Dan O Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I am not talking about a DIET here .....I am talking about your RIG ! Are you making it less weight ? Wheels on everything ? A can of spinach ? Dano www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexternyc Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 sho 'nuff, dano! living in nyc you've got to be able to move your rig from the taxi IN ONE LOAD! otherwise it may not be there by the time you got back for the second..... i'm looking at those soft cases with wheels-are they sturdy enough for regular gigging abuse? also wondering whats the lightest and most portable stand. any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Smedberg Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 In the beginning I bought synths with keys (no modules) and when I performed I had a square of synths surrounding me. It looked nice but was a PITA to carry around. When I got tired of lifting aprox. 150kg before and after every gig, I started to streamline my rig. I ended up with two boards with keys (K2000 and a controller) and a rack with modules, mixer and fx. Somewhere you have to make a compromise. One synth will be replaced with an existing one that maybe don't sound as good as the first, but not having to carry all gear will make up for it. If the sound is so important that you'll be frustrated instead, you have to carry the extra weight. It's all up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 When I was a drummer I made those compromises. Fortunately, I'm now in a position where I won't take a gig if it means I cannot have what I want there (the Hammond console & the other keys). So strangely weight HAS become an issue, but in reverse LOL Besides, carying the Hammond means I don't have to go to the gym the next day Originally posted by Robert Smedberg: Somewhere you have to make a compromise. One synth will be replaced with an existing one that maybe don't sound as good as the first, but not having to carry all gear will make up for it. If the sound is so important that you'll be frustrated instead, you have to carry the extra weight. It's all up to you. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guestuserguestuser.com Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by dano: I am not talking about a DIET here .....I am talking about your RIG ! Are you making it less weight ? Wheels on everything ? A can of spinach ? Dano It sure has for me. I used to haul a Rhodes around from gig to gig. I loved that damn thing, but it wasn't good for my back. My rule of thumb now is, no individual peice of equipment should weigh more than 40 lbs. For me, 40 lbs is the limit of what I can comfortably carry with one arm. Yamaha with their P80 and P120 (and Technics before them with their P30, and now with their P50) have shown that you can make an 88-key weighted action keyboard under 40 lbs. By the way, I played a P120 last night. Nice! I'm buying one this weekend. [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: GuestUser@GuestUser.com ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyjoe Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 i find more of a problem than weight is the size of my case! i drive a hatch and the back seats fold down, but it's annoying getting the case in. it's got an xp-50 in it but is was designed to hold an ensoniq ts-10. very awkward! anyone got any suggestions to make things easier? i've thought of rollers on it. pray for peace, merry CHRISTmas, kendall "Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I seemed to have leveled off at about 182, which is a tad overweight for my slender 6' frame. The odd thing is that I've been eating horribly and not exercising for nealry half a year. I Wondered why my weight didn't change, then I realized: I lost all my muscle!! It's like LDL and HDL, bad and good weight. I'm not heavy but it's all bad weight at the moment. Only my wrists and forearms are well toned right now. Thanx, Mr. Hanon. Which brings up another issue: if you happen upon a BMI (Body Mass Index) calculator online somehwhere, take it with a big pinch of salt. It's a very simplistic way to suggest ideal weight, and it is being pushed *really* hard by pharmaceutical companies like Abbott and Roche (makers of Xenical and Meridia, coincidentally...). The current definition of obesity is totally insane. Obesity as a clinical calssification now begins between BMI 25 - 27, which is to say that I, at 6 feet, 182 lbs, am borderline obese. Them pharmaceutical companies want the profession to deal with obesity as legitimitae disease and not a cosmetic issue, but it's pretty bogus that they can influence clinical classifications in this way. Granted Obesity is a serious national health problem by virtue of its comorbidities--the diseases that markedly increase in prevalence among the obese, including diabetes, coronary artery disease, hypertention, and hyperlipidemia, i.e., a veritable super group of America's biggest killers. But fat drugs ain't the answer, esp. the ones that make you undies greasy. Oh, you meant *keyboard* weight. Sorry. Happy Holidays, all. I love you. John Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Just to put this in context, a standard BMI calculator would likely tell someone like Barry Sanders or Mike Tyson that he is *direly* overweight and on the verge of a myocardial infarction. Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Yes, I've been slimming down the rig over the years too, due to several factors: A. Tech advances, I can now get a decent piano, organ, analog synth, sampling etc. out of minimal gear. B. Higher income. I used to make my racks and my key cases out of plywood, they were durable and good looking but HEAVY, my Roland A-80 with its case was >90 lbs (I was actually injuring myself with that combo); they've all been replaced with commercial plastic/metal edge cases, much lighter. C. The realization that you don't need stereo when playing live. I used to use a Carver power amp and two Peavey 15" woofer/horn speakers, with stands. Half the time someone in the band complained they couldn't hear me so one speaker was pointing away anyway. Now I use a single Roland 100, their smallest keyboard amp, and if I can't hear it I tell the other guys to turn down (fortunately they're accomodating). As soon as I can find in-ear monitors that are both comfortable and inexpensive, I'll probably go that route. D. Advances in 88-weighted controllers. I've gone from a heavy A-80, to a mid-weight Kurzweil PC-100, and am currently eyeing those real thin, 30-lb jobbers, nice! One thing I won't skimp on is the keyboard stand. I play standing up and am 6'5", and can't stand a bouncing keyboard; I stick with an Ultimate A-frame that I've actually replaced the cross-bars on with thicker aluminum tubes than it normally comes with (had to do that to get the Kurz to fit). It holds the Kurz and a Yamaha EX-5, my Nord is on an x-frame stand that is sturdy but too short, I'm still looking. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 When I was gigging .... I played in small towns and cities. I owned a pick-up truck. My only limit was the ability to unload my gear by myself and get it back into my home. I never thought about the big city problem of needing to meet the restrictions of one load and a taxie. Maybe in a few years you can reduce down to a controller and a laptop. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coren Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 my rig requires 3-7 trips to the car, depending on what my need for the gig were. i deffinatly choose functionality over the wieght.. all the work of carrying those damn 80lb cabnets is worth it when you your playing on stage with a tone you can enjoy.. im just worried whats gonna happen when i start playing key's live.. guitar, bass, AND keyboard equipment?? just for me?!?! christmas or torture!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cg1155 Posted December 23, 2001 Share Posted December 23, 2001 Incidentaly, they do teach us doctors that when you are looking at a BMI you have to take into account whether or not the individual is very athletic, since persons who have an abnormal amount of muscle will have an abnormally high BMI. Also, pharmeceutical companies do not determine what the BMI cutoffs for overweight/obese are, these are determined by studies like the Framingham Massacheusets study that correlates BMI with illness. The most accurate way to determine what your % body fat is is to do a water diaplacement test. 2/3 of americans are overweight and 1/3 of americans are obese and treating the illnesses that go along with these diseases costs more than treating any other single health problem. So it would be great for all of us if we could keep more people from being overweight because we would all pay less in insurance premiums and taxes. Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted December 23, 2001 Share Posted December 23, 2001 Right now I'm not looking to buy anything for live playing. But when I do often the 1st question is how does it sound & the 2nd question is what does it weigh. I would rather make 3 trips than put 3 -40 lb things into some sort of 120 lb rack from hell. All of the gigs I do now have easy loading. When I was doing a lot of gigs downtown where all the bars are on 2nd floors or in basements, it was pretty annoying especially in the winter. Park, if you're lucky,the truck illegally in front of the bar, negotiate a snow bank, move stuff from truck to the entrance, hoping nobody steals stuff from the truck while you're inside. Then the dilemma - should I move my stuff upstairs or down & risk getting a ticket or move the truck & risk having something stolen. That part about playing downtown I don't miss. I do miss the money. Downtown gigs pay better & have a little more prestige. Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted December 23, 2001 Share Posted December 23, 2001 The weight of my rig when playing live has been an issue for me for a while now. Well, I am a one man band, so I usually carry everything with me by myself. I sometimes have a friend who I load my synth into his car. I have to find an alternative to carrying my KARMA around to any show I play. Its not too heavy, but its too damn big and bulky. That, and its my own synth, so I dont want anything to happen. Im thinking of picking a K-station to use live as that things is tiny and the two-octave keyboard wont be a problem for me. Or, I can get a cheap small 49 key midicontroller and use my Darkstar live. In the future, I plan on having only at least 2 small bags of equipment with me...one on my shoulders carrying stuff like cables, cd player, md recorder, backing CD, extra MDs, and probably one bag that I hold which carrys my synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted December 24, 2001 Share Posted December 24, 2001 I literally ruined my back by carrying around heavy keyboards. (Roland RD300, Rhodes Chroma, Rhodes electric piano...) I already got an operation on my back, and despite constant phisiotherapy, another operation seem to be on the horizon. I can't lift my Fatar Studio 2001 anymore without help, and even carrying the XP80 with its case by myself has become a bit of a problem. I have a small cart (is it the right English word?) with wheels, and I set my rack stuff so that I can bring two or three 2-rackspace cases rather than one big 6-space or so. I have waited for years for a keyboard with *fully weighted* keys at 33/34 lbs. I don't need 88 keys. Yamaha came close with the P80, which also has my favorite action - but not smaller version yet. Somebody make that idiot rule: 88keys, fully weighted, 76 keys "half weighted" (ha ha), 61 keys shitty synth action. In the next week/months, I'm gonna take a P80 and saw off both its ends! I'll post some pictures if it works... Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted December 24, 2001 Share Posted December 24, 2001 Originally posted by marino: I have waited for years for a keyboard with *fully weighted* keys at 33/34 lbs. Carlo I often said that - Can't they make a weighted keyboard without the weight. . . Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevush Posted December 24, 2001 Share Posted December 24, 2001 25 years ago I would lug some or all of a Hammond L100, 122 leslie, Rhodes 73, Clavinet, RMI electric "piano", Minimoog, ARP 2600, Fender bassman top/bottom... gee, wonder why I had a hernia operation when I was just 18? Back to the future... Yamaha S80 (50 lbs + case), new Korg CX3 (50 lbs w/case), Mackie SRM450 (50lbs) * 2, SKB popup mixer case w/Mackie 1402, Bellari Tube Exciter and other goodies (50lbs), plus roc-soc drummers throne, Xstands, cables, pedals, etc - another 75 lbs.. For a grand total of 300+ pounds and at least six trips. I live on the second floor, so just going to practice (also on 2nd floor!) is four setup/teardowns and schlepping of all gear. I've got the teardown/schlepp down to a half hour and the setup/schlepp to 45 minutes. I've got my eyes on an S30 as an S80 substitute - mushy keyboard but it's less than 20 pounds and can share the same patches (via smartmedia card) as the S80. I'm also looking at the Nord Electro, I'm afraid I'll buy one if I ever try it. The CX3 is great, but it's pretty heavy and only does one thing. The Nord won't allow me to layer, but I can get most of the single sounds I need quickly and carry it over my shoulder, like a guitarist. I do think the SRM450s in conjunction w/the mixer give me the ultimate flexibility. Pickup gig or jam where I need just one keyboard, I just bring an XLR/phone jack cord and plug directly into one SRM450. They're louder and cleaner than any keyboard amp I've heard and are so much more compact and flexible - mount on the floor facing up, on a speaker stand (forgot those in my weight list, add 40 lbs!), on the floor standing up, on top of another cabinet... I also really like the SKB pop up mixer case, but it only allows just 5" depth which can be a problem. I added 1.5" by using some long 1/4" bolts to extend the front panel mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted December 24, 2001 Share Posted December 24, 2001 Casey The Framingham study has been sorta the default data on incidence and prevalence for how long now? I've worked with that and I've worked with NHANES too. In my tangential exprience, I've seen enough to think Pharmaceutical companies do indirectly influence classifications and treatment guidelines--in fact through a grand and elaborate traditon of indirect influence on par with the way that athletic departments "legally" court and reward collegiate athletes. Hell, the pharma companies sponsor everything. Their interests, implicit, drive the research, fund the studies, etc., etc. Which is not to say that it is always a bad influence by any means--just that it's always there. But, yes, keyboards are too heavy... Originally posted by cg1155: Incidentaly, they do teach us doctors that when you are looking at a BMI you have to take into account whether or not the individual is very athletic, since persons who have an abnormal amount of muscle will have an abnormally high BMI. Also, pharmeceutical companies do not determine what the BMI cutoffs for overweight/obese are, these are determined by studies like the Framingham Massacheusets study that correlates BMI with illness. The most accurate way to determine what your % body fat is is to do a water diaplacement test. 2/3 of americans are overweight and 1/3 of americans are obese and treating the illnesses that go along with these diseases costs more than treating any other single health problem. So it would be great for all of us if we could keep more people from being overweight because we would all pay less in insurance premiums and taxes. Casey Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthplanet Posted December 25, 2001 Share Posted December 25, 2001 Living on the second floor I sympathize with anyone else who has to deal with stairs. It even makes you think twice about the big grocery shopping run. Here's an idea. What if there was an 88 key weighted keyboard where only the minimum needed to make it work was in the case and everything else was in a box sitting on the floor. Of course your pedal could be attached to box. There are forms of plastic lighter and stronger than metal. Would you be willing to pay more for a lighter board along these lines? Michael Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted December 25, 2001 Share Posted December 25, 2001 Originally posted by tenthplanet: Living on the second floor I sympathize with anyone else who has to deal with stairs. It even makes you think twice about the big grocery shopping run. Here's an idea. What if there was an 88 key weighted keyboard where only the minimum needed to make it work was in the case and everything else was in a box sitting on the floor. Of course your pedal could be attached to box. There are forms of plastic lighter and stronger than metal. Would you be willing to pay more for a lighter board along these lines? Michael Um, I'm afraid the heaviest part of a weighted keyboard are the keys, mechanisms, and the frame which hold them. The circuits, display and controllers are the lightest part, so I'm not sure about the convenience of putting them in a separate box. The way to pursue, IMO, is the search for lighter (but strong) materials for the shell, and maybe the keys and lever themselves. A guy from Fatar once told me that lighter keyboards could be already made, but they would cost twice the price. The problem is that those materials are needed only by small niches of the industry, like aero industries or car racing, so they're still very expensive to produce. Speaking of taking gear up the stairs... Did I ever tell you of that concert I did with the "Diacronic Ensemble" where I brought my whole studio (it filled 2 cars) and I found the elevator not working when I came back home? I live at the fifth floor... Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted December 25, 2001 Share Posted December 25, 2001 Originally posted by jimbyjoe: i find more of a problem than weight is the size of my case! i drive a hatch and the back seats fold down, but it's annoying getting the case in. it's got an xp-50 in it but is was designed to hold an ensoniq ts-10. Foo, having a hatchback that was designed for the wrong keyboard is a real bummer. I don't think you should put rollers on it - its not going to corner very well. Seriously though, I have an Acura Integra hatch (275000 miles and counting!) and a case with wheels and my QS8 just rolls in and out from the hatch with no trouble. The item that is a bear is the SRM450. Have to lift in some way to clear the hatch and that thing has no rollers. Actually lifting the 88 in an out is a strength move, though. The QS8 is an 88 but its as long as a 77 because the mod and pitch wheels are above the keybed. A full length 88 would not fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted December 26, 2001 Share Posted December 26, 2001 Wouldn't it be interesting if there were a correlation between the weight of a keyboard and how PHAT it sounds? A CS80 would definitely sound fatter than a DX-7, but were does that leave the Minimoog? A good rig is like a good woman; it gets a little heavier every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted December 26, 2001 Share Posted December 26, 2001 My studio's in the basement. Every time I move the equipment, I have to haul it up/down those stairs.... I have learned how to move the Hammond console up & down by myself! Granted it's an A100 and not a B3 or C3 - I doubt I could ever do that with either of those. After moving the A100, the 75lb Rhodes MK80 is lightweight by comparison. BTW - I'm not that strong - the entire trick is technique. And there's no way I could do it if the stairs were curved. Originally posted by tenthplanet: Living on the second floor I sympathize with anyone else who has to deal with stairs. It even makes you think twice about the big grocery shopping run. Michael I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted December 26, 2001 Share Posted December 26, 2001 I have a number of amps -- fenders, a roland keyboard amp and a baretta. The Baretta is the bomb because the sound is good, it doesn't weigh a ton, and it's small. These things would be much more popular if Tony Baretta was a better salesman. He seems to not have a clue how to "play the game." But he makes great amps. More people should know about these things. Baretta amps = great w/o the weight Made for wimpy keyboard players like you and me. -Peace, Love, and BrittanyLips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudeep Posted December 29, 2001 Share Posted December 29, 2001 i never really thought weight would ever be an issue till i started lugging around my K pc2x and roland kc 500!!! used to dread gigs and rehearsal purely cos i knew i had to lug those things up and down 2 flights of steps!!! its definitely a consideration now...plus i have also started going to the gym!!! hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexternyc Posted December 31, 2001 Share Posted December 31, 2001 heads up! visited the music store yesterday and came across the new roland controller-the A-37 (i think!) i own both an A-90 and an A-70, but portability/weight are becoming more and more important these days. check out the specs: -76 keys -VERY usable unweighted action. comes close to appeasing the age-old problem for keyboardists....how do you play piano and organ/synth from just one keyboard? while i use 2 boards for touring or big shows, this is quite doable for around-town gigs or session work. -approximately 20lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!! (my guesstimate) -$395 picture this: show up to the gig with a 20lb keyboard, stand and a powerbook. of course they didn't make iusb bus-powered........... now why the hell can't they make this keyboard with built in meat&potato sounds (jv-1010 style) and have it accept an srx expansion card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harp Heaven Posted December 31, 2001 Share Posted December 31, 2001 My rig is fairly light. I have a Trinity, with a too large case, very unwieldy, but my bassist drives me to band practices, so I don`t care much. I also have a JV-80, which weighs considerably less, but the guy that sold it to me, gave me a FLIGHT CASE. I hate it, it can`t be carried with one arm, thereby eliminating one-trip-wonders, and making my life a tiny bit more difficult. The rest of the stuff(FC-50, FC-2, two sustain pedals, Phonic MM1002 mixer)goes in my backpack. If I only could spare the money and buy a bag for the JV, my rig would go in one trip from the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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