Synthesizer

[Imbecilia]

Is there still a use for analogue synths in serious electronic music?

 

Is there still serious electronic music?

 

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

[Postman]

I hate zero reply topics. It just seems so cold.

 

Is there still a use for analogue synths in serious electronic music?

Absolutely. Isn't electronic music defined by its use of synths?

 

Is there still serious electronic music?

Yep. I've even heard some of the non-tonal stuff recently.

 

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

Not likely. VAs are more affordable and musicians aren't typically rolling in extra cash.

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

You mean did VAs remind people how much better the old analog synths sounded? Maybe. Ok, sure, I'll go with that.

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

Beats me. It's awfully expensive now, though.

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

This is a loaded question, no? You don't appreciate Roland's recent efforts?

 

There, now you have one reply.

[Tusker]

Is there still a use for analogue synths in serious electronic music?

 

There will always be purist analog types releasing music, but I assume you are talking about market acceptance.

 

I'll say yes, but the analogueness will not be centerstage. I suspect that era is over for good. Analog synths may be used in conjunction with other tools. Best tool for the job.

 

Is there still serious electronic music?

 

I think there can be. But I suspect it will not be purely electronic. We are in an age when the same/similar result can be accomplished many different ways, so the focus is less on the process and more on the result.

 

It will be interesting to see if we actually have more creative types of music with all the great tools we are getting.

 

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

 

I suspect the term VA will go out of fashion, just because things do. I hope the VA algorithms get improved and stick around. I dunno if they will. I think the real threat is soft-synths. The more we push the performer into the computer, the less likely we are to have a performance sensibility with electronic music. (Maybe a laptop culture with crazy controllers will develop and prove me wrong. )

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

 

I suspect someone else would have done what Clavia did anyway.

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

 

I hope so. We need a revolution real bad.

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

 

 

Jerry

[RABid]

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

 

I'm still waiting to see if this is truly a new form of synth, or just a bit of hocus pocus like the Roland V-Drums.

 

Robert

[Magpel]

Indeed, if it uses *real* human neurons procured on the anatomical black market, it will be revolutionary and and controversial.

[Superbobus]

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

 

That's what I meant on the "missed the boat" thread! Prefab, prefab, prefab, although choir and orchestral stuff is way realistic. But IMHO that's not what a synth was meant for.

[Bobro]

The Nord Lead is a virtual analog, the Andromeda is an analog synth. What's the connection? Maybe the market- maybe it could be said that the popularity of the Nord Lead paved the way for a resurgence of real analog synths, but I don't know.

 

As far as the other questions, beats me. "Electronic" has unfortunately become largely synonymous with the Polkanova (doontz doontz doontz). As Nabokov said- "there are no great books without great readers" and to paraphrase a hippy slogan, "what if we had a revolution and nobody came?".

 

-Bobro

[aeon]

Is there still a use for analogue synths in serious electronic music?

Absolutely. They bring a tone color to the music that is unique and desired by many synthesists in electronic music. That said, analog has become a flavor and not the main part of the meal.

 

Is there still serious electronic music?

Yes, and more of it is released every day than I can keep up with.

 

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

No, but the marketing term VA will die...and when it does the VA-makers will start to stretch beyond the VA paradigm...this has already begun.

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

I think so. I dont think the motivation to build the Andy came from the appearance of VA machines, but they could have been the sign that the market-time was correct for the Andy release.

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

I dont know enough to say except that at the current price point, it will not be.

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

As long as Roland continues to make money manufacturing prosumer-oriented devices, my guess would be no. What strikes me as odd is that Roland could leverage the name recognition created by the electronic-music revolution of the early 90s (whose creators used much vintage Roland gear) and produce a device that would specifically target that market...but they do not do so. As such, Access, Waldorf and Clavia eat their lunch. I dont know if it is a lack of vision, the effects of the Japanese economy over the last 10 years or an embrace of a comfortable mediocrity.

[Felix_dup1]

What strikes me as odd is that Roland could leverage the name recognition created by the electronic-music revolution of the early 90s (whose creators used much vintage Roland gear) and produce a device that would specifically target that market...but they do not do so.

Isn't that what the JP8000, SH32, DR202, MC-303/505/307, SP-303/808/505 did?

 

Granted, Roland still stubbornly refuse to make an analog synth, but more electronica musicians than not have a JP8000 in their setup. And grooveboxes, though clearly now yesterday's news, are more canned than a TB303 or TR808. Still, Roland clearly relied on the reputation of their vintage gear to promote these products succesfully.

 

My question would be - How committed is Roland to these kinds of products in the future? Except for the SH32, it's been a while since I've seen a big product announcement along these lines.

[Imbecilia]

In Germany we call toys (yes, for children!) like JP-80X0 or SH-32 "Tisch-Hupe". (A car horn you put on a desk).

 

What Roland does is in no way logical or intelligent or something like that. It`s idiotic. They are insane.

[Felix_dup1]

Is there still a use for analogue synths in serious electronic music?

Definitely! I can't imagine a serious electronic musician ruling these out as sound sources.

 

Is there still serious electronic music?

Yes, there is.

 

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

No, but I bet you'll see continued integration of VA/VA-like features on romplers and other synths (i.e. realtime control knobs, filters, yamaha's plg-an type stuff). I also think that the VA's have seen and will continue to see tremendous pressure from softsynths. Perhaps we could hope for softsynth capabilities integrated into a hardware interface (like the new Creamware beast shown at Musicmesse).

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

I think so. I think there was an Andromeda because Alesis was willing to do what no one else had the balls to.

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

Neuronal synthesis is currently niche-y at best. Too expensive, no widespread distribution, etc. No more a revolution than granular synthesis, etc. We're spoiled by the many options that exist now in hardware and software synths.

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

If you ask them, they're building synths. Whether romplers or not, I agree that they're synths. As to whether they'll build an analog synth again, I doubt it.

[RABid]

I like the SH-32 and I don't see any of the European "VA" companies putting out anything that competes with it. Just becaue it is half the price of a Novation Laptop doesn't mean it is a toy. Only the A-Station comes close in value.

 

When is the Virus-C line due to hit the market? I notice teh web site list the B line as discontinued except for the rack. After reading the specs on the B-rack I would much prefer to waite for the C-Rack.

 

Robert

[Imbecilia]

Originally posted by Rabid:

I like the SH-32 and I don't see any of the European "VA" companies putting out anything that competes with it. Just becaue it is half the price of a Novation Laptop doesn't mean it is a toy. Only the A-Station comes close in value.

 

When is the Virus-C line due to hit the market? I notice teh web site list the B line as discontinued except for the rack. After reading the specs on the B-rack I would much prefer to waite for the C-Rack.

 

Robert

Maybe in the US the prices are different. For the price of a SH-32 (which has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with any other Roland SHs) you`ll get a used Virus A in Germany or a Nord Micro Modular. That is value.

 

I think you can`t buy european synths in the US because they are so expensive but in Germany you won`t find American guitars except F. & G. no more...

[Superbobus]

Man, I'm not up to date when it comes to synths! I still thought Roland was in the XP/JV/XV zone... Just saw a pic of the SH-32 and their back with knobs. Imbecilia, is it the way it sounds, or the fact that it's not a VA? (I still didn't hear the thing so tell me what's wrong with it)

[Imbecilia]

Is it not a VA? Anyway...

 

It sounds terrible - for me.

You can get better machines for sure.

[RABid]

I guess that is where different people want different things. After playing with one for an hour or so was amazed at the sound it makes. Considering it goes for $450 US and has lots of knobs and sliders I thing they did very well. What else in that price range is 4 part multitimbral with 32 note poliphony?

 

Robert

[Imbecilia]

Originally posted by Rabid:

I guess that is where different people want different things. After playing with one for an hour or so was amazed at the sound it makes. Considering it goes for $450 US and has lots of knobs and sliders I thing they did very well. What else in that price range is 4 part multitimbral with 32 note poliphony?

 

Robert

Better buy Reason + PocketDial.

[RABid]

What is PocketDial?

 

I have Reason, but it is software which runs under Windows. Going that route you are better off with Reaktor and Tasman than with any of the Eruopean VA synths.

 

Robert

[Imbecilia]

PocketDial makes Reason Hardware.

[Superbobus]

I used Reason on a mac like a month ago. GREAT! Especially their drums and the way you can make cheap Commodore 64 sounds.

[burningbusch]

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

 

I hope so. How many variations of analog synth model do we need? If I counted correctly Waldorf has six versions of the Q alone!!! The VAs are over priced, IMHO. An NL3 retails at $2700, Q $3000, Indigo $2500. That's analog territory. The way I see it software should sell for a few hundred dollars, VA hardware between $500-$1200, and real analogs above that. Look at it this way, if Bomb Factory came out with a hardware version (with knobs) of either the LA2A or 1176, would you pay $2000+ for it? Why? You can buy actual hardware recreations for that price from UA--not software in a box. The Noah does look very interesting. Nine models instead of one, less than $2000 list. If they do an exceptional job on the guitar and bass models, it could be very interesting indeed.

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

 

Bigger question is, would there be a NordLead if Yamaha hadn't come up with the first commercially available physical modeling synth, the VL1? As I recall, Yamaha helped fund in a big way the research into PM at Stanford University. Stanford also provided Yamaha with FM years earlier. Interestly, the VL1 can produce the simple saw/square->filter->envelopes of the VAs. One of the sound designers discovered this early on and they wrote a small program that lets you program the VL1 like an VA. It uses a very tiny bit of the capabilities of the VL1. The sad part is that the first implementation of PM, the VL1, is still the most sophisticated and advanced. In comparison, the VAs look like Tisch-Hupe (I learned a new word so I'm compelled to use it).

 

I hope there are many more Andromedas, obsoleting the VAs (or at least moving them down the price chain). This would free PM to move forward into new and more interesting areas.

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

 

If you're talking specifically about Neuron Synth, it's obviously very hard to tell at this point. Challenges for Mr. Hartmann are distribution in places like the USA. It was several years before Nordleads were commonly seen in music stores here. Additionally, it doesn't appear that he has anything proprietary going on, so if it's hot, how long will it take for a NI type software company to make a soft version at 1/10th the price?

 

From what I can surmise from the info at his site, it analyzes (or samples) an instrument in order to create a model, which has certain paramters that can be manipulated. At NAMM, I asked him what the underly technology was and he said it was similar to the Roland's VP and Celemony. Which I assume is some of what's happening during the manipulation via the joysticks.

 

We do need something new. I wish him luck.

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

 

Only Tisch-Hupe I'm afraid. Actually if Roland came out with a 8-voice true analog with the UI of the JP-80X0 and carried a $2995 retail, that would be hot.

 

Anyhow, I've probably been too hard on the VAs--just trying to make a point. I love all the great stuff coming out of Europe and especially Germany. I like the stuff from the Far East as well. Get as much money as you can out of those fat, stupid Americans--they'll buy anything.

 

Busch.

[Magpel]

Where can I get a good Tisch-hupe sample?

 

I love these threads, hearing the likes of Busch, Aeon, Dave, all of ya, expounding on the narrative contour of synth history and evolution. Really. It's, like, better than TV. Even better than Jackass, which is pretty darned good.

[Dan South]

Is there still a use for analogue synths in serious electronic music?

 

Is there still serious electronic music?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "serious." From my vantage point it seems that synths are more widely used today than ever before.

 

Will VAs die because of new analogue monsters and soft-synths?

 

Virtual technology of all types will get better and better. Virtual analog will always be less expensive than the hardware equivalent, because processor and memory price/performance ratios increase rapidly, while analog component pricing is flat.

 

Would there be an Andromeda without the NordLead?

 

Don't even mention those two in the same sentence, okay? I HATE the sound of the nord, even if it DID start a mini-revolution.

 

Will the neuronal synthesis be a revolution?

 

Depends on many factors: ease of use/cost/ability to control parameters/program libraries (face it, many users REFUSE to program a synth, even one that's easy to program).

 

Will Roland ever built a synth again?

 

A synth? Without a doubt. An ANALOG synth? There's a chance, but...

 

---

 

VA's that sound REALLY good:

 

SubTraktor (Propellerheads - a component of Reason)

Pro 52 (Native Instruments)

ES2 (Emagic - runs under Logic 5.1)

 

VA's that sound reasonably good:

 

ES2, ESM (Emagic)

JP-8000 (Roland)

ReBirth (Propellerheads)

 

There are many VA's that I have not yet had the privilege to hear.

[aeon]

burningbusch asked:

How many variations of analog synth model do we need?

As many as the market will support.

 

burningbusch said:

The VAs are over priced, IMHO. An NL3 retails at $2700, Q $3000, Indigo $2500. That's analog territory.

Yeah, but no one pays retail (hopefully!). The Nord Lead 3 is easily found for under $1600...the Q is near that, and the Indigo sells for nearly $1000 less than the price you just quoted.

 

burningbusch said:

The way I see it software should sell for a few hundred dollars, VA hardware between $500-$1200, and real analogs above that.

Given the actual street prices I see on the market, this is exactly how the pricing structure is tiered.

 

burningbusch said:

Get as much money as you can out of those fat, stupid Americans--they'll buy anything.

Nice condescending attitude and slur against an entire nation of people. Now I know just how much weight to give your post.

[aeon]

Dan South said:

VA's that sound REALLY good:

SubTraktor (Propellerheads - a component of Reason)

 

I guess that just proves while something thing may sound good to one person, another person will not not understand why.

 

I think SubTraktor sounds bad, and is the Achilles Heel of Reason 1.x.

[burningbusch]

Aeon wrote:

 

Nice condescending attitude and slur against an entire nation of people. Now I know just how much weight to give your post.

 

================

 

LIGHTEN UP.

[burningbusch]

Aeon wrote:

 

Yeah, but no one pays retail (hopefully!). The Nord Lead 3 is easily found for under $1600...the Q is near that, and the Indigo sells for nearly $1000 less than the price you just quoted.

 

===============

 

Musicians Friend has the NL3 at $2200, zzounds has the Waldorf Q at $2300. Where are you finding these for $600 less than that?

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Aeon wrote:

 

...and the Indigo sells for nearly $1000 less than the price you just quoted.

 

===========

 

The Indigo is at that price because it's discountinued. Check out the access web site. The Indigo II replaces. They're just clearing out inventory. Rest assured that the average street price on the II will not be 40% off retail.

 

Busch.

[aeon]

burningbusch said:

LIGHTEN UP.

Sorry man, but your whole post had a tone that didnt hit me right, and when you didnt include an emoticon at the end line to indicate sarcasm or irony, I decided to issue the smackdown...my apologies.

 

burningbusch said:

The Indigo is at that price because it's discountinued.

That was the pricing before it was discontinued. For that matter, a friend just ordered the new Indigo 2 for 1501.53.

 

burningbusch said:

Musicians Friend has the NL3 at $2200, zzounds has the Waldorf Q at $2300. Where are you finding these for $600 less than that?

Musicians Friend is hardly a benchmark of good pricing. Try synthplanet.com...they have the Clavia Nord Lead 3 for $1482.79 USD...and the Waldorf Q keyboard 16-voice for $1569.74. Thats more than $600 less than the MF pricing.

 

Cheers,

aeon

[Rod S]

Originally posted by aeon:

Musician's Friend is hardly a benchmark of good pricing. Try synthplanet.com...they have the Clavia Nord Lead 3 for $1482.79 USD...and the Waldorf Q keyboard 16-voice for $1569.74. That's more than $600 less than the MF pricing.

I wonder how import taxes come into play here with these two since they are european synths when shipping to the US. Anybody know?

 

That's a good deal on the Q. For this price I would definitely get one. I know I will get killed with import taxes here in Brazil, so I won't even bother...