Create a score like John Williams

[propel]

If you were to use the sounds off a keyboard/synth to record a score (orchestral) for a movie, etc. which keyboard/synth would you use?

[jlsy]

From the pieces and bites of info I read/saw, those movie scoring pros often use multiple sound sources rather than from a particular, singular synth/keyboard, since the best orchestral samples are available in different forms (i.e., a Roland SRX/SR-JV expansion board, or a Korg/Yamaha expansion card, or a 800MB Gigasampler bank on your harddrive, an AKAI sample CD, etc.) and for sophisticated recording/editing required for quality string/orchestral production one would use a computer-based, graphic MIDI software rather than an onboard sequencer.

 

Joe

[propel]

Question then to follow-up:

 

1) Let's say I'm not looking to create professional quality scores to sell, I just want to have as realistic sounding instruments for each track in my Mac - Logic composition... what would you use/buy? (keyboards (what I play), a software program, etc..))

[Jonathan Hughes]

Check out the Film Scoring issue of Keyboard (I can't remember what isue it was, but it was within the last year, and James Newton Howard is on the cover). They have a buyer's guide to orchestral samples, cards, and modules.

 

The Roland stuff is always really good. The E-MU Virtuoso module seems decent. But the best (and most expensive) option is probably a sampler, and a collection of orchestral sound libraries. There are a lot of great libraries out there, and they have for more samples (and larger ones) than a sound module would.

[etherize]

I would suggest getting the EXS sampler for Logic and buying one of the giga libraries...you can get the player version of EXS for very cheap or if you already have a soft sampler you can also get a crossgrade to Kontact (list is $230) but as of now contact will only read giga format from ram while exs will stream from hard disc.

[Jotown]

How do you creat scores like John Williams?

Easy, get a comlete orchestra, and a shitload of talent. Thats what he does.

 

Oh yea, he also gets over a million dollars per film.

[jlsy]

Speaking of a good Gigasampler string/orchestra library (yet definitely not to my budget!):

 

http://www.sonicimplants.com/Strings/index.asp

 

SoundFont is a value alternative as well.

[Bobro]

Listen to everything Korngold did 1,000 times, throw in some Wagner without really understanding the fundamental concepts...dude you're set.

[Mark Zeger]

Originally posted by Bobro:

Listen to everything Korngold did 1,000 times, throw in some Wagner without really understanding the fundamental concepts...dude you're set.

Too funny...I was thinking about Korngold when I first saw the topic.

 

One important tip is to avoid playing section parts as chords. Build sections out of single lines using individual sounds from different sources. I did this recently for a big band arrangement of a jingle. I wrote and recorded Trumpet 1/2/3/4, Alto 1/2, Tenor 1/2, etc., using samples from different sources (Kurzweil K2500, Quantum Leap Brass CD-ROM, Proteus 2000, and Gigasampler) until I had a 12 piece horn section. The sense of individual phrasing and articulation made a huge difference.

[chris c]

There are quite a few modules out there with good orchestral and other "real" instrument sounds (including guitars, keys, basses, etc.) that would work for the purposes you describe. The EMU Proteus 2000 (or 2500 now), with or without virtuoso ROM added would give you a lot of mileage I think (I have a P2k). The Roland JV-1010 is supposed to be a solid budget priced module (1/2 rack) with excellent sounds (but tradeoff is limited programability w/o a computer). Another option would be the XP-30 keyboard. It has all the sounds from the JV series modules, plus the session, orchestral (!) and techno expansion cards. Again, I have one, and would think it would makea an excellent part of a "scoring" arsenal, for personal enjoyment. Don't own one, but I'd bet Triton rack would be a good option. There are many options ...

 

Of course, lots of the Hollywood guys are going the route of soft-samplers these days ... got a powerful computer?

 

Chris

[schmoron13]

I just got the triton rack a couple of weeks ago and it would suit your purpose very well..the only drawback is that it's a bit pricey ($1500), but the sounds are great. The Roland JV5080 is about the same, with cleaner (unprocessed) sounds, but the layout is more confusing, it's a bit more expensive (around 1700-1800) and you need to tweak the sounds to blend into a mix well.

[Dan South]

If you have the cash for an entire system and the time to learn how to use it, the Gigasampler is probably your best be. Short of that, I like the sounds on the Roland orchestral expansion boards, and there's lots of variety there, too. A Triton would not be my first choice for orchestral sounds because it has a machine-like quality to the output - fine for rock, techno, etc. but not for orchestral emulations. I tried a Virtuoso 2000 and sent it back; your mileage may vary.

 

But by far the most important factor in how the score will sound is how you compose and arrange the music. If you want to sound like a knock-off of a famous composer, listen to their music for fourteen hours a day until you know it inside out. Every composer learned from some other composer when they started out, even Mozart who learned from his father. Just don't let the final product sound like a rip-off, or you may face a nasty lawsuit.

[propel]

how about using a Kurzweil PC2X instead of the Triton for the sounds (at least "initially")?

[Synthguy]

What mzeger said, and everyone else, sort of.

 

I can't stress enough how far you can stretch basic rom sounds of these new synths, be they Triton, Roland arsenal, Yamaha, Kurz or whatever, by treating the synth like an ensemble. For a big full on string part, take an orchestral sound, play each note of the melody individually, overdubbing each note of the "chord." Then go back and add solo violins, cellos, violas, and other instruments as you see fit, playing no chords but adding one line at a time. If you have another synth or sampler, incorporate sounds from it, as the different timber and character of samples from different synths will add to the richness and realism. Getting hold of an orchestral score is quite instructive, as they will toss in flutes, clarinets, all sorts of instruments to the mix to soften sound or add body or character. Those old composers were in some ways the first synthesists, almost treating the instruments as harmonic components.