Sylver Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 So,I recorded this mellow fretless bass track for this song. The wave form was kinda uneven, and the the swells when I played the open E caused great stress to my subwoofer, so I put a nice, smooth compression on it and it took care of most of the dynamic issues, BUT ... the string squeek is now very audible, where you couldn't hear it at all before compression. What's the best way to attack this? Rethink my compressor settings, or maybe try to eq it out? Something else that I haven't thought of? Thanks in advance... I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Sylver: [b]So,I recorded this mellow fretless bass track for this song. The wave form was kinda uneven, and the the swells when I played the open E caused great stress to my subwoofer, so I put a nice, smooth compression on it and it took care of most of the dynamic issues, BUT ... the string squeek is now very audible, where you couldn't hear it at all before compression. What's the best way to attack this? Rethink my compressor settings, or maybe try to eq it out? Something else that I haven't thought of? Thanks in advance...[/b][/quote]Bump I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franknputer Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 You could use the sidechain input of the compressor (assuming it has one) to only compress the bass when it swells too far. What you would do is: Patch the track over to a second, open channel with a Y jack, or maybe from an insert or something. Roll off all the high end on the EQ, so you have a "hyped" bottom end. Feed this signal to the sidechain input (not to the main output), and then adjust the threshhold so that only the biggest swells of the bassline trigger the compressor, squashing only the loudest parts. You might also try a little EQ to reduce the squeaks a bit further, but you'll end up losing all the higher harmonic content of the bass before you really eliminate it this way. Another option - split the bass to 2 channels, EQ the top out of one & compress it, and EQ the bottom out of the other one & don't compress it. Mix the 2 tracks back together as you like them. (Probably best to do this with lo-pass and high-pass filters, but you can certainly try the channel EQs.) Still another option - use a de-esser if you have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtoledo3 Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I would either go for the aforementioned two tracks of bass- one compressed/one natural- mix to taste.... or if you have automation available, just work it! I HATE squeaks :mad: ! Its gotten so hip nowdays to kill acoustic tracks with an over load of squeaks- for "authenticity" I guess :rolleyes: . Well, if you're a a player who's in control, you don't make squeaks, damnit :p . Not trying to diss you on the bass thing- squeaks are my big pet peeve :freak: Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"- www.grand-designs.cc/mmforum/index.php The soon-to-be home of the "12 Bar-Blues Project" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 The smooth/enhance feature in Sound Forge works well to make that type sound blend in. Not the whole track just the little squeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Well, first I wouldn't assume that hearing some string squeak is necessarily a bad thing. It can make a track sound a lot more organic; hell, people using synthesized or sampled string instruments often add in noises like this on purpose to make a part sound more authentic. I would certainly think that using a bunch of processing to kill the squeaks is going to do more harm than good, but I guess you can try it and see what you think. How new are the strings? New strings are going to be much brighter sounding and more likely to produce squeaking. You could try a bit of talcum powder on your fingers to help mitigate this. Then of course there is always playing technique, which is a major factor of course. Try to practice playing in such a way to minimize the squeaking. Obvious perhaps, but I was surprised nobody mentioned it yet. Good luck. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 SLIVER: Do you have Sound Forge? If so, isolate each squeak and set the Smooth/Enhance slider on -2 or more depending on how loud the squeaks are. Works for me. Who made you a Captain, BTW? I think you did have something to do with starting this whole spanking craze but that doesn't mean you own it. We need to talk because I don't want a knife fight to break out in the SSS. Please tell GT to lay off with the PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 It's always best to eliminate at the source. This won't help you for previosly-recorded tracks, but a string lubricant might be the easiest solution in the future. I don't use them myself but have seen these types of things at music stores. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Hey Craig: Have you ever used the Smooth/Enhance tool in Sound Forge? I've found that it does work very well on transient sounds. I'm not sure how it works though. EQ, plus noise reduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I've used smooth/enhance a lot, but not for squeaks, mostly for clicks and pops. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovepusher Sly Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Like someone said above, multi-band compressor. Sly :cool: Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudist Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Try a de-esser. Hardware or plugin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 umm, hate to point out the completely obvious here, but, um; fader automation anyone? locate each squeak and pull down the fader about 9db or less/more. squeaks are still there (you want them there, trust me) but they wont stick out. i'll take my reward money in a brown paper envelope please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtoledo3 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I referred to fader automation in my post. So, the obvious had already been pointed out! :D Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"- www.grand-designs.cc/mmforum/index.php The soon-to-be home of the "12 Bar-Blues Project" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 ah, yes. but [b]I[/b] was the first to suggest [b]moving[/b] the faders with automation :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 The string squeak sound occurs at the same time as the note on the instrument, so if you pull the fader down to cut it you would also cut out the bass sound. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I CUT YOU :) doesnt the squeak happen BETWEEN notes, i.e. changing finger position on the neck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Not really, sometimes it occurs right when your finger presses the note to the fretboard. But you could try the fader automation anyway. The cut in volume might not be long enough to be noticeable in the bass sound. Just don't come crying to me when it sounds all screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 wah! wah! bleet bleet bleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Hepworth Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Yup, Waves C4 is just what the doctor ordered. No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 That's probably the best idea yet Matt. Ever used C4 in a situation like that? Walk us through the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZsound Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Another simple solution is to find the fundamental frequency of the squeek and eq it out. I use this function sometimes if I get an "overtone" on my sax. The main difference is the upright bass squeek is between notes and easier to eq out. After applying eq, the "smooth" function of SF works great. Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtoledo3 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Yeah coaster, I was thinking EQ automation. Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"- www.grand-designs.cc/mmforum/index.php The soon-to-be home of the "12 Bar-Blues Project" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 ive had really good results using eq automation in protools le, although to confess i have only used that particular technique to get filter sweeps. i still think fader automation on the bass track would get rid of the swells without raising the squeaks. i use fader automation to "compress" samples that otherwise wouldnt compress well before sending them to my sampler (for live use). you can get a real stick-o'butter waveform with just automation and no pumping if thats what you want. seems like i have to automate a lot of tracks when mixing......... maybe just working on compression settings would help this bass track...i.e. no need to compress the signal during the squeaks, just during the low freq swells described before......? i do know that my compressor setting for our lead singer only results in gain reduction when he [i]really[/i] gets on it, and then its only compressed at 2:1. this results in a super fat sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Wewusususus: [b]SLIVER: Do you have Sound Forge? If so, isolate each squeak and set the Smooth/Enhance slider on -2 or more depending on how loud the squeaks are. Works for me. Who made you a Captain, BTW? I think you did have something to do with starting this whole spanking craze but that doesn't mean you own it. We need to talk because I don't want a knife fight to break out in the SSS. Please tell GT to lay off with the PMs.[/b][/quote]Actually, All I have as far as compression right now is plug ins. Yeah, I'm about all digital, though I'd like an out board compressor. Yes, I have soundforge, so I'll try it. OH, and the Capain thang is in the Turkey-day spirit. You know, the guy who sailed the Mayflower ... Captain William Bradford, who I just happen to be descended from. Too bad I didn't get any of that old money. I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b]It's always best to eliminate at the source. This won't help you for previosly-recorded tracks, but a string lubricant might be the easiest solution in the future. I don't use them myself but have seen these types of things at music stores.[/b][/quote]I would normally agree, Craig, but in this case, the string squeeks are totally inaudable before compression. It was the compressor that brought it out. I'm using Elixers on the fretless too. I usually don't go in for grease on the strings, I feel like it deadens the tone too much, and I hate greasy fingers. I just happened to pick a sound(that I really like for this tune) that tends to swell when you hold the note, which is why I had to compress the hell out of it. I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by PsyCoasteralalala: [b]umm, hate to point out the completely obvious here, but, um; fader automation anyone? locate each squeak and pull down the fader about 9db or less/more. squeaks are still there (you want them there, trust me) but they wont stick out. i'll take my reward money in a brown paper envelope please![/b][/quote]Yeah, I've actually been playing around with that. It might do the trick instead of compression. I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Some ways to cut squeaks at the source. Do these BEFORE the signal reaches the compressor. - - use flatwound strings instead of roundwounds - mic a bass amp instead of going direct - cut high EQ at around the squeak frequency or if all you have is a shelving EQ or a lowpass filter, cut everything above a certain frequency. The Avalon U5 direct box has a LPF for this purpose. - ask the player to play in position and eliminate unnecessary shifts. If they have to shift, they should life their finger enough to do it quietly. Once you've got squeaks on tape/digital media, you can use EQ or a de-esser tuned to the squeak frequency or the equivalent DSP (EQ boosting squeak freq into compressor side chain). I've heard of dynamic equalizers, but I don't understand them well enough to know whether they'd be applicable in this case. Multi-band compression may work, too, but you have to spend some time carefully setting them up to get the right sound. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 unfortunately multiband compression is a catch-22. if you are not an expert at it, you shouldnt use it because you can easily strip the sound down to garbage, worse than what you started with. AND, if you dont ever use it, youll never become an expert! i was tossing the idea of using the c4 but shutting off all but the low band(s), so the low-end bass would be compressed, but the high end would be left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudist Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Shhhhh! De-esser, I mean it. Basically it is a low pass tuneable midrange compressor, and in digital land you have look ahead capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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