Question for the MIDI experts

[Super 8]

Is there anyway to use software, like Sonar for example, to remap MIDI note numbers in realtime?

 

My thought goes something like this:

I want to use a MIDI controller to play only the notes in a certain scale. Then when the chord progresses in the sequence, I would have these note numbers assign to a different scale -to go along with the music- and so on. Sort of like automatically re-tuning an instrument on the fly. The simple way of doing this would be to define all of my scales as patches on my MIDI controller, and then step through them. However, I don't have enough patches available for that, the it's a bit limiting considering all of the possible notes I might want to draw from for a given song. I also thought of inserting a pitch bend command, to shift all of the notes to the new key. It won't help me with different kinds of scales, but could work in some limited ways.

 

I know that some of the 'intelligent arrangers' from companies like Roland, can 'translate' the notes you play to the key you song is in, and this is the closest thing I can think of to what I want to do. But I want to do it in software, while my sequence in playing. And, I want to choose the notes that are available, and define when they are available.

 

Make sense???

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[MojoHaiku]

Super 8 --

 

What is it exactly that you are trying to accomplish? Will you be playing live along with a MIDI file? If so, since the pitch changes occur at pre-defined points in the file, why not play live through a particular MIDI track and then just insert a "transpose" command in that track?

 

Does this make sense for what you're doing?

[Tusker]

Cubase has an input transformer that allows you to select different from different scales like pentatonic, arabian, balinese etc. Trouble is I am not aware of a method you can use to switch between them in real time.... it's a drop down menu.

 

I imagine some synths have more than a couple of tuning tables and you maybe able to send sysex to switch between them.

 

It may be easier to do it manually by internalizing the various scales.

 

Jerry

[Postman]

Band-in-a-Box used to have something like what you're describing. While you were playing a tune, you could hit keys on the computer's keyboard and it would play notes in the current key center. It was kinda fun to mess with really. All you had to worry about was rhythm.

 

I'm curious, what would you want the software to do if you hit a "wrong" note. Shift it to the nearest note that fits the key center?

[Super 8]

Originally posted by MojoHaiku:

Super 8 --

 

What is it exactly that you are trying to accomplish?

Well, maybe I wasn't too clear in my original post. I want to use my Zendrum in a performance setting, to go from playing drums, to taking a melodic solo, back to playing drums again. The only thing that eludes me, is how to develop a tone palates to draw from that will allow me greater freedom in expressing myself. So for example, the easiest way to do this would be to pre-define all of the note assignments (like a Cmaj scale), and have that be patch#1. Then do the same thing, but this time it's an F minor scale, and then have that be patch#2 -and so on. Then, when I'm performing, I would have my sequencer send my controller 'patch change' messages to the patch that has the correct scale for that particular part of the song.

 

This would work perfectly for me, but...

 

The problem with doing this, is that I don't have enough patches on my controller to make it feasible.

 

So my thought is...

What if I could tell my sequencer software that at 'this' section of the song, whenever I send you a C1 note number, you're going to make that an F2 note number, and send that out to the appropriate synth. And then in the next section of the song, when I send you the same C1 note number, you're going to send it out as a D3 note number.

So I could take the 24 pads that are on my controller -all of them assigned to 24 note numbers- and use my sequencer software to change those notes -in real time- to any other set of 24 notes I would have pre-defined.

I hope that made sense.

[Super 8]

Okay, so nobody has a solution for me???

 

And, you call yourselves 'experts'... For shame! For shame!

[RickWakeman]

A couple of possibilties came up while discussing this with an ex tech of mine...

Have you thought of using a split keyboard, and changing the octaves of your musical section, and triggering all of your drums of the other split?

Or, can you broadcast on two seperate midi channel #s and have both things available at all times...drums and scales?

Since we don't know what module you are triggering, or the capabilities of your sequencer,that's all we can think of...

I'm sure there's a way to do it, even if it means going the long way to get there...

R

[Bobro]

Originally posted by Super 8:

Originally posted by MojoHaiku:

Super 8 --

 

What is it exactly that you are trying to accomplish?

Well, maybe I wasn't too clear in my original post. I want to use my Zendrum in a performance setting, to go from playing drums, to taking a melodic solo, back to playing drums again. The only thing that eludes me, is how to develop a tone palates to draw from that will allow me greater freedom in expressing myself. So for example, the easiest way to do this would be to pre-define all of the note assignments (like a Cmaj scale), and have that be patch#1. Then do the same thing, but this time it's an F minor scale, and then have that be patch#2 -and so on. Then, when I'm performing, I would have my sequencer send my controller 'patch change' messages to the patch that has the correct scale for that particular part of the song.

 

This would work perfectly for me, but...

 

The problem with doing this, is that I don't have enough patches on my controller to make it feasible.

 

So my thought is...

What if I could tell my sequencer software that at 'this' section of the song, whenever I send you a C1 note number, you're going to make that an F2 note number, and send that out to the appropriate synth. And then in the next section of the song, when I send you the same C1 note number, you're going to send it out as a D3 note number.

So I could take the 24 pads that are on my controller -all of them assigned to 24 note numbers- and use my sequencer software to change those notes -in real time- to any other set of 24 notes I would have pre-defined.

I hope that made sense.

Seems to me the first thing to do would be to figure out how few remappings you really need. For instance, all the same scale types could be handled with transposition. So you've a got a C Major patch and when the song needs D Major you get the patch change and a simple transposition.

Instead of a patch for e minor and f minor, why not the same patch and a transposition?

 

If you really have so many different scales going on that simply transposing a smaller number of patches won't fly, there is MIDI software that can probably do that kind of manaical filtering and remapping of the data on the fly- betcha Infinity could do it for example.

 

Maybe I'm not getting the question, but that Zendrum looks pretty cool!

 

-Bobro

[Tusker]

Originally posted by Super 8:

And, you call yourselves 'experts'... For shame! For shame!

Me, I'm no expert. And Cameron's right, that zendrum looks too cool.

 

Jerry

 

PS: Is this for live use? Do you have a laptop with MIDI?

[Super 8]

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY BOBRO:

" there is MIDI software that can probably do that kind of manaical filtering and remapping of the data on the fly- betcha Infinity could do it for example."

 

Yeah, remapping is exactly what I'm looking for. I haven't heard of Infinity. I'm using Sonar. Is there some kind of plug-in available that I could use?

 

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY RICKWAKEMAN:

"Have you thought of using a split keyboard, and changing the octaves of your musical section, and triggering all of your drums of the other split?

Or, can you broadcast on two seperate midi channel #s and have both things available at all times...drums and scales?"

 

Well the thing is that I'm not really a keyboardist trying to play drums. I'm more of a drummer trying to play keyboards. So what I'm trying to do is more like what your buddy Bill Bruford (assuming you really are the guy you're claiming to be...) when he plays his 'chordal drums' with his band Earthworks. I'll probably by soloing 1% of the time, and drumming the other 99%. The instrument I play can be seen in my avatar. It's a little rudimentary in the MIDI department -I can only send on 1 channel per patch. I'll probably be triggering the tuned sounds on my Kawai K5000, whereas most of my drum sounds come from my Roland TD-7.

 

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY TUSTKER:

" Is this for live use? Do you have a laptop with MIDI?"

 

Yes, this is for playing live. I don't currently have a laptop, but I am saving up to get one to take out with me. Thanks

[Bobro]

http://www.squest.com/Windows/Infinity-Introduction.html

 

The advertising doesn't focus on the MIDI capabilities so much, I was kind of surprised when I got the program to see that it's apparently been developed from a "midi-modular", along the lines of Building Blocks I guess- it's basically a MAX for Windows. You could ask in their user's group if it's possible to do what you want with the program.

[Super 8]

I just checked out the website. Thanks for the link! This product looks to be promising. Looks like you can get a lot of mileage out of it. How do like using it?

It appears that it can run with Sonar, as a plug-in?

 

How is it on system resources?

 

Thanks again!

[Bobro]

Originally posted by Super 8:

I just checked out the website. Thanks for the link! This product looks to be promising. Looks like you can get a lot of mileage out of it. How do like using it?

It appears that it can run with Sonar, as a plug-in?

 

How is it on system resources?

 

Thanks again!

Infinity will run as an audio plugin in Sonar, don't know if you could build a MIDI machine and use that as a plugin. System resources...hm, it's about where Reaktor was before NI optimized, heavy depending on how much is going on inside. Midi stuff should be nowhere near as heavy as some of the audio ensembles, though. I got the program when I was really into Reaktor, but by the time it arrived I was on the analog/acoustic kick I've been on since, so I haven't used Infinity enough.

 

With all these burly programs, you have to really push the demo to find out what you're getting into. The demo isn't idiotically limited fortunately, you should be able to test to see if does what you want with the demo.

 

-Bobro