Letterman band - bad live sound?

[Dan South]

I've always wondered why the Letterman band doesn't sound very good on TV. That's kind of the point of being in the Letterman band, isn't it? Maybe they sound great in the studio, but Will Lee's bass completely vaporizes on the way to my TV's speakers, and Paul Shaffer's (spelling?) keyboards always blurt out a muddy din the steps all over the other instruments. The drummer is the only one I can hear well. They also don't seem very "tight" for pros who've played together for decades. Sometimes they seem wasted, especially Paul. Leno's band sounds great. His jokes are a lot more stupid, but the band is ON. The old Tonight Show band (Johnny Carson era) rocked. Game shows have great sounding bands. What's wrong with Letterman?

[freddynl]

Instead of paying attention to the music, I think they are paying more attention and wanna be part of the "Jokes" of Letterman. :)

[Sylver]

[quote]Originally posted by freddynl: [b]Instead of paying attention to the music, I think they are paying more attention and wanna be part of the "Jokes" of Letterman. :) [/b][/quote]Ever since they moved to CBS and got all those extra players, I think that the band has sounded like crapola. They are muddy and just don't groove anymore. Such a shame. Will Lee and Anton Fig(Is he still with them? I haven't stayed up that late watching TV for years.) have such a chemestry together, but the rest of the band bogs it down now. Did you guys know that Will and Anton played on the Ace Frehley solo album way back when? It was the only of the four Kiss "solo" albums that had any balls at all. I still pull it out once in a while. "Cause I'm back, back in the New York Groove ..."

[D_dup3]

I agree with the comments on the band's mix via TV (maybe they're going for a "high-end" mix?), especially Per Will Lee's sound. Several years ago he was briefly subbed for by Neil Jason & the difference was [i]astounding[/i]---not because NJ was a better player but because he could be heard! Maybe a letter campaign to the individual players would help...

[Hanshananigan]

DA-TA-DA-TA-DA-TA-DATADA DA-TA-DA-TA-DA-TA-DATADA DA-TA-DA-TA-DA-TA-DATADA DA-TA- ("It's the late") TA-DATADA ("IT's the late show") DA-TA-DA-TA-DA-TA-DATADA DA-TA-DA-TA-DA-TA-DATADA DADAADDADADADADADADA-TAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! STUPID MAIL BAG TRICKS YAH!!!! FANFARE!!!!!!! That's about all I hear the Late Show band doing, the rare times I watch. I agree, Sylver- I think they were more of a "band" before CBS. On a positive note, I REALLY like Max Weinberg, et al.

[lrossmusic]

[quote] [b]The old Tonight Show band (Johnny Carson era) rocked.[/b] [/quote]Y E S !!! Especially when Clark Terry layed one of those burning solo's on us. Boy do I miss that big band sound. The current musical situation is so watered down it pales by comparison to the good old days. Oops isn't that a sign middle age blues or better yet mid-life crisis kicking in. :)

[Lee Tyler]

I noticed that alot of these late show bands seem to be overblowing or overplaying their parts. Kinda like band practice in junior high school/marching band. All wanting to be "heard". Lotta brassy noise. No definition of parts or passages. More often than not, Conan's band kicks the shit out of the others, sometimes not. Great topic for a thread, Dan. Could be the "TV" sound, but I doubt it.

[BP3]

I disagree about the Letterman mixes, although I don't watch all that much. I think Michael Delugg does a fine job mixing. Paul's arrangemants on the other hand are often cheesy at best. Shaeffer spends his time (therefore Mike's time as well) on the comedy cues and doesn't rehearse the break music that much. Do you like the way the guest bands sound? Michael does 97% of those mixes as well. The mixing room is quite sweet. It has a V shaped SSL with 40 inputs for Paul's guys and 40 for the guest band. There are 3 monitors and Michel switches between pairs out of the three depending on which half of the console he's mixing on. The studio is much smaller than you'd think from watching. Everybody is right on top of everybody else. Add to that the fact that it's barely 50 degrees in the studio (so Dave won't sweat) and you have a rather uncomfortable perfoming environment.

[GT40sc]

Here's a point nobody else has brought up: The Ed Sullivan Theatre is (still) a sucky sounding room! I believe the room was extensively modified when Letterman moved to CBS (someone already posted something about the control room) but I'm thinking about the live performance space itself... whatcha think?

[Dan South]

[quote]Originally posted by GT40sc: [b] The Ed Sullivan Theatre is (still) a sucky sounding room! [/b][/quote]It worked fine for the Beatles.

[Dan South]

[quote]Originally posted by TinderArts: [b] Do you like the way the guest bands sound? Michael does 97% of those mixes as well. [/b][/quote]Good point. Yes, they usually sound great. I think the problem lies with the Late Night band, maybe just Paul and Will. Why don't such well travelled pros have a clue?

[Gtoledo3]

Man, now you've gone too far! I have to say, I've always thought the opposite- that Leno's band sounds wacked! I chalk alot of it up to the local affiliate's multiband compressor settings, not the players. I jammed with Will and Anton before, and they are both great players, and Will has a monster tone, IMO. And even though Conan's band can kick ass, listen to the sound quality during the interviews. It sounds like parts of the frequency spectrum are skewed in relation to one another. I can distinctly hear their chain choking on treble frequencies- it can get pretty nasty.

[Mark V]

Is it my immagination or is Paul sometimes playing horn parts on the keyboard as well? I dunno sometimes I think the arrangements are too cluttered,why does he have 2 guitarists?Are they also good vocalists?Maybe he'd be better with one guitarist and maybe a good vocalist that does a bit of percussion.I've never really noticed if the bass is mixed well or not,but in fairness I think I'd have to crank the volume on the TV a bit,wouldn't go down too well at 11.30 at night in my house.

[GZsound]

Since I don't listen to the Letterman band on my TV speakers but rather through my surround system, the band has always sounded well mixed to me. I hear everything quite clearly. The problem with overplaying sometimes and getting silly sometimes would come to any of us that played the same venue night after night. When I did six nights a week five hours a night in the mid seventies we had a tendency to get silly and loose sometimes too. Personally, I think the band is great and the mixers and sound engineers do a really good job. Leno on the other hand..his sound sucks...

[Salyphus]

[quote]Originally posted by SOUND DIAGNOSIS: [b]I noticed that alot of these late show bands seem to be overblowing or overplaying their parts. Kinda like band practice in junior high school/marching band. All wanting to be "heard". Lotta brassy noise. [/b][/quote]Wasn't Doc Severinson the pioneer of this overbearing late night TV style of obnoxious trumpet abuse? :D

[lrossmusic]

[quote] [b]Add to that the fact that it's barely 50 degrees in the studio (so Dave won't sweat) and you have a rather uncomfortable perfoming environment.[/b] [/quote]As a brass player (trombone) I hate playing in a cold room. Absolutely miserable. OTOH if I was making the kind of bread I assume Paul's guys are pulling in I guess I could find a way to adapt. :) When I was in school I quit marching band for that reason. Also here in DC I never envied those service cats who have to play outside at inaugurations in January. Brrrrr Even though they sometimes use plastic mouthpieces, from what I hear, that s**t is for the birds as far as I'm concernrd.

[Ultravibe]

[quote] More Will Lee trivia: I picked up a "Star Wars Disco" album not too long ago... Will Lee played bass on it. [/quote]Does that have the Ewok rap on it? best...song...ever

[Abnorm]

Before they went to CBS, I thought the Letterman band was the best on TV. When they went to CBS they inexplicably changed the band to the current unwieldy dinosaur. I have seen the show maybe 3 times since they went to CBS. They're garbage now! :cry:

[BP3]

[quote]Originally posted by Abnorm: [b]Before they went to CBS, I thought the Letterman band was the best on TV. When they went to CBS they inexplicably changed the band to the current unwieldy dinosaur. I have seen the show maybe 3 times since they went to CBS. They're garbage now! :cry: [/b][/quote]The change was so Paul could call it his 'Orchestsra'. :rolleyes:

[where02190]

I've done both shows a few times, and the big difference in the studio is the bands volume. the Letterman band plays at ear splitting levels, which raise havov with any mix, whereas the tonight show band is very dynamic and much more tolerable spl-wise. I personally don't think either band sounds good through your average TV, too much is put into the surround mix, which sounds much better. Yes indeed Anton played on Ace's solo records, and in fact toured with him for a few weeks in '87. I was privvy to working on that tour (til it went belly up in Cleveland and we all got handed plane tix home and rubber checks.) Anton was so used to the 30 second so fplaying followed by 10 minutes of chillin', after the first night, his hands were raw from a 90 minute set. He was taken to see a doctor, and forced to wear gloves for the remaining two weeks. FWIW, Paul Shaffer is a major stoner. He has alwyas wreaked of pot when I have seen him in person. the Ed Sullivan theatre went through a complete restructure for the Letterman show when it move in, and sounds completely different from the original. Both that and the NBC studios are however very small, the magic of television giving the appearance of something much larger. Neither stages are more than about 35-40 feet wide (if that) from far end of house band to far end of Dave and Jays area. Put two bands plus the show area in that and it get's small very fast. Hope this is helpful.

[Jotown]

I used to really dig the Late Nite band, but they definitely prove that bigger is not better. On the other hand, I think that Max's band on Conan kicks some serious butt. The guitar player has such good tone.

[pbognar]

[quote]Originally posted by markvincent: [b]Is it my immagination or is Paul sometimes playing horn parts on the keyboard as well? I dunno sometimes I think the arrangements are too cluttered,why does he have 2 guitarists?Are they also good vocalists?Maybe he'd be better with one guitarist and maybe a good vocalist that does a bit of percussion.I've never really noticed if the bass is mixed well or not,but in fairness I think I'd have to crank the volume on the TV a bit,wouldn't go down too well at 11.30 at night in my house.[/b][/quote]Couldn't agree with you more - Paul is trying to play it all - either drop the horns and let him do it on keys, or stick with the Hammond. Muddy, harmonic and tonal clutter. Pete

[Rick K.]

I like Emerill's band! Rick

[Gtoledo3]

Just noticed that Dave got a TEC award for the sound on the show :p

[totemspock]

I think the guitarist with the headphones is pretty. I like when they play everlong with foo fighters, wich they do alot..

[D_dup3]

Considering some of the comments, I guess they must (as I posited earlier) mix for high-end receivers, so cats like Dan S. or me are just not gonna hear the band well. [I do recall that Neil Jason was quite prominent in his appearances as Lee's sub about a decade ago] Maybe they should do that old rock engineer trick & check it over the cheap speakers.

[Monkey Mouse]

I actaually got to hear the band live at a Letterman taping 2 years ago - it sounded excellent. They have one hell of a system for the small audience they have in that place - I did sit on the top tier, which is gonna sound bettter than the lower, flat floor area. I actually sat right next to the SR mixer, which was an analog monster - maybe 60 channels or so, very nice set-up. Since I never stay up late enough to see it on TV, I can assume that they totally ruin it from the taping to the time it hits your TV.