Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Eminems New Movie - 8 Mile


Recommended Posts

Yeah, I loved the movie. Of course, I also think Eminem is one of the best rappers ever. GREAT flow. I thought the movie was also cool because it showed why Eminem's style is so different from the black style. Love him and the movie!
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 79
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Liberal white "guilt", gratte? Man, I haven't heard such bullshit since they quit selling the Panther paper Downtown! Truth is, most of us don't like Enemaman on principle. His homophobia and insults to people he hasn't even MET gets a bit stale, you know? On the fair side, I have never been much for rap. So I am not the one to give what M&M does any informed critique. The rap lovers I know, regardless how few, feel he does a fine job. So I'll digress. It's just that here in Motown, news of Emminems goings and comings gets an inordinant amount of press and TV mention. I feel if he were from, say, Boise Idaho, it would be another matter. If he should accidentally miss the urinal and piss on his shoe, it would no doubt wind up on the Fox 2 news. Hippie, Jotown and the other Metro Detroiters in this forum could no doubt attest to that. And it's worse now, with the "8 Mile" success. Much to your chagrin, gratte, is the fact that not all white people's dislike of this rapper, or any other white rapper is based on either racism, or some percieved "guilt" that white people are increasingly NOT feeling. Sometimes we whitefo'ks just base our opinions on what it IS, NOT who's doing it. Sorry to dissapoint you! Whitefang
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by gratte Gets the white Columbia and NYU students all in a predictable tizzy, but I never hear anything bad from the blacks in the 'hood. [/quote]Reality check. I'm black, and have definitely have had my moments in the 'hood. There are a lot of things about Em I'm not a fan of. Another reality check, my cousin who is most definitely from the "'hood", explicitly told me he would not talk to me for the rest of the year if I went to see 8 mile. He was joking ofcourse(we're really like brothers), but he was making a point. The propaganda machine is in HIGH GEAR. And hey, in addition to the ethical reasons I wouldn't support Em's message and mission, I also have musical reasons. Basically, I haven't heard anything from the guy that made me go WOW! Dre's production sounds terribly corny to me for this guy, except "Stan." Now, I'm only speaking about major single releases, because as you've guessed I do not buy his records. All in all, God bless Em, but lets not make blankant statements about the "'hood." By my observation, and like Jotown stated, young white suburban males are the leading buyers in Hip-Hop, and particularly M+M. [quote]Originally posted by johnnyvn Of course, I also think Eminem is one of the best rappers ever. GREAT flow. I thought the movie was also cool because it showed why Eminem's style is so different from the black style. Love him and the movie! [/quote]Ok, I respect your opinion. However, for me, I don't see much difference from Em's style from the "black" style(BTW, "black style" does not exist). In Hip-Hop, an MC's style is all he has. Unlike, guitar players who can be noticably influenced by other players and it's OK, rappers must attempt to be as original as possible. Nothing is looked upon worst in Hip-Hop, than "biting" someone else's style. So, to find a consistent "black style" I think would be damn near impossible. As far as Em goes, his style reminds me of old school late 80s, early to mid 90s rap, where SKILLZ defined the quality of your flow. Now, a lot, not all, of MCs rely on style rather than skills. When Em came out, atleast by my observation, he brought back skills to the mainstream. Things like good word choice, and different rythmic patterns in a verse. These things have been done, by many many MCs before, however here lately you've been hearing less and less of these skilled MCs on the radio. For example, Ja Rule is a rapper who relies more on his style and presence than pure rap skills, while KRS-one is all skills for the most part. Em kind of brought that back to the mainstream, from what I've heard of their music(I don't buy their records either) Nelly and Ja Rule don't employ much skills. Unfortunately, Em's, IMO, voice is his biggest handicap as a MC when viewed in the traditional sense and with the traditional standards. For example, Rakim is considered by many true Hip-Hop fans to be the Best ever, because he had excellent word choice, crazy rythmic patterns, and a voice made for Hip-Hop. Take Chuck D from Public Enemy, and you hear the same thing. Great delivery, incredible lyrics, off the hook rythmic patterns. So to say Em is different, I can't hear it. He reminds me of rappers committed to the traditional standards w/out the great voice like Rakim, Guru, and many, many others. Just my Opinion. For the record, I'm not saying that Rap should be limited to the the traditional standards. Hip-Hop like any other genre must change and transform. If the folks listening to Rap today don't care about skills from their MCs, or have a different standard for what skillz are, God bless. I play Rock and Roll, and listen to more Go-Go for my Rap fix these days. Go-Go just sounds more authentic to me these days than the commercial Rap. Lincoln Ross Dead Black Jedis

"All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence."

 

The Buddha's Last Words

 

R.I.P. RobT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Jedi: [b] [quote]Originally posted by gratte Another reality check, my cousin who is most definitely from the "'hood", explicitly told me he would not talk to me for the rest of the year if I went to see 8 mile. He was joking ofcourse(we're really like brothers), but he was making a point. The propaganda machine is in HIGH GEAR. And hey, in addition to the ethical reasons I wouldn't support Em's message and mission, I also have musical reasons. Basically, I haven't heard anything from the guy that made me go WOW! Dre's production sounds terribly corny to me for this guy, except "Stan." Now, I'm only speaking about major single releases, because as you've guessed I do not buy his records. [QUOTE]Originally posted by johnnyvn Of course, I also think Eminem is one of the best rappers ever. GREAT flow. I thought the movie was also cool because it showed why Eminem's style is so different from the black style. Love him and the movie! [/quote]Ok, I respect your opinion. However, for me, I don't see much difference from Em's style from the "black" style(BTW, "black style" does not exist). In Hip-Hop, an MC's style is all he has. Unlike, guitar players who can be noticably influenced by other players and it's OK, rappers must attempt to be as original as possible. Nothing is looked upon worst in Hip-Hop, than "biting" someone else's style. So, to find a consistent "black style" I think would be damn near impossible. Em kind of brought that back to the mainstream, from what I've heard of their music(I don't buy their records either) Nelly and Ja Rule don't employ much skills. For example, Rakim is considered by many true Hip-Hop fans to be the Best ever, because he had excellent word choice, crazy rythmic patterns, and a voice made for Hip-Hop. Take Chuck D from Public Enemy, and you hear the same thing. Great delivery, incredible lyrics, off the hook rythmic patterns. So to say Em is different, I can't hear it. He reminds me of rappers committed to the traditional standards w/out the great voice like Rakim, Guru, and many, many others. Just my Opinion. For the record, I'm not saying that Rap should be limited to the the traditional standards. Hip-Hop like any other genre must change and transform. If the folks listening to Rap today don't care about skills from their MCs, or have a different standard for what skillz are, God bless. I play Rock and Roll, and listen to more Go-Go for my Rap fix these days. Go-Go just sounds more authentic to me these days than the commercial Rap. Lincoln Ross Dead Black Jedis[/b][/quote]Well, good points there. When we look at singers, can we agree that there is greatness in any singer having a voice which we can immediately identify in just a couple of words? Rod Stewart, Frank Sinatra, Stevie Wonder, Joe Cocker, Aretha, Elvis, Barry White, etc. These are the people whose very voices are so instantly identify-able by almost anyone in society. In rap, I look for the same attribute. When I said the "black style" what I meant to say that was since, in the major markets, rap is largely a black game, many of the rappers (98% black) sound similar to my ears...I'm often asking my kids "ok, now who is this?". On the other hand, here are the rappers whose very voices are instantly identifiable to my ears...Snoop, Dre, B-Real (Cypress), Eminem, Chuck D. I think I could take Redman, Mystical, Ja Rule, Busta Rhymes (and there are others) and I couldn't tell one from the other. That bothers me...and I'm not saying that they're biting anyone else...I'm just saying that a lot of rappers' voices sound too similar for me to tell them apart...just like Backstreet Boys/N Sync/O-town/98 degrees, etc. That is one of the big reasons I love Eminem. Other reasons...tremendous charisma...(did you see him rock the MTV Music Awards with White America and Cleaning Out My Closet?)...great intelligibility (I can hear every word when he raps)...cool musical settings (great guitar/beat combo on "Lost Yourself" and agree that Stan is a near masterpiece...blah, blah. His scene in the movie when he breaks it off in the food line was what I'm talking about...first the black chick, then the black dude (both ok), but when Eminem steps up, the very sound of his voice is SO different. And by the way, it's a sad day (to me) when anyone in the HipHop community doesn't feel compelled to see 8 Mile. For heaven sakes...Eminem is opening up the game even further and should be applauded for that. (Just like some of Nelly's VERY upbeat and fun records). Just my thoughts... J
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OHHHHHHHHHH! J. You were talking about his voice. Well, hell, yeah, I give you that, he sounds totally different from the average rapper. I misunderstood you, my bad. I was referring to the style. The word choice, rythmic patterns, content, wit, etc. In rap listening, for me atleast, the way a person raps is very noticeable. If you're really interested in Hip-Hop, I would suggest listening a little closer to the style presented. Please don't take this statement in a condescending tone, I just think that if you're really interested in Hip-Hop, it would be a much more beneficial experience to hear the differences in styles. For me there is a world of difference from every artists you named. Just a suggestion tho, YMMV. As far as his voice, different strokes for different folks. I just hate the way that guy sounds on record. But FWIW, I'm sure there are many that can't stand when I open my mouth to sing. It's definitely unique to Rap, and I atleast appreciate that he doesn't try to take on a deeper more masculine voice to sound tough. I appreciate he uses his own voice. I guess he's just not of my taste. No big deal. I haven't seen Em rock yet. At the MVAs, he did OK at best for me. But I'm biased, most of the rap I've seen performed lately suck so bad it's ridiculous. I'll tell you this, he was better than Nas, Ja Rule, and Ashanti. WHEWWWWW. BORING. As far as his intelligibility, I can't really comment. Once you develop an ear for Hip-Hop, they all sound pretty intelligible to me. Em sounds more high-pitched and whiney to me, but intelligible, not something I would have noticed. Again, all just my opinion, and it's been great having this conversation with you, J. Lincoln Ross Dead Black Jedis

"All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence."

 

The Buddha's Last Words

 

R.I.P. RobT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Hank The Cave Peanut: [b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [qb]I've heard the comparisons of Eminem to Elvis, but... well... Elvis didn't condone killing people in his lyrics, y'know? [/b][/quote]"Now listen to me, baby Try to understand. I'd rather see you dead, little girl, Than to be with another man." From Baby, Let's Play House, as sung by Elvis Presley. Peace activist John Lennon liked the last two lines enough to steal them for his song Run For Your Life. Killing and death seem to be a very popular subject in all art forms. Shakespeare, books, plays, paintings, music, songs, TV, movies, poetry. Killing and death are very entertaining.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Jeff's defense, and with all due respect. I think you are really splitting hairs here. You take one line out of an Elvis song, from a lyric he didn't even write, and you try to compare it to Eminems entire body of work. Every other song on every album M has ever recorded is violent, misogynistic or just plain mean. Mr. Mathers has managed to get a song on every CD where he dis's his own mother, and the mother of his child. In defense of every thug rapper out there I have never heard any of them dis' their own mother. Your point about violence and rock is well taken, but I think you are off the mark here.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe. If Eminem is truly a pathelogical killer, than maybe he should be tested or something. But if he's not, why are the words of rappers or some other musicians meant as reflections of who they are, where as the words or images in tons of mainstream movies and television shows, are not considered reflections of those who created them. Was Alfred Hitchcock a psycho?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When someone in their music, calls their mother a bitch, and calls the mother of his children a slut and a ho, and gets on television and backs it up by saying, "yeah that's what I said". And his mother and ex-wife both get on the media and ask him to please stop, it's not an act anymore. It's who he is. I have always had a problem with rapper's of the thug variety who make hateful recordings, get into altercations, wave guns, shoot them and even wind up in jail. Millions of kids see and hear it and even if they could differentiate fantasy from reality, seeing their favorite rapper in handcuffs at his arraignment make it pretty hard to believe that it is all an act. Tupac's “thug music, and lifestyle” are what led to where his ride ended. Nobody in their right mind believes that Val Kilmer is really Batman. If you are a thug rapper your entire career, in fact your credibility as an artist is based on the fact that you are that person. IE: Keeping it real. This whole argument about it just being an act just doesn't hold up. Just my opinion.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that is really what he's about, then you're right, I agree. (I do think, though, that death and violence are apparently very entertaining, and I'm not talking about Batman, I'm talking about words and images that are very bloody and violent, and are accepted as art by millions of respectable people.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by zork: [b]If that is really what he's about, then you're right, I agree. (I do think, though, that death and violence are apparently very entertaining, and I'm not talking about Batman, I'm talking about words and images that are very bloody and violent, and are accepted as art by millions of respectable people.)[/b][/quote]I agree with you on that. If a film maker, makes a movie about the life of Jeffery Dahmer, and includes violent footage about his terrible crimes, I will grant him artistic license for trying to show us something about the human condition in his film about a psychopath. On the other hand, if Jeffery Dahmer makes videos of the acts as he is committing them, I am sure that they would sell millions, yet I would say that his artistic license would have to be revoked. That's the kind of difference I am talking about.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will take it a step further. If after Jeffery Dahmer sells millions of his videos, and the show biz media try to make him respectable because after all, people seem to love his videos, they buy them by the millions don't they? Every one loves you when you have a hit. (Just ask Vince Mchman.) And besides I heard he had a rough childhood. Then you see him on Barbara Waltes saying; "I'm really not a bad person, just misunderstood. If you look closely, you will see my sense of humor in my work" Now what is sad about the above scenario is that if such videos existed, and Mr. Dahmer were still alive, it could actually happen in this screwed up social'/media climate we now live in. Just my opinion.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, though, the artistic license granted to someone who glamourizes real violence, I think, is more disturbing, then someone who is entertaining, like Hitchcock or Poe. I'm more disturbed by TV news magazines making stars out of real killers and real death, than I am by posing rappers, for example. Also, I imagine there are a lot of psychos, killers, and all around violent people, who probably listen to, or create, very pleasant music. (I wonder what Osama Bin Laden listens to? )
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not getting into that whole "rap causes violence" debate. I am just saying that sometimes you cannot separate the artist from his work. Eminem is just and example of such an artist. I say if you believe what you are saying is true, and you are profiting by saying it, stand behind it and don't try to distance yourself from the role you play. Especially if it is the role that you are playing in real life.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay. I don't know enough about the truth of Eminem's real life to pass judgement. I've heard a few of his "songs" though, and I personally get little from them, regardless of what they're about. Stan was amusing the first time I heard it, but I don't really need to hear it again. I've been in a few dance clubs though, and when his tracks come on, people sure love to dance to them. He seems to have something that connects with a lot of people, for whatever that's worth. Peace.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed when Eminem raps from a '1st-person' point of view, critics say his songs 'advocate violence, abuse, homophobia and general thug life'. Sung from 2nd-person POV, they are considered 'social commentary'. Interesting.
In two days, it won't matter.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by zork: [b]I've been in a few dance clubs though, and when his tracks come on, people sure love to dance to them. He seems to have something that connects with a lot of people, for whatever that's worth. Peace.[/b][/quote]He is in regular rotation on my break mix list for the reason that you mentioned. One thing that I have concluded is that there are a lot of angry, hurt and pissed off people out there. Artists like Eminem and many, many others are creating music that resonates with that anger. That is IMHO the biggest thing that is wrong with Pop Music; (and yes Eminem is Pop Music) It glamorizes the violence and predatory sexuality that is already out there. Of course people, especially young people connect with that. Yet I find it so very manipulative. It's the easy way to sell something, and it works.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe. Or maybe they just like the beat. Anger is reflected in punk, heavy metal, movies, TV....as it always has been. But it's not a reflection of everyone who listens to Eminem. Rock N Roll has always had an angry, rebellious attitude as much as it's been happy or positive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]He is in regular rotation on my break mix list for the reason that you mentioned. [/b][/quote]So you're playing him at your gigs? So you're promoting him and making money off of his music? And knocking him here? No offense, but that's a bit confusing. :confused:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do 240 one nighters a year and in clubs when people are dancing on the breaks I play what they want to hear. That's one of the reasons that I get 240 dates a year. If people want to dance, fight, or screw to Eminems music that is their business. In clubs you are performing a service and you better know what that service is. I don't sing/rap his songs except in one where I do a parody of him. And I have a whole bit I do about how he and Pink are in anger management together. As previously stated, I have met the man. I know people that work for him, and I am freinds with his ex-wifes' family. I stll think he is an ass for the content of his music, regardless of how nice he may be one on one. That is the point I have been trying to make. You can't separate this artist from his work. That is not true of all artists, but it is true of him. You have been saying the contrary. We are both entitled to our opinions. So I guess I do profit indirectly from his music, and if I knew him better I would have no qualms about writing a tell all book about him. I could use the cash. I am not exactly sure what you are confused about, and I don't know why playing his music on breaks offends you, but I hope that I have answered your question.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thought. If in clubs during my dance breaks I only played music by artists whom I admired and respected and thought were stellar human beings, there would be nothing to play during the breaks. Is that your policy for chosing material when performing in bars?

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by thisDude: [b]Okay, is the movie about his life, or is his life about the movie? [/b][/quote]The movie is "loosely based" on his life. You know what that means don't you? That it is 99% fantasy and 1% true.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]One more thought. If in clubs during my dance breaks I only played music by artists whom I admired and respected and thought were stellar human beings, there would be nothing to play during the breaks. Is that your policy for chosing material when performing in bars?[/b][/quote]There have probably been times when I have played music by someone, who, if I really knew them, maybe I would think they were less than stellar. But, yes, I would feel hypocritical if I really felt someone was a horrible person, and their music was truly offensive, I made it known in public, and then played their music for profit (or even not for profit). If you feel Eminem is such a horrible person, and you feel his lyrics are that distasteful, than certainly you can find something else to get people on the dance floor. That's just my opinion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last night on Fox's "Mad TV" they did a skit where David Allen Grier played Ed Bradley interviewing MM for a mock 60 Minutes interview. Bradley ends up kicking the s--t out of Mathers and then later Andy Rooney. Now THAT'S entertainment! :D They also had a skit where Bush was singing a takeoff on "I'm Sorry Momma" while Barbara gave him hell. Extremely funny!! As far as the movie goes, I have no interest whatsoever. I've heard that it's a good film, but so what? There are a lot of good films coming out, and I won't have time to see more than a few of them, so why should I put money in the little cracker's pocket? Yeah, man, [b]I'M[/b] sorry for his momma, too!

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the biggest problem with rap is not what it is or who does it, but rather what it was and where it went from there. Nobody really had a lot of bad things to say about it in the beggining. Oh, some might have said they thought it was sensless or dumb, and left it at that, but it mostly was a take it or leave it proposition. One either liked it or not. End of discussion. But then it got into the "Gangsta" era, and that's when the shit hit the fan. Wether or not those "tunes" were actually promoting violence against police, wives and women in general, or violence against each other as far as that goes, is a topic for debate that will chew up years. For all I know, it may have been an attempt to display an unseemly character in much of the youth in an effort to thwart more young away from it, and suffered the Ron O'Neil syndrome. This is an affliction suffered by film makers and recording artists that uses the very worst aspects of society in an effort to put out the message that you shouldn't BE this type of scum. "Look at him", they seem to say, "Do you want to be THAT kind low-life?" Ron O'Neil had this in mind when he made the film "Super Fly". The whole idea was to show people, young people especially, that the life of crime and dope dealing made one the kind of undesirable that would have his best friend killed while screwing that friend's wife. Ruining other people's lives with mind-numbing drugs and taking their last dime to live large was supposed to be a negative example. Instead, Priest, the coke dealer O'Neil portrayed, became a HERO to many young black men, and the original intent of the film backfired embarrasingly. Is this what happened with "Gangsta" rap? Or did those who performed it actually believe it was a desirable way of life? Only the fans can tell me for sure. Whatever it is that Emminem says in his rap, one thing has to be discerned; is it only HIS opinion? Or is he, like most artists, only reflecting opinions widely shared by a good many people? Whitefang
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]But, yes, I would feel hypocritical if I really felt someone was a horrible person, and their music was truly offensive, I made it known in public, and then played their music for profit (or even not for profit).[/quote]I am very much anti-smoking yet I work in clubs, and as you may or may not know, people in clubs smoke. Am I a hypocrite for still working there? I am a vegan yet I work in places that serve meat. Am I a hypocrite for working there? Do you actually get paid to play music? Have you ever played a Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, Rolling Stones, Marilyn Manson, song or many other artists who have questionable values? Give me a break here. This thread is about Eminem, and the amount of hype surrounding his movie. Maybe you should start another thread about how hypoctitcal it is to play music by bad people. :wave:

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...