Does Anybody Play Live With Backing Sequences?

[R_dup1]

Does anybody here play live with backing sequences with their band? If so, how do you do it as far as sending click to the drummer, etc. Just curious as to how to use SMF's to get a fuller sound when playing live. Thanks for any feedback/help.

[Dan O]

I use SMF's for live play . But not with group .

Sorry ! dano

[R_dup1]

Hey Dano,

 

Where do you usually get your SMF's? I've been using Midi-Hits and they're generally pretty good, but there are some they don't have that I need. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

[Dan O]

Tran tracks is one company to consider .

 

I use sequences from the company I represent at NAMM ( Ketron) .

 

I use Tune 1000 midi sequences as well .

 

What kind of sequences are you looking for ?

 

dano/ketronguy

[Super 8]

My suggestion would be to give your drummer a headphone mix with a click track on it. Perhaps using a aux out from your keyboard for the click -something that won't go through the main speakers.

 

I can tell you this from my experience. If your drummer cannot hear the click very well, he won't be able to stay in time with the sequence. Seems simple enough, but I was quite surprised at what a difference just turning the click up a little made.

[Botch.]

R, my last band used to play with backing on about half the songs. I recorded my own SMFs using a Yamaha EX-5; the music all came out one of the stereo channels and the click out the other channel. The click went to a cheap Radio Shack amp, then to headphones the drummer wore, that way he could increase the volume as necessary.

 

Make sure to practice this a bit before trying it live. Playing to a click is a new skill that some drummers have a bit of trouble with at first. Good luck!

[RABid]

I used to long ago in a band in a band with DSears that never had a drummer. I did most of the sequencing at that time and we never purchased any pre-programmed songs. That was back in the DOS days when you programmed each note rather than play in a part. I think David still plays some with a sequencer so he could probably give you a good answer if he reads this.

 

Robert

[R_dup1]

Originally posted by dano:

Tran tracks is one company to consider .

 

I use sequences from the company I represent at NAMM ( Ketron) .

 

I use Tune 1000 midi sequences as well .

 

What kind of sequences are you looking for ?

 

dano/ketronguy

Thanks Dano,

 

I wish Tran Tracks had online delivery like MidiHits does! I'll check out Ketron and Tune 1000. So, do you have a Ketron board? If so, which one and how do you like it? I'm mainly looking for dance and swing type stuff.

 

Thanks again!

Roland

[R_dup1]

Originally posted by Super 8:

My suggestion would be to give your drummer a headphone mix with a click track on it. Perhaps using a aux out from your keyboard for the click -something that won't go through the main speakers.

 

I can tell you this from my experience. If your drummer cannot hear the click very well, he won't be able to stay in time with the sequence. Seems simple enough, but I was quite surprised at what a difference just turning the click up a little made.

Thanks Super8, we're using a Mackie 1604 VLZ mixer which has separate bus capabilities. I think I could run the click from an individual out on the keyboard into a channel on the mixer and then create a monitor mix for the drummer using one of the busses and then turn the click up to where he could hear it, does that make sense? Thanks for the tip!

[R_dup1]

Originally posted by iBotch:

R, my last band used to play with backing on about half the songs. I recorded my own SMFs using a Yamaha EX-5; the music all came out one of the stereo channels and the click out the other channel. The click went to a cheap Radio Shack amp, then to headphones the drummer wore, that way he could increase the volume as necessary.

 

Make sure to practice this a bit before trying it live. Playing to a click is a new skill that some drummers have a bit of trouble with at first. Good luck!

Thanks iBotch!

[R_dup1]

Originally posted by Rabid:

I used to long ago in a band in a band with DSears that never had a drummer. I did most of the sequencing at that time and we never purchased any pre-programmed songs. That was back in the DOS days when you programmed each note rather than play in a part. I think David still plays some with a sequencer so he could probably give you a good answer if he reads this.

 

Robert

Thanks Robert, glad we don't have to do it that way any more!

[DSears]

Rob,

 

I shudder when I think of how much work that was............. It's a good thing today's sequencers are better than that!

 

In a later incarnation of that band I found that the best route was to use a click for just the kick off and then I'd do a simple drum track of hi-hat, kick, and snare and run it through the drummers monitor for the rest of the song. Of course this was dance music so our overall volume as well as stage volume was very loud. Nobody noticed the drum track coming from the drummer's monitor at all and he liked it because he didn't have to wear phones. 4 hours of click track a night is enough to drive anyone crazy, even a drummer............

 

One helpful technique we learned was to put some kind of cue (we used handclaps) to signal an upcoming change or the end of the song, especially if there was an extended jam section where it's easy to lose track of where you are. Rob, you can probably remember a notorious train wreck where ALL of us were lost and we finally had to stop the sequence.

 

David

[DC]

Right now we're doing a duo with live guitar/keys and sequenced bass and drums.

 

For a long time I used midi for all keys, light show and effects changes with live guitar/bass/drums and vocals. I used an aux out on a Roland module straight to a powered hot spot for the drummer's click so he could follow. Cans get really old after awhile.

[BP3]

I was still using Notator for a sequencer when I last player in a band with sequences.

 

We would rehearse with the Notator setup and I used a Roland R8m for the drum machine and click. The click came out of a separate output from the rest of the drum machine stuff. During rehearsal, the drummer and I would write the click track, picking between various percussion sounds rather than the standard "beep" metronome sound whick is very unpleasant sounding and equally painful at high gain. This way we could make the click track dynamic, avoiding bleed into the mics during quite passages. I use this method for click tracks in studio settings to this day.

 

I would also use the first few bars to send program changes and SysEx data (sometimes I'd speed up Notators tempo when recording SysEx so that when it played back at a gig, the data would not cause the click to go off time). This saved me a few times when a piece of gear needed repair, I could rent a replacement and I wouldn't have to reprogram the module. The SysEx stream would load the patch for each song as needed.

 

Once sequences were done, I'd transfer them to an Alesis DataDisc. The DataDisc worked great because it played straight off of the floppy disc. You could also set up the order of the set by renaming the songs with numbers in front of the name.

 

For live gigs, the drummer would count us in in the same way he would without a sequencer. This also helps keep the live feel for the other players, we just follow the drums. A really good drummer is a must when playing with sequencers.

[Botch.]

Originally posted by TinderArts:

I would also use the first few bars to send program changes and SysEx data (sometimes I'd speed up Notators tempo when recording SysEx so that when it played back at a gig, the data would not cause the click to go off time). This saved me a few times when a piece of gear needed repair, I could rent a replacement and I wouldn't have to reprogram the module. The SysEx stream would load the patch for each song as needed.

Tinderarts, can you suggest a good book or website to learn SysEx? I have the MIDI Bible but it's pretty mute on SysEx; my EX-5 manual mentions things like MSB and LSB but never explained them. With my last band I had to load the correct Performance, correct Sequence, etc etc it took 17 button presses to get a sequence going, needless to say one incorrect entry resulted in said train wreck. I'd lurked the EX-5 discussion boards for a year but never really learned how to do it. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

[BP3]

A book might not be neccesary. Many modules and keyboards allow you to dump a single patch (make sure you don't send the entire patch library) over MIDI. This MIDI dump is in the form of a SysEX message and usually writes the patch into a buffer, not over the patch memory of the module. The module will play the patch from the buffer (the same buffer where an edited patch is kept prior to saving it to the patch/program memory). This works with the Roland module that I've used as well as some others. Check your manual under the MIDI or data dump section to see if this method is supported by your instruments.

[BP3]

Keep in mind that I use an external sequencer for my work. Some workstation sequencers might not be up to the style of SysEx backup that I incorporate into my sequences.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Here's a "me too" response.

 

Me too.

 

I run a submix of a click to the drummer in his headphones. The sequences are original material, the same ones we used in creating the original recordings of the tunes. We've also played this way locked to the sequencer as well as audio tracks playing back from ADAT.

 

Then, just pray your drummer stays on time.

 

- Jeff

[Dan O]

Originally posted by R:

Originally posted by dano:

Tran tracks is one company to consider .

 

I use sequences from the company I represent at NAMM ( Ketron) .

 

I use Tune 1000 midi sequences as well .

 

What kind of sequences are you looking for ?

 

dano/ketronguy

Thanks Dano,

 

I wish Tran Tracks had online delivery like MidiHits does!

 

I have been able to purchase sequences and have them emailed to me within 2 minutes with tran tracks . Is this what your talking about ?

 

I'll check out Ketron and Tune 1000. So, do you have a Ketron board?

 

I have been demonstating and endorsing Ketron for a few years now . My current keyboard is the

Ketron SD1 (76keys, 6 gig hard drive . vocal harmonys on board ) . Playing real time sequences and midi sequences is a strong point with SD1 .

I can eliminate all parts of a sequence except for drums and bass with the touch of a button .

I can also eliminate the bass part of a sequence by pressing the manual bass mode . The bass sound gets assigned to the left hand split .

I can completely edit any midi sequence once it's stored on the hard drive .

Ketron SD1 also alows for wav. sync to a midi sequence . I can harmonize and sample a vocal track , than add that to the midi sequence .

 

If so, which one and how do you like it? I'm mainly looking for dance and swing type stuff.

 

I can send you a few swing and dance sequences . Just email me direct . dano/ketronguy

 

Thanks again!

Roland

[synthetic]

R: let us know where you're playing. I would love to see you take even a fraction of your MIDI museum with you. Watching you struggle to tune a CS80 under the hot lights would be worth the ticket price alone.

[R_dup1]

Originally posted by synthetic:

R: let us know where you're playing. I would love to see you take even a fraction of your MIDI museum with you. Watching you struggle to tune a CS80 under the hot lights would be worth the ticket price alone.

LOL, you would be disappointed. My setup is a Triton, Fantom and MS-2000.

[Dan O]

Roland ,

So ....how do you cope with the Triton and Phantom ?

 

The biggest complaint I would receive well selling these keyboards at GC was the fact that you can not change from sound to sound very quickly . Always a delay from one sound to another . Also .....GM play back sucks withe the triton and fantom IMHO .

I believe you have the Triton studio ?

Do you find the hard drive convenient to use ? dano