Sylver Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]Websters defines talent: [b] 1 a : any of several ancient units of weight b : a unit of value equal to the value of a talent of gold or silver 2 archaic : a characteristic feature, aptitude, or disposition of a person or animal 3 : the natural endowments of a person 4 a : a special often creative or artistic aptitude b : general intelligence or mental power : ABILITY 5 : a person of talent or a group of persons of talent in a field or activity[/b][/quote]Obviously, definitions 3,4 & 5 are the ones that have the most meaning to a bunch of musicians. But talent is so arbitrary. One person might think that Bob Dylan is immensly talented, where someone else might think he's a hack. What defines talent to you? An artist's virtuosity? The ability to convey feelings through thier art? The ability to improvise? The ability to perform technical feats that other artists in the same area hold in awe? The ability to create huge volumes of art? The ability to connect to an audience and communicate a thought, mood or feeling? How good they can move thier butt in tight jeans? The ability to make money? Is it something else completely to you? Is it even worth discussing? Sorry, just feel like waxing philosophic today. I really don't know what to put here.
Jotown Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 The ability to convey feelings through thier art. If you can't do that, you may be a very proficient craftsperson, but not an artist. Since Madonna's name has come up a few times lately I will use her as an example. She is pretty good at he craft of dance, she is very gifted as a publicity seeker and business person. She certainly knows how to package herself and market sex. None of that makes her an artist. But a pop star. True talent of a musical type has little or nothing to do with her success. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great"
Sylver Posted November 11, 2002 Author Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]The ability to convey feelings through thier art. If you can't do that, you may be a very proficient craftsperson, but not an artist. Since Madonna's name has come up a few times lately I will use her as an example. She is pretty good at he craft of dance, she is very gifted as a publicity seeker and business person. She certainly knows how to package herself and market sex. None of that makes her an artist. But a pop star. True talent of a musical type has little or nothing to do with her success.[/b][/quote]But couldn't it be said that Madonna conveys her feelings through her craft? I mean, if she, the person is mostly about sex, then, she portrays exactly what she intends. She has been pretty darn sucessful at it too. And isn't knowing how to present and sell yourself part of talent? Who said that "Talent is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration." I really don't know what to put here.
Sylver Posted November 11, 2002 Author Posted November 11, 2002 Hmmmmm ... maybe this topic is too broad. I'll bump it once anyway, because I think it's interesting. I really don't know what to put here.
Jotown Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]But couldn't it be said that Madonna conveys her feelings through her craft? I mean, if she, the person is mostly about sex, then, she portrays exactly what she intends.[/quote]All artists convey their feelings through their craft. A song about sex is great, but a career about sex is manipulation, not talent. So at it's very best it is a talent at manipulation. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great"
Sylver Posted November 11, 2002 Author Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b] [quote]But couldn't it be said that Madonna conveys her feelings through her craft? I mean, if she, the person is mostly about sex, then, she portrays exactly what she intends.[/quote]All artists convey their feelings through their craft. A song about sex is great, but a career about sex is manipulation, not talent. So at it's very best it is a talent at manipulation.[/b][/quote]Manipulation? Maybe obsession too. I really don't know what to put here.
S_Gould Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 Hmmm... I've always thought of talent as the predeliction for making good (maybe even great) artistic decisions, despite (or perhaps within) ones limits of technical expertise or proficiency. It isn't exactly instinctive, nor totally acquired, but some combination of the 2. Scott
Jotown Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by S_Gould: [b]Hmmm... I've always thought of talent as the predeliction for making good (maybe even great) artistic decisions, despite (or perhaps within) ones limits of technical expertise or proficiency. It isn't exactly instinctive, nor totally acquired, but some combination of the 2. Scott[/b][/quote]I wouldn't disagree with that Scott. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great"
michael saulnier Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 Talent is a subjective thing. For many of us, who are musicians, engineers, composers, producers, and so on... it may seem obvious that say, one artist is talented, and another not... But our view of it is filtered through our experiences and beliefs. Others, given the same list would certainly have different opinions. If you ask a non-industry person whether someone like Madonna is "talented", I assure you they will probably think they are. Most non-musicians seem to believe that the ability or "talent" to play music is a lucky chance, a "born to be" type situation that THEY weren't... Most don't realize that most kids (who are not too self-conscious to restrict it), will sing along with music, dance, play "air instruments" and do other "musical" stuff... Most, it they applied themselves, could probably become competent singers, maybe instrumentalists. But most don't. Since they don't, they think those that do have a unique "talent" they don't possess. But almost always the development of that talent is the main factor in separating two people starting at the same level. So my answer to "what is talent" is... it's what YOU think it is. guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com
Moronix Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 Talent is like porn. It is almost impossible to completely define, But everyone knows it when they see (or hear) it. And it may boil down to how well some one can shake their ass in tight jeans. for others it may be how they pluck one note on an instrument. BY THE WAY; talent has NOTHING to do with drive and/or ambition Robert Morin Now really not at Alesis
Super 8 Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b] If you can't do that, you may be a very proficient craftsperson, but not an artist. Since Madonna's name has come up a few times lately I will use her as an example. None of that makes her an artist. But a pop star. True talent of a musical type has little or nothing to do with her success. [Talent is...] The ability to convey feelings through thier art. [/b][/quote]Jotown, define "art"? Define "Artist"? Define "Popstar"? The term 'artist' implies talent. The term 'Popstar' implies celebrity. One isn't an Artist OR a Popstar, anymore than one would be a human OR a female. You are mixing classifications. Take, for example, Kelly Osbourne (Ozzy's daughter, who apparently has some music out). She has attained 'celebrity status' for being part of the show "The Osbournes" -talent had nothing to do with that, she was just there and lived life in front of the camera. Now, she has gained more media attention by releasing a cover of "Papa Don't Preach". So now she's arguably become a Popstar -which is basically a 'kind' of celebrity. Does this make her an Artist? No. Does it mean she is talented? No. Does she have talent? Maybe. Does her current status preclude her from being an Artist? No, of course not! It has NOTHING to do with it! (Phil O'Keefe would probably know better, since his daughter is apparently friends with Kelly.) Now lets take Paul McCartney. Is he a celebrity? Yes, very much so. Is he a Popstar? The term 'Popstar' could be applied to Paul, yes. Is he an Artist? Well, yes of course he is! But by your definition he can't be BOTH an Artist AND a Popstar. How can that be possible when it's obvious that he is? You are implying a relationship between terms where none exists. There is NO relationship between Celebrity and Artist. They are entirely different classifications. Super 8 Hear my stuff here
Super 8 Posted November 11, 2002 Posted November 11, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Sylver: [b] Who said that "Talent is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration."[/b][/quote]You are refering to Thomas Edison, Sylver. And he said: "[b]Genius[/b] [i](not talent)[/i]is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." So remember to pack extra deodorant!!! :mad: Super 8 Hear my stuff here
Sylver Posted November 12, 2002 Author Posted November 12, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Sylver: [b] Who said that "Talent is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration."[/b][/quote]You are refering to Thomas Edison, Sylver. And he said: "[b]Genius[/b] [i](not talent)[/i]is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." So remember to pack extra deodorant!!! :mad: [/b][/quote]Hey, it could work for talent too! Good points in the post before that, btw, Super. I really don't know what to put here.
Tedster Posted November 12, 2002 Posted November 12, 2002 I think talent is natural ability, God given if you will, to exceed at a given pursuit. Some folks have to really work at, say, becoming a good athlete. Some folks never get it. Still other folks seem to be able to make it happen with much less effort. Talents exist not only in music, art, and athletics, but business, academics, etc. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
Anifa Posted November 12, 2002 Posted November 12, 2002 I would define talent as an ability to mold self expression into audio or visual art; the ability to bring forth thought into substantial existence. Interpretation of the audience determines who and what the actual talent is. As an old cliche' states, "There is someone for every one;" so does this theory apply to talent. I wrote a poem that addresses this very thought. [url=http://www.musicbizbuzz.net/mbb/Inspirationals/diversity.htm]Diversity[/url] You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music"
Sylver Posted November 12, 2002 Author Posted November 12, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Tedster the Pilgrim: [b]I think talent is natural ability, God given if you will, to exceed at a given pursuit. Some folks have to really work at, say, becoming a good athlete. Some folks never get it. Still other folks seem to be able to make it happen with much less effort. Talents exist not only in music, art, and athletics, but business, academics, etc.[/b][/quote]If it's a natural talent, then you're saying it's more nature than nurture? I really don't know what to put here.
Tedster Posted November 12, 2002 Posted November 12, 2002 I think both apply, but, I think nature plays a big part in who will get it and who won't. I mean, we could take all of the people, for the sake of a control group, say all of the males on this board, and put 'em under good coaching in the gym. Coach 'em all to become powerlifters. A few would take to it like a duck to water. Some would be able to make a good showing only after extreme effort...and some would just not do well at all. It's a combination of things, though. Some may not do well because they really have no desire to become powerlifters. Others may have some injury or physical limitation getting in the way. I remember watching a martial arts class here in KC a few years back. There were two young boys, both green belts (which in that style was a relatively advanced rank). One of the boys did all of his moves relatively effortlessly...while the other, while you could tell he was really trying, was not near as smooth. That said, that's not to say that people, with enough effort, can't excel at something they're not particularly talented at, they just may not be the next "Bruce Lee" at whatever they do. But that doesn't mean they can't have a great time doing it. I'll never play guitar like Stevie, or sing like, oh, say Robert Plant or whoever, but, I can do my best with what I have. I believe everyone has something that they especially shine at. The trick is to find out what it is, and maximize it...and not get discouraged when you find the thing you're really talented at, and know that there are still other people who can do it better. Because, after all, the only person you really have to top is yourself. I don't have to be Stevie Ray Vaughan to enjoy playing guitar, or Bruce Lee to learn enough martial arts to help me in a tricky situation or develop physical fitness. The key is enjoyment. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
Sylver Posted November 12, 2002 Author Posted November 12, 2002 But Ted, I thought you WERE Bruce AND Stevie! I see your points, but does that make talent the same as aptitude? Maybe aptitude differs in that is [i]potential[/i], where talent is actually applied. And as Anifa said, talent is subjective, too. Funny, with a musician, talent cane be applied to so many aspects; performance, passion, improvisation, ability to connect with the audience. Take David Gilmore as an example. Not an overly technical player, but almost every guitarist(most musicians in general) carry a lot of respect for the man. Sorry to play devil's advocate, but I find this subject pretty interesting on a philosophical level. Talent is so hard to nail down. I really don't know what to put here.
Tedster Posted November 12, 2002 Posted November 12, 2002 Very subjective. Yeah...to me, aptitude carries the connotation that someone will be able to do well in a given area...like a job. "Little Johnny has an aptitude for becoming a (insert job here)". Talent carries more, perhaps, of an artsy connotation. Although there is a big grey area in which both apply. Heck, I don't know. I'm just guessing. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
Sylver Posted November 12, 2002 Author Posted November 12, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Tedster the Pilgrim: [b]Very subjective. Yeah...to me, aptitude carries the connotation that someone will be able to do well in a given area...like a job. "Little Johnny has an aptitude for becoming a (insert job here)". Talent carries more, perhaps, of an artsy connotation. Although there is a big grey area in which both apply. Heck, I don't know. I'm just guessing.[/b][/quote]No, Ted, we need an answer. After all you are THE authority around these parts. ;) I really don't know what to put here.
Tedster Posted November 12, 2002 Posted November 12, 2002 Hahaha...you're right on that one... If you define an authority is someone who has all of the answers, yet possesses none of the skills. :D Kinda like a movie critic. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
Jotown Posted November 12, 2002 Posted November 12, 2002 Super 8 wrote: [quote]Now lets take Paul McCartney. Is he a celebrity? Yes, very much so. Is he a Popstar? The term 'Popstar' could be applied to Paul, yes. Is he an Artist? Well, yes of course he is! But by your definition he can't be BOTH an Artist AND a Popstar. How can that be possible when it's obvious that he is? You are implying a relationship between terms where none exists. There is NO relationship between Celebrity and Artist. They are entirely different classifications [/quote]Slow down cowboy. I never said that an artist could not be a popstar, of course they can. But being a popstar, or a celebrity does not make one an artist. That is the distinction that I was trying to make. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great"
The Studio Pet-Rock Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 Talent: The result of having to much time on your hands. Some folks become quite talented at mass-murder. I chose the guitar instead. We're all good at something. :freak: But opinion has a lot to do with it as well. I think I'm talented. Most people who've heard me are of the same opinion. However, you might think I suck. Who cares? So we'll probably never do coffee. Fair enough. I'll stick close to the people who are kind enough to stroke my ego and call me "talented", and you can write and say terrible things about me. Because that's where your talent lies...
Sylver Posted November 13, 2002 Author Posted November 13, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by mdpetrick@yahoo.com: [b] Because that's where your talent [i]lies[/i]...[/b][/quote]Interesting double meaning in there! I really don't know what to put here.
Wewus432 Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 "Talent? What is talent? I don't know nuttin' 'bout no talent. I'm a businessman. See? Lookat dis suit. Ain't it pretty? Cost me 5 Gs. You think I got this by having talent. Now get ya ass outta heah before I spenk ya. I got 'clientele' to meet wit. Like dat new singing group. Any of dose record stores dat don't recognize their talent better have good insurance, youknowwuddimean?" * * hey Tedster youse know anything 'bout talent?
D. Gauss Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 < Jotown Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 Yeah, But I think Pamela also has had alot of practice as well. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Sylver Posted November 13, 2002 Author Posted November 13, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]Yeah, But I think Pamela also has had alot of practice as well.[/b][/quote]Pam needs to be spanked. I really don't know what to put here. Jotown Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 It kind of reminds me of an Eddie Van Halen quote I once read Eddie said: "people always tell me I am gifted but that implies that I havent had to work real hard to to get this good. Yeah, I guess that I'm gifted, but I also had to practice, and practice, and practice, and practice......" See what I mean. ya' got to use your head to get a head. :love: Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Cup Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 Talent is an anagram of LATENT ! Latent is an anagram of TALENT ! CupMcMali...Hey don't blame me, I'm innocent. ...This monkey's gone to heaven :freak: Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Archived This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.
Jotown Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 Yeah, But I think Pamela also has had alot of practice as well. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great"
Sylver Posted November 13, 2002 Author Posted November 13, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]Yeah, But I think Pamela also has had alot of practice as well.[/b][/quote]Pam needs to be spanked. I really don't know what to put here.
Jotown Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 It kind of reminds me of an Eddie Van Halen quote I once read Eddie said: "people always tell me I am gifted but that implies that I havent had to work real hard to to get this good. Yeah, I guess that I'm gifted, but I also had to practice, and practice, and practice, and practice......" See what I mean. ya' got to use your head to get a head. :love: Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great"
Cup Posted November 13, 2002 Posted November 13, 2002 Talent is an anagram of LATENT ! Latent is an anagram of TALENT ! CupMcMali...Hey don't blame me, I'm innocent. ...This monkey's gone to heaven :freak:
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