convicted) as a terrorist, then even your conversations with your attourney can be recorded. What happened to due process? But I guess this is all okay as long as it is not happening to you. A fundamental principal of our way of life is that liberty and equality are equal. If everyone's liberty is not protected then no one is free.

[Wow]

[quote]Do you mean what liberties have you or I personally lost in the last couple of years? If that is what you mean, I would say none [/quote]Thank you for a honest answer. finally. [quote] Americans, foreign nationals, resident aliens and permanent residents or middle eastern descent have been annonymously detain (arrested) and held (imprisioned) without charges. [/quote]If I remember correctly, this is the way the 9-11 hijackers got into the country(aliens), if the gov. had not detained these people then you would say that they are not doing anything to protect us. [quote] Three medical students have had their residences canceled at a Florida hospital because (encouraged by the Bush administration) a nosey old lady said she heard them planning to bomb a building. Turns out they were talking about bringing a car down from Chicago to Florida. [/quote]I dont remember the Prez. doing anything with this. The FBI checked these guys out because they were fuckin with a lady at lunch. The media ran with this story and blew it up big time. How is this losing our freedoms?

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] But, no matter how you look at it, a vote for a country "of the money, by the money and for the money" is a vote against human issues. I will not defend that statement, it needs no defense. So all who are sitting there ready to type out "Oh yeah, give us specifics!" can save your energy. [/quote]God help us all if we should ask you for spacifics. We would not want that.[/b][/quote]For those of you interested in specific reporting of money at the expense of human rights being an ignored but driving factor in the Bush administration's current increase of hostilities worldwide, as well as supression of non-affluent citizens domestically - VP Cheney's ties: http://www.icij.org/dtaweb/icij_bow.asp?Section=Chapter&ChapNum=2&Page=2 http://www.sfbg.com/36/31/cover_soldiersoffortune.html Bush I's most obvious defense spending tie, The Carlyle Group: http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html Here's a good page showing the incestuous relationship to Bush I's Carlyle Group and several of the corporations recently in need of Govt' help to protect illegally siphoned money from employees and shareholders. http://www.hereinreality.com/news/axis.html Man, this just scratches the surface, this stuff goes on and on... Let's not pretend it doesn't happen, OK? We'll all be better off in the long run with some reality in the discussion. Best, Dogfur

[alphajerk]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b]What liberties have we lost in the last couple of years?[/b][/quote]well, i lost the liberty to buy beer over 6%ALC. that REALLY sucks because my favorite beer happens to all be 8% or higher. its more like drinking a wine for me than pounding a case of pabst to most rednecks. i lost the liberty to see my wife off at the gate to an airport [of which i am doing today]... so my son and i cant waive goodbye and watch her plane take off anymore.

[Franknputer]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] Americans, foreign nationals, resident aliens and permanent residents or middle eastern descent have been annonymously detain (arrested) and held (imprisioned) without charges. [/quote]If I remember correctly, this is the way the 9-11 hijackers got into the country(aliens), if the gov. had not detained these people then you would say that they are not doing anything to protect us. [/b][/quote]That's a very presumptuous statement, to assume what others would be thinking and saying - and besides, it ignores the fact that it's not just visiting aliens, but [i]residents and citizens of the US[/i] that this is happening to. Ethnic and religious profiling cannot be deemed acceptable just because you don't happen to fit the profile.