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I use a Bellari Tube Exciter and really like the results. The highs are crisper, less harsh and the low end is punchier.

 

I'm running an S80 (mostly piano) and CX3 into a Mackie 1402, into the Bellari and then to a pair of Mackie SRM450s and/or the FOH.

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I thought an exciter was designed to replicate the "live" sound in a home or studio situation. The higher the frequency the faster it travels. Bass and treble frequences get our of phase when the sound travels from stage to audience. This causes bass and treble frequences to get out of phase. An aurel exciter mimics this effect so in reality, if you use an exciter on stage double the effect. Is this correct?

 

Robert

This post edited for speling.
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Originally posted by sevush:

I use a Bellari Tube Exciter and really like the results. The highs are crisper, less harsh and the low end is punchier.

 

I'm running an S80 (mostly piano) and CX3 into a Mackie 1402, into the Bellari and then to a pair of Mackie SRM450s and/or the FOH.

Hey Sevush,

 

Are you using the RP562? Can you tell me approx. what they go for? I read about it on the Bellari site, but can't find it for sale online.

I am using a Kurz PC2r & CX3. Off the topic; I am very interested in the SRM450's. How is the low end? I wish Mackie would make that cab with a 15".

 

Thanks,

 

Surreal :thu:

Surreal :cool:
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Originally posted by Rabid:

I thought an exciter was designed to replicate the "live" sound in a home or studio situation. The higher the frequency the faster it travels. Bass and treble frequences get our of phase when the sound travels from stage to audience. This causes bass and treble frequences to get out of phase. An aurel exciter mimics this effect so in reality, if you use an exciter on stage double the effect. Is this correct?

 

Hey Rabid,

 

My understanding of the benifits of using an "Exciter" whether on stage or in a studio, is to be able to add "punch" to certain frequencies without changing overall gain. The combination of splitting the original signal (one to the output, the other to filters & e.q.'s produce this effect. When I have used this effect in "live" situations, I never felt that there was any "translation" loss or "double" effect.

 

Surreal :idea:

 

Robert

Surreal :cool:
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Originally posted by Botch:

Originally posted by Rabid:

The higher the frequency the faster it travels.

 

Robert

BRA-A-A-A-PPP!!! Wrong Answer!

The speed of sound in air is independent of the frequency.

I dug out some of my old physics books from my college days just to make sure I was not delusional. Although entry level physics gives us a constant for the speed of sound a study of physics on the atomic level explains a slight variation in the speed as frequencies shift from one end of the spectrum to the other. Consider this case. A pure C3 tone vibrates at twice the speed of a C2. As this tone vibrates sound is carried by the transfer of energy, in this case vibration, to surrounding particles. That is why there is no sound in space. The denser the surrounding matter, the more efficient the transfer of sound. As higher frequencies vibrate as faster speeds than lower frequencies there is a chance that the higher frequency tone would be first to effect surrounding mass. This is not always the case, but the law of averages wins out. Over time and space this can cause a slight phase effect between high and low frequencies. There are other factors that come into play that prevent C3 from traveling at twice the speed of C2. Space between atoms and the fact that vibrations travel two ways prevent speed from being a direct ratio to frequency. The space between atoms can be compared to the space between suns in the galaxy. This large relative distance keeps variation of speed to a very small ratio. Note that sound and subsonic vibrations travel faster through solids than through gas. This is why you feel the vibrations of an explosion before you hear it.

 

As a test or confirmation of these principles listen to an explosion or clap of thunder. Forget the trailing low rumble. This is more of an echo than result of sound travel. Listen to the initial sound. The first split second when frequencies first reach your ears. The highest frequencies reach you first and the sound is almost like someone takes a high pass filter and quickly opens it so that low frequencies can pass.

 

Robert

This post edited for speling.
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There have been speakers which were designed specifically for this effect - the tweeter or horn set back a few inches from the front edge of the woofer. I remember seeing physics materials which indicated that different frequencies do indeed travel through mass at different velocities, though I couldn't possibly reference them.

 

Originally posted by Botch:

Originally posted by Rabid:

The higher the frequency the faster it travels.

 

Robert

BRA-A-A-A-PPP!!! Wrong Answer!

The speed of sound in air is independent of the frequency.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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Hmmm, now I'M going to have to dig out my old physics text. I don't think your thunder example can be used, I believe you hear higher frequencies at first because that's how thunder sounds, lightning superheats the air and causes it to expand rapidly at first, but air being a compressible fluid the sound frequencies go down as the expansion spreads. But, I'm not positive, I'll look some stuff up tonight and probably post again if I find anything concrete.

 

I do remember those "phase-aligned" speakers from a few years ago, where the tweeter is mounted further back. I believe the explanation they gave was to align the CORE of the speakers (i.e. the voicecoils) in a vertical line; they weren't compensating for different frequency velocities (if my memory serves). You don't see them for sale any more, my guess is having half the tweeter field "masked" by the body of the speaker created more problems than the "phase-alignment" solved.

Botch

"Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will

www.puddlestone.net

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Originally posted by sevush:

I use a Bellari Tube Exciter and really like the results. The highs are crisper, less harsh and the low end is punchier.

 

I'm running an S80 (mostly piano) and CX3 into a Mackie 1402, into the Bellari and then to a pair of Mackie SRM450s and/or the FOH.

Hey Sevush,

 

I was curious as to if you can seperate the tube from the exciter; and also if you can have two different levels of effect at the same time; ex: S80 w/slight tube exciter enhancement, CX3--more. ?

Also, are you using an outboard E.Q. ?

Finally; are there other manufacturers of stereo tube exciters that you have A/B against the Bellari? Thanks for any answers.

 

Surreal :cool:

Surreal :cool:
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Originally posted by sevush:

I use a Bellari Tube Exciter and really like the results. The highs are crisper, less harsh and the low end is punchier.

 

I'm running an S80 (mostly piano) and CX3 into a Mackie 1402, into the Bellari and then to a pair of Mackie SRM450s and/or the FOH.

Hey Sevush,

 

When you run your CX3 into your Mackie...then thru your tube, do you have any problems. This is essentially what I wanted to do with my gear (CX3, Mackie 1202, Presonus Blue Tube).

Yesterday in the thread re: "distortion" Byrdman pointed out to me that this might cause problems as we would be reversing the correct order between tube and Leslie causing a cross-modulation.

 

Surreal :confused:

Surreal :cool:
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Originally posted by SurrealMcCoyJazz:

Hey Sevush,

 

Are you using the RP562? Can you tell me approx. what they go for? I read about it on the Bellari site, but can't find it for sale online.

I am using a Kurz PC2r & CX3. Off the topic; I am very interested in the SRM450's. How is the low end? I wish Mackie would make that cab with a 15".

 

Thanks,

 

Surreal :thu:

Yes, it's the 562. I paid $120 used from Guitar Center - try eBay. There's a review at http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/1997_articles/jul97/bellarirp562.html

 

I think the low end of the SRM450s are amazing - for 12". You will never know that they are NOT 15" - really. If you need to play bass, get a subwoofer, but I find there's more low end than I need coming out of them.

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Originally posted by SurrealMcCoyJazz:

Hey Sevush,

 

I was curious as to if you can seperate the tube from the exciter; and also if you can have two different levels of effect at the same time; ex: S80 w/slight tube exciter enhancement, CX3--more. ?

Also, are you using an outboard E.Q. ?

Finally; are there other manufacturers of stereo tube exciters that you have A/B against the Bellari? Thanks for any answers.

 

Surreal :cool:

The tubes ARE the sound and help warm things up. I don't even know of any other tube exciters. I have not A/B'd them against a BBE unit, but it's amazing how the high notes of the piano stand out, sound great and not brittle or harsh at all.

 

No outboard EQ at all.

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Originally posted by SurrealMcCoyJazz:

Hey Sevush,

 

When you run your CX3 into your Mackie...then thru your tube, do you have any problems. This is essentially what I wanted to do with my gear (CX3, Mackie 1202, Presonus Blue Tube).

Yesterday in the thread re: "distortion" Byrdman pointed out to me that this might cause problems as we would be reversing the correct order between tube and Leslie causing a cross-modulation.

 

Surreal :confused:

It's not "correct" but then again, I'm not doing this for distortion, I'm using the Bellari tubes for warmth.

 

If I wanted to apply distortion, I would do it on a per instrument basis.

 

(Hope this officially ends the series of "Hey Sevush" posts :D )

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