evp88 vs lounge lizard

[Mattloc]

I was thinking of calling this post "Attack of the Rhodes Clones," but i decided against it...

 

Anyway, I'm a big rhodes freak, so I got pretty excited when I heard about this physical

modeling stuff. I listened to both programs, and I think I like the lounge lizard better. The

EVP88 just sounds a little cheesy to me. I'm fairly sure, but I was wondering if I could

employ some other ears for a second opinion.

 

Which (side of the force) wins?

 

matt

[progfusion74]

I haven't heard either, but when it comes to music, "Follow your ear and thou shalt find what you are looking for"

 

prog

[steadyb]

Herbie Hancock is using the EVP88 on tour. He doesn't seem to find it cheesy. But then again, is he really qualified to judge an electric piano sound???

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by steadyb:

Herbie Hancock is using the EVP88 on tour. He doesn't seem to find it cheesy. But then again, is he really qualified to judge an electric piano sound???

Yeah, it's not like it's Chick or anyone.

 

- Jeff

[synthetic]

If you think it's cheezy, don't buy it. If it sounds cheezy today, it will sound like Planet Velveeta tomorrow.

 

p.s. Herbie has been resembling a large Cheeto himself lately...

[Bobro]

Originally posted by steadyb:

Herbie Hancock is using the EVP88 on tour. He doesn't seem to find it cheesy. But then again, is he really qualified to judge an electric piano sound???

Hehe, steadyb you card, you. Herbie Hancock wouldn't happen to be playing the EVP88 through some kind of amplification for those concerts, would he?

 

Mattloc- softsynths are usually judged alone, but that's not necessarily the best approach. Just like any synth, effects and amplification are a part of the sound. For example a synth, soft or hard, that sounds "phatt" in its presets may turn out to have a sad little chicken-bone skeleton once you turn off its onboard delays, etc., and one that sounds hard and thin alone may be plump and delicious in the real world of amplification and in the mix.

 

I haven't heard either of these Rhodes emulations, but be sure to try them in different ways and in the mix- you may find that one of them through some kind of amp modelling plugin really blossoms, for example.

 

-Bobro

[Stephen Fortner]

Yo, steadyb and other Rhodesaholics.

 

In terms of trying to really model what's going on when a hammer hits that queer little tone rod inside a Rhodes piano, I think the EVP-88 is one sincere pumpkin patch. I like the Lizard too. Having played both, and owning a real Rhodes which I play through an MXR Phase 90, Karl Martin compressor, and TC stereo chorus pedal, I can see why a really critical listener might label either as "too digital", "too perfect", "sterile", etc.

 

But the fact is, once you've played one of these modelled EP's, try going back and making due with a velocity-switched sample from a ROMpler, pretty much the only other option for live gigging. (OK, so you could be packing a K-2500, Akai, or a racked PC with GIga, and load up a 64MB eight-way switched Rhodes. Anyone know anybody who is?) I bet you'll want to rip your own ears off with your bare hands, all the while thinking "That Van Gogh was a wimp for using a razor"

 

I would think that using the EVP and running your outputs through a decent tube pre or DI, which is gain-staged so it'll introduce some subtlle even-order harmonic distortionright about the same time that the model sees as warranting "barking" would be DAMNED convincing in a mix. So muxh so that if you're recording, you wouldn't feel like a total poseur for not having the real deal, and if you're live, avoiding the wear and tear on your Rhodes, as well as your back, would be more than justified.

 

Jeeeezis... can someone send Father Merrin over? I think I'm posessed by alphajerk tonight.

[RABid]

For many of us the answer to "evp88 vs lounge lizard" mayb be answered by the question, "Mac or PC?"

 

Robert

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by SteveFortner:

OK, so you could be packing a K-2500, Akai, or a racked PC with GIga, and load up a 64MB eight-way switched Rhodes. Anyone know anybody who is?

I do! But, then again, it's my job to know such things.

 

In any case, damn near everything sounds pretty damn good these days. We're getting rather picky as time goes by, and there's nothing wrong with that. But put into perspective, both of these modeled Rhodes are rather great.

 

But, like my pal Synthetic mentioned, cheese is as cheese does. If it's cheese to you now, it will never be less cheese in the future. Trust your cheese sense. Use the cheese force. Hear the cheese, be the cheese. Jake, it's Cheesytown.

 

Cheese! Oh...er...I mean, Cheers!

 

- Jeff

[Mattloc]

Thanks for the input.

Don't get me wrong, I think they both sound fantastic, especially for synths, but there is just something about the high end that just isn't quite right. That's where all the "cheese" is coming from, and I realized today that they both have similar sounds up top. Both bottoms and middles are beautiful.

I think the reason why the EVP88 amazes Herbie and leaves me wanting more is just history. He's been playing every sort of keyboard, synth, piano, etc. for the past half century or so, whereas I don't really know anything about keyboards. All I've really played is the piano at my house and my friend's old stage 73, so while he compares the evp to every mediocre attempt at synthesizing a rhodes for the last couple of decades, I just compare it to a rhodes. You have to excuse me, I'm extremely anal about sound quality.

Anyway, I realized that the difference I was hearing between the two was mainly due to grittier tones being used on the upper register in the lounge lizard samples, which gave the notes more body and thus a sweeter sound. Although I will certainly be using some dirt on occasion, I would still like to be able to use sweet, clean rhodes tones. So, finally to my question. There seem to be lots of options on both programs--will any of them help soften and round out those less smooth high notes?

 

Damn, I am long winded sometimes.

 

matt

[orangefunk]

I own a 1976 Rhodes and I've played the EVP 73 (dry!) and didn't really dig it. The Loung Lizard seems to be better from what I've heard.

 

Btw don't judge the EVP by what herbie says, the rhodes sound on the F2F isn't that good to me.. also his favorite keyboard is a Proteus One!

 

I think Herbies time on the rhodes has come and gone.. i really don't like his playing on F2F.. boring! if you've ever heard Herbie on the live LPs "Dedication" (1974), "Flood" (1975) or "In Concert Vol 2" (1973) you'll know what I mean....

 

Btw on the tours I've heard that the 2nd keyboardist has a suitcase rhodes (although I think its hidden somewhat).. so the EVP can't even replace the rhodes in that band.

[soapbox]

I have a question for those who are comparing the EVP88, EVP73, Lounge Lizard, and Rhodes pianos. Are you monitoring and A/B-ing all of them through the same setup?

 

Also, I don't believe that it's fair to make conclusions about the EVP88 based on experience with the EVP73 alone. The EVP73 lacks a lot of the best qualities of the EVP88.

 

Personally, I have heard the EVP88 a few times now, under trade show conditions. Although the conditions were less than ideal, I liked what I heard. I have yet to hear the Lounge Lizard though.

 

For those who prefer the grit of the Lounge Lizard to the more "clinical" EVP88, consider this: you can always add grit to any tone, but you can never take it away.

 

OTOH, if you don't have Logic Audio (and therefore can't use the EVP88), my guess is that the Lounge Lizard would win hands down over the EVP73.

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by soapbox:

 

Also, I don't believe that it's fair to make conclusions about the EVP88 based on experience with the EVP73 alone. The EVP73 lacks a lot of the best qualities of the EVP88..

Good point but most people I know don't run Logic unfortunately. Even Steffan the designer seemed to think it was a bad move to make a cut down version for VST...

 

Why can't they make these standalone anyway?? If I was gigging with a laptop the last thing I'd want is a program that needs to run within a program for it to work (Ok yeah I know Windows is a program so its always like that!!) that can only add to the possibilities of it going wrong.

[soapbox]

orangefunk, sorry for taking you to task on one of your first posts here. FWIW, I would also like to see the EVP88 made available to non-Logic users. I guess that Apple will be making those types of decisions for Emagic now. If so, I hope that they'll reverse that call. We can be virtually certain though that if they do, the new EVP88 will be for Mac only.

 

As long as I'm taking notice of new members, I would like to extend a warm welcome to both orangefunk and Mattloc. Feel free to tell us a little more about yourselves in this thread .

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[d-kay]

to make the EVP73 sound gritty you have to bang quite hard on the keys. velocities between 100-127 start to make the overdrive sound more present.