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Arpegiators on keyboards ...are we missing


Dan O

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I have posted before about how many use arpegiators on their keyboards for getting ideas . Not many people responded to this post ( I was a little surprised) . If the feature is not being used ......is it necessary to have arpegiators ? Are manufacturers missing something ? Are we missing something ? Just about every workstation has an arpegiator !

Just curios why ?

The skill level of your playing determines how you make your music .

I will say this right now , I do not consider myself to be a GREAT keyboardist . I have ideas though and I like to record those ideas .

Are we all so good that we can record every aspect of our music from scratch ? dB I know you can !I believe that arpegiators or samples or loops are to help people like me . What do you think ? dano

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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I don't use the arpegiators or patterns on my Karma, Fantom or XL-7. I do get some interresting ideas from the Karma but more for sounds than patterns. The one arpegiator I sometimes use it from Techno Toys. They have two different software versions that are cool and quite cheap. One is pattern based and you play a cord on your keyboard and it arpegiates. The other is more like the old analog type where you adjust sliders for note and up to four other parimetors. That is the one I like because you can adjust note, filter, resonance, velocity and one other parimetor in one pattern. As it runs you can keep tweeking and even hit a random key if you want. In random mode you can select a key that you want it to create the pattern in. Look it up under Techno Toys. They have a demo version that is very much worth a bit of your time just for the enjoyment. One of the very few "off of the net" programs I purchased.

 

Robert

This post edited for speling.
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I've never owned an arp'ing keyboard. I was of the opinion that arpegiators were for slackers and no talents.

 

However, I have played with the Korg Karma in the store and my opinion of the arpeggiator has changed. I think that for practice, fun and inspiration they are a good thing to have.

 

I still don't believe in using them for live performance or recording.

 

My $00.02

 

Carl

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I confess I have no idea what the thing is supposed to do. Several times I've inadvertently hit the wrong button or switch or something on the gig while playing a Kurzweil PC2, and it's activated the monster. Can it play in time? Can it swing? I'm not even sure I want to find out. That kind of stuff--along with Take-6 voices and the sounds of wind, rain, gulls--belongs on the low-end synthesizers at Walmart if you ask me.

 

Cap

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I've used an arp a couple times for ideas... but as a starting point. I'll usually save the pattern into CW and then go from there. I've gotten some interesting ideas.

 

I still think their usefulness is limited. If the manufacturer supplied some patterns that could be loaded into a sequencer, that would probably be just as useful for me.

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

MBP-LOGIC

American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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As a no-talent slacker who doesn't use arpeggiators I take exception to your remarks! lol

 

IMO it depends on the music you're making. For trance or dance I suppose you'd just sync it to whatever else is going on (I imagine the old Donna Summer track "I Feel Love" was done on an arp). Also, the one-note burble at the beginning of ELP's "Welcome Back My Friends" portion of KarnEvel9 has got to be an arpeggiator. There are plenty of other points where I hear them - I've been curious about it since I got an arp'ing synth. Haven't yet worked it into my music, though.

 

Originally posted by Krakit:

I've never owned an arp'ing keyboard. I was of the opinion that arpegiators were for slackers and no talents.

 

I still don't believe in using them for live performance or recording.

My $00.02

Carl

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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Yea know ......I kinda forgot how useful arpegiators were on some very BIG songs ! Baba O'Reilly from the WHO is one that comes to mind . The examples of Pink Floyd and ELP are great as well . dano

Thanks for the feedback

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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I use the Triton's arpeggiators (there are 2 of them) quite a bit. I'm not a drummer, so they are great for setting up a quick percussion or rythmic background to play off of. Even if you don't use arp drums in a song, it can serve as an easy starting point, and it's nice to play with them rather than the metronome click.

 

Sometimes, the arps are a major PART of the sound itself (esp. evolving pads, synth textures), meaning the sound is esentially useless without the rythmic textures going on while you hold a chord. I guess it all comes down to the style of music you're doing, but arps aren't for "talentless slackers" or anything like that. It's just a tool, arps won't make the music for you.

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Originally posted by coyote:

Also, the one-note burble at the beginning of ELP's "Welcome Back My Friends" portion of KarnEvel9 has got to be an arpeggiator.

 

 

No, that's "sample-and-hold", and the thing at the end of Third Impression is an analog step sequencer.

 

I like sequencers and arpeggiators. When used well, in a good song (it's always about the song, really), it brings something that can only be gotten that way. Baba o'Riley, Won't Get Fooled Again, Eminence Front, Who Are You, ...many Pink Floyd songs.

If the song sucks an arpeggiator or step sequence won't save or ruin it.

And if the song's great, ...the above examples show how cool they can be.

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Hi everyone,

I'm sort of forcing myself to at least explore the possibilities of arpeggiators on our Proteus 2500 simply because of the fact that i can use 32 of them at once, each on separate presets. Whether this is going to be creatively/musically useful is still in question, but i'm really anxious to at least give them a try. Using the Karma for a few weeks kind of got me stoked on them, but i also feel that they're sort of a "pure luck" kind of thing as to whether what they supply you with is going to fit the track. I do really like the fact that our arpeggiators output each note through MIDI so i can easily go through and wipe out the crap notes and only use the stuff i like. Going to be a long process though....but that's half the fun of synths really :)

Cheers,

Shiver

Rule #2: Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.
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They had sample-and-hold back in 1972? I wasn't aware of that - and I can duplicate the effect on my JP8000's arpeggiator.

 

Originally posted by steadyb:

No, that's "sample-and-hold", and the thing at the end of Third Impression is an analog step sequencer.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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I started using arpeggiators when I bought the Oberheim Cyclone. I did not find it real flexible and never used it on stage. On the other hand through 30 years of playing in groups I have run into similiar attitudes from other human musicians LOL. I also have a Karma and find it and its GE's generated effects or arpeggiations fun and intuitive. Korg is coming out with OS 2.0 which will allow for import of SMF's and manipulation of them in creation of new GE's. This flexibility should only improve the instrument's ability to follow the player's musical direction. Almost like playing in a band again, except the drummer won't steal my beer ;)
"Time to head down that old Colorado highway pardner."
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In dance music, the use of appregiators is almost expected. When I saw Moby, I don't think he had one tune he didn't trigger from his tritons arpeggiator. I rarely use the arp. on my rm1x, somtimes for background efx or drum ideas. However, the midi arp. features in DP are something I freely and frequently utilize during the mixing stages. Talk about creating new and unusual sounds. When I buy a keyboard with an arp. this good, I'll definitely use it. There's no shame in that. A good song is still a good song. I don't consider it 'cheating' - no more so than sampling or looping. ~nel

*

 

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The only time I use an arpeggiator on my K2600 is for effects. I'll use some tempo related thing along with a triggered sequence as a sophisticated program changer/wave sequencer thingy. Pretty cool and it creates some unique sonic textures. A great way to give animation to a pad.

Take Care,

 

George Hamilton

Yamaha US

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Hey George ,

I have seen Jordan Rudess perform on Kurzweil K2600xs with Rod Morganstein ! They were incredible Rudess/Morganstein project ! Do you have any idea how he ustilizes his keyboards ? I know he needs a footswitch ! dano

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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  • 1 month later...

I've only recently paid any serious attention to the arpeggiators I have.

 

No matter how sophisticated -- even including Karma -- I seem to find the results, for the way I play and compose, too repetitive to be interesting for more than a few seconds.

 

If I were to spend the time with it -- which I am, now -- the utility of an arpeggiated/GE'd sequence is in the creation of a potentially useful or interesting musical phrase.

 

Since I've _finally_ gotten a little deeper into sampling (after years of prejudice on this one, and, honestly, based on total lack of knowledge and experience), sampling a phrase produced by an arpeggiator/GE and then using that in a phrase-sample-based composition (not outright, but after being treated/sculpted in the sampler) is now interesting.

 

There's also a performance-oriented approach I've finally gotten to with arpeggiators, where, basically, I either a) turn the arpeggiator on/off in sync with my performance, basically thus doing real-time "slicing" of it; or b) if the arpeggiation is not held but initiates on note-on, and the arpeggiator is flexible enough to edit/control what happens at note-on (i.e. is the arpeggiation cycling continuously, does it always start at the same point when you hit the note, etc.), I edit the arpeggiator pattern to produce something that's intelligible in short bursts, then use the key performance to real-time "sculpt" the ensuing results. That can be very interesting, a lot of fun, non-repetitive and seems to be especially fun with the Karma.

 

rt

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Hi dano,

 

Have only fooled around with someone else's Karma (and enjoyed it immensely!), just using that for reference. I'd imagine any pad sound would be a good place to work out from, I was mainly focused on trying to make already-GE'd presets "playable" according to my own approach to things. Most of what I wrote though applies to use of more traditional arpeggiators.

 

I understand there are some complications with using the expansion cards with the GEs, possibly being solved by the soon-to-be-released update for the synth?

 

rt

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Hi Dano,

 

No, haven't had time, opportunity or interest to try out Triton LE. More of a Roland guy myself (prefer its sound).

 

Triton will interest me if/when Korg commits to a full-scale, professional workstation with Karma capabilities, upgrade in current sampling capabilities and inclusion of sequencer/ribbon.

 

OTOH if something like that were to show and the Andromeda were still being manufactured, they'd probably be at similar pricepoints and I _know_ -- if I had the money -- which of those two I'd buy. :thu:

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I'm hardcore program-it-yourselfer, but now that I have a keyboard that has an arpegiator and midi-sync-able lfos (Korg Z1), I've been really enjoying dabbling with it. The crushing irony, of course, is that the Z1 has a well-documented problem with MIDI drift and the arpeggiator is pretty much useless in sequencing. Oh well. I'll be looking into the softsynth alternatives.
Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp
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Originally posted by realtrance:

Magpel,

 

Do like Pharaoh Sanders and John Coltrane did before you, and just go with the flow, make the "mistakes" yours, _use_ the drift, become a master of MIDI sync drift and turn it into your signature sound! ;)

 

rt

That's a downright brilliant idea.
Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp
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