what's wrong with e-mu modules?

[Max Ventura]

what is wrong with e-mu modules and keys?

Being a major dealer in my country, I have made tons of special offers on e-mu gear, even convincing the importer to sell off some items that weren't moving with extra bonuses and such, but, believe me or not, ANY E-MU MODULE I SELL ALMOST ALWAYS COMES BACK FOR EXCHANGE with something Roland or whatever.

Is it in the sounds? People tell me they're weak. I can't agree to that.

Is it in the interface? Maybe, because it's laid out in a very '80s style, even now that they have knobs on.

Is it in the internal architecture? Maybe that, too, which is downright confusing, and lenghty as hell.

But what can that be, really?

And the Proteus keyboards, all 4 of them including the Halo: I sold 2 of them in all!

And the grooveboxes? 2, no more!

What the heck? E-mu's really unlucky here.

[Bobro]

Originally posted by argomax:

what is wrong with e-mu modules and keys?

Being a major dealer in my country, I have made tons of special offers on e-mu gear, even convincing the importer to sell off some items that weren't moving with extra bonuses and such, but, believe me or not, ANY E-MU MODULE I SELL ALMOST ALWAYS COMES BACK FOR EXCHANGE with something Roland or whatever.

Is it in the sounds? People tell me they're weak. I can't agree to that.

Is it in the interface? Maybe, because it's laid out in a very '80s style, even now that they have knobs on.

Is it in the internal architecture? Maybe that, too, which is downright confusing, and lenghty as hell.

But what can that be, really?

And the Proteus keyboards, all 4 of them including the Halo: I sold 2 of them in all!

And the grooveboxes? 2, no more!

What the heck? E-mu's really unlucky here.

First thing that comes to mind is the presets- how contempo are they? I imagine that a combination of groovy demo sequence with presets that aren't spot on or very easily tweaked into the sounds of the latest hits would create exactly the phenomenon you're describing.

 

-Bobro

[K.C.]

I think it is because E-mu modules lack the compatibility with GM not like the GS from Roland and XG from Yamaha. E-mu really not selling well in my country too ( not US, it is Malaysia). But I still prefer E-mu a lot since a lot of people use Korg, Roland etc ..(japanese product), I just don't want to sound the same with the other musicians.

 

However, E-mu's module really trigger a lot of my creativity. I think those are more like synths, not some modules that only play back preset sounds.

 

I guess other choose Roland or Korg is because of their good default presets. Using E-mu, I always end up with all my own edited presets in my songs.

[aeon]

See my response in this thread in Craigs forum.

[trailermusic]

Two word answer: thin sounds.

[RABid]

How many times can you repackage the Mo-Phat ROM and expect it to sell? Mo-Phat. Mo-Phat Studio. MP-7. MPK.

 

Other than that I think the problem is more with sounds that make a new keyboardist go "Wow" than with usable sounds. Korg and Roland program presets where one note sounds like a complete song mix. Nice, but not really usable. E-mu sounds sit well in a mix. However, youn musicians will take "wow" over mix any day. When their ears and experience matures then they will be more likely to pick up an E-mu. Scan articles in Keyboard mag and look at the gear setup for most studio's or musicians featured in the mag and you will see at least one E-mu in the rack.

 

Robert

[zvenx]

I agree with trailermusic....

I find the sound thin compared to the roland and korg..........

 

I however like their interface more than any others.....at least to set multitimbral setups they are a breeze....

[chris c]

Originally posted by argomax:

what is wrong with e-mu modules and keys?

Nothing! Except maybe what Rabid suggested ... they have less "instant" one-note type appeal? Its funny that this post appears now. Just this week, I've been scrolling back through the presets on my Proteus 2k and noticing how many high quality and eminently useable sounds are in this box. I love it.

 

But, that's me .. and I live in Georgia, so not sure how much my opinion is relevant or responsive to your specific query!

Chris

[aeon]

Another side has now been posted in this thread .

[Bobro]

Strangely enough I was just listening to an "underground" CD done almost entirely with a Morpheus. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

-Bobro

[aeon]

both the Morpheus and the UltraProteus are awesome boxes if you are a true die-hard programmer.

[a-sharp]

Hey yall,

 

zzounds.com has the proteus keys series for only $600.00 including a free ROM! That's more than half off the list price for a supposedly brand new model line! I mean, a ROM card alone almost runs you $300.00. Guess all you guys are right. Consumers don't want anymore rebadged gear. It's time for something a little more innovative.

 

Aaron

[Felix_dup1]

Yeah - everyone dropped their prices on the E-MU keyboards this week. Actually, it's a great deal.

 

Still surprised that they didn't include the sequencer (a la the MP-7 and XL-7) on the keyboards, though!

 

Or it might have been interesting if they'd loaded up the ROM - include Proteus, MoPhatt, and XL soundset, and sell the keyboard for more money (kind of like a Roland XP30 strategy).

[RABid]

WOW. Basically, buy two ROM's get the keybaord free, as long as one of the ROM's you want comes in a keyboard version. I have wanted the Mo'Phat ROM. This makes me really consider it. The keyboard is small enough to sit on my computer table and replace the Oxygen 8.

 

Robert

[mildbill]

i think aeon summed it up well in the other thread.

i recently bought a proteus 2500 and returned it. it was my first emu module.

 

my reasons? -

 

it had a very weak output, even when internally boosted.

 

for my purposes, i found the majority of the sounds in the composer set pretty crappy. too many scratches, squeals, yelps, and sounds that i considered a waste of space.

 

the effect section needs work.

 

i also agree about the filters - all those options are nice, but for some sounds you just want a strong basic filter.

 

i must admit, i didn't give it a fair chance, i only kept it a few days - i got it mostly because of the programming options available - i think it's second only to kurzweil in that area - i just couldn't see myself living with it for the long haul.

[Stephen Fortner]

I had a Proteus 2000 for a week or so and returned it. I thought some of the sounds were OK... the piano was abysmal.

 

My beef was that with any percussive sound, like a piano or plucked guitar, the MIDI latency was audibly BAD. More than a six-voice chord and you could really hear all the notes come in at different times. Full two-handed block chords were unplayable.

 

I take issue with both Emu and Roland for continually repackaging the same basic sound set. I know a lot of people love the XV-5080, for example, but in so many ways it's still a JV-xx80.

[Sergievsky]

Strange, I think the midi latency in the P2k is very good- it's the Roland stuff that's horrendous. I also find the second midi port very useful for live as well as studio use. But yeah, the composer rom set sucks. It should have come with a second or even third rom included.

[meccajay]

Yep, the latency is great on my P2K as well, better than almost everything in the studio. The composer set has it's drawbacks and strengths, I mean if you really want warm rich pianos and strings....get an XV-5050 for around the same price. If you want hot ass synth basses, leads, and drum kits, and occasional E piano, get a P2k. Easy peasy!

 

Also, I think I noted in Craig's forum emu thread that the sounds from these Proteus boxes are widely recognizable in most Urban, Electronica and Dance HITS. With these types of music, you cannot turn on the radio without hearing a Triton, a P2K/MoPhatt, or an MPC. This is a box made for power, not for quiet nuances. There are much better boxes for subtlety.

 

All in all, it's not bad for less than a grand, In fact, quite good actually. Compare that to the price of a Triton or MPC....Not bad at all.

[RABid]

(sigh)

 

Looks like most online stores removed the information about the free ROM with purchase of an E-mu keyboard. With some digging I found the qualifier on the E-mu site.

 

Buy a PK-6, XK-6, MK-6 or Halo Keyboard over US$800.

 

Pay 800 for the keyboard get a ROM free. Pay $600 for the keyboard and don't get a free ROM. I wonder what happens if you trade in something? Oh well. There goes my desire. My GAS has passed.

 

Robert

[Felix_dup1]

not cool.

[aeon]

the XL-7 was a much better buy for me than the keys...

 

$769 (after current $200 rebate) got me a Turbo engine (128-voice), much better control surface, nice form factor, some good-feeling pads, and a nice sequencer to boot.

 

I moved over the TSCY ROM from my XL-1, and it was off and running.

 

anyone interested in buying a minty XL-1 at a good price?

[Sergievsky]

Someone from the P2K list said he wrote Emu and they said to ignore what zzounds said, and that they'll still honor the ROM upgrade. Don't know, might be worth an email to Emu.

[tenthplanet]

Interesting thread. On three ocassions, in two different stores, I have tried out a PK-6 and have come to the conclusion that not enough mult-samples have been devoted to the keyboard and orchestral type of sounds and there is a strange modulation type of thing going on with most of the ensemple sounds. The other thing is the overall sound is somewhat recessed and lacking in presence. I was very dissapointed as I really wanted like it. ( The keyboard felt good and the wheels were nice ) I thought maybe my take on the sound was just me; maybe it isn't. Darn.

[Sergievsky]

I think they really need to make better presets, presets that show what its strengths are. When it tries to emulate either a real instrument or a Roland or Korg synth that's when I go "this sucks". But, and I think someone mentioned it, when in the mix, a lot of the patches are great. The presence is there, but not the shimmer. Gotta get a different rom for that, or roll your own. I guess it kinda reminds me of hi-fi speakers, with the Rolands and the Korgs knowing how to get that sizzle for the 2minute floor audition. The p2k is still useful though, and I think the 2nd midi in port is really great.

[realtrance]

I have an Audity 2000 which I still love. I agree with all the points made in this thread -- cheap interface, cheap effects engine, nothing like the sophisticated multi-sample architecture in the Roland JV/XV line -- but I also highly appreciate the "pseudo-modular" Patchcord architecture and the Z-plane filters.

 

As with any kind of synth, you really need to get intimate with something like the A2k, and if you like to program and understand what the "filter morphing" is all about, and don't expect auto-magic, there are things you can do with E-Mu's across-the-board synth architecture you simply can't do with other synths.

 

BUT: challenging programming interface, great-but-unusual synth sounds (on A2K) or don't-leap-out-at-you bread and butter (on all the rest), weak analogue I/O (A2K fortunately has S/PDIF), all the things aeon said a year ago, kill the E-Mu line for the vast majority out there who are primarily buy-and-play in orientation.

 

And, one thing I think is a contradiction in the presentation the E-Mu stuff offers. They stuff you with thousands of PCM-based patches, and then give you a comparatively cramped interface to program on. This tends to lead naturally to excessive "patch-touring" instead of digging in and programming, and I _always_ find myself dissatisfied if I spend a lot of time touring around lots of other people's work. You have this temptation of "thousands of patches," combined with an interface which makes it tough just to select the 4 elements/waveforms to start off with on your own patch, and you're constantly weighing, "well, I could spend 2 hours creating this one patch, or half-an-hour touring -- I'll tour."

 

I've learned over the years of using the A2K that there are a specific range of patches which I turn to either as starting-points or check-points for particular ideas ("oh yeah, that buzz-thump sound I'm trying to make, "Scuzzy LFO" sounds something like, let's see what filters and waveforms they used.. hmmm.... ok..." etc.). I write this stuff down, roll my own and I'm happy.

 

But it is much like the process you'd use with a modular synth -- lots of study and note-taking and step-by-step design -- rather than with a real-time "performance" synth -- which is, I assume, why E-Mu tried out the Command Stations etc. SO: you have these cheap-looking modules with cramped interfaces, which suggest buy-and-play, but a software architecture that rivals a Nord Modular for potential depth and complexity. Cognitive dissonance, as we used to say in the '70's.

 

The new keyboards simply look like glorified Casios, unfortunately -- that's just a marketing issue but the design _screams_ "cheap" and that's another negative to contend with.

 

I don't know, I think this next year's going to be tough on the whole electronic music industry, sigh.... just hope the best can find a way to stick around...

 

Combine all of the above w/the fact that E-Mu now has to fight the PC in the world of samplers, and they're in for a tough ride, particularly if their Singapore masters get too bottom-line oriented. Best of luck to the talented folks in the company.

 

rt

[Synthguy]

I second almost everything realtrance said. It's been my experience that past E-mu waves were way too midrangey. They sat in a mix really well but they sounded cheezy, they lacked bass, and they didn't have that shimmer or sizzle other units had. Maybe it was the effects too, which the E-mus didn't have. I really love the Vintage Keys and the Audity, and the new stuff does sound like the best line up ever. But I did scratch my head when surfing the new E-mus that there were SO many pianos that sounded... well, like the same patch repeated 20 times. And these "new" units really are the same thing with the same roms and maybe even the same patches. The effects are weak too. Roland can repackage because they do go the extra mile and re-engineer things with the synth engine re-coded, additional waves, better dacs and effects and so on. Roland really does need to revive some of their older technology, like the JD-990. It's a beast, you can't hardly touch it! A 990 element in a new synth - not just the waves - would be greatly appreciated.

 

I think Emu just needs more diverse sounds under those buttons. You can only go so far with the ten millionth Rhodes or 303 bass patch, ya know.

[aeon]

synthguy said:

Roland really does need to revive some of their older technology, like the JD-990. It's a beast, you can't hardly touch it! A 990 element in a new synth - not just the waves - would be greatly appreciated.

Cool, another Roland JD-990 diehard! Heaven knows I will never sell mine...those filters and that tone. Ive got the Vintage board inside and the Strings wave card in the front slot. Life is good.

[Synthguy]

Gadzooks my lady! That's close to my own unit. The venerable JD is one of those synths that has something really unique in it's synth engine. It's just incredible.

 

I'd be really pleased if you have some music up on a site in mp3 form, and point out how you use your synths in each track. I spent quite a bit of time in the Keyboard Corner of mp3.com, and am just about ready to download Craig Anderton's and Nels' latest before bed. I'm juust getting into my own project, and ran into some quite bizarre trouble getting a unit shipped here - it went thru a little time warp in which it bounced around aimlessly for a solid week - but I'm ready to glue myself to the music throne for some creativity now.