soapbox Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 This? http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2001/A-Station-small.jpg http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM01/Content/Kurzweil/PR/PC2R.jpg http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/Content/Access/PR/Virus-Rack-XL-small.jpg ...or this? http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/MusikMesse98/Novation/Supernova.jpg (Pretend it's a Supernova II, not just a Supernova...I couldn't find a Supernova II picture!) They are about the same cost, and they take up about the same rackspace. Which would you prefer? Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Smedberg Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I would choose the Supernova. Wait a minute...I have allready done that. (BTW, the Supernova is three spaces high, the rest is only one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthplanet Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Definitly the first option, it will give you a wonderful sonic pallette and if one breaks you will still have something else to play. Michael Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucktunes Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by tenthplanet: Definitly the first option, it will give you a wonderful sonic pallette and if one breaks you will still have something else to play. Michael I agree. For the same money and space, I'll almost always go for variety and versatility. Plus, you get way more combined polyphony. BTW Smedis, I believe he's referring to the combined space of the three small modules being equal to the Supernova. Peace all, Steve ><> Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Smedberg Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by SWBuck1074@aol.com: BTW Smedis, I believe he's referring to the combined space of the three small modules being equal to the Supernova. Steve Yeah, I understood that right after I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Smedberg Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 To say that three "one-level" takes about the same space as one "three-level" made me confused. For me that's the exact space. It could be a language-thing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheether Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 soapbox...what kurzweil is that anyway? ~nel * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Smedberg Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by nelz: soapbox...what kurzweil is that anyway? ~nel Not Soapbox but it's a PC2R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by Robert Smedberg: To say that three "one-level" takes about the same space as one "three-level" made me confused. For me that's the exact space. It could be a language-thing?? It's just my way of allowing for a variety of factors. Three single-space units are almost certainly exactly the same space as a three-space module in rack height. Of course, occasionally, units require venting space above and wind up taking up more space than one bargained for. I doubt that's the case with any of these units, but I don't know for sure... On the other hand, in the back of the rack, three modules would almost certainly use more cable space than one; and in my experience, single-space units are more likely to use "wall-wart" power supplies, using more power strip space. Finally, three single-space units often take more space in a mixer than a single three-space unit would, using six channels instead of two; but of course that's not an absolute either. Just thinking out loud... Geoff Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Not really the same cost. SN-II = $1900 street; A ($550), V ($900), K ($1000) = ~$2450 street. I think the A and the Kurz are strong additions. Don't know much about the Virus. I have a Virus TDM plugin which is supposed to be the same as the hardware version. I guess I don't see the need for multiple VAs, unless you're heavily into that sound. Busch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted December 21, 2001 Author Share Posted December 21, 2001 I'm sorry. Let's make that a ($2,399.97 at Sweetwater) Supernova II Pro Rack then: http://www.sweetwater.com/images/products/Novation/SNova2XR.jpg "If you were looking for one box that could put incredible features immediately at your disposal -- features like analog modeling, real-time sonic manipulation, multi-effects galore (as in 56 at one time!), a 42 band vocoder, FM and ring mod algorithms -- you would look right here and no further! Hey, this is a Nova, so it sounds great, and with 2 balanced inputs you can mix that sonic sweetness with any input source. This version of the Supernova rack offers 48 voice polyphony." Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted December 21, 2001 Author Share Posted December 21, 2001 BTW, while I've started this discussion about four specific units, I'm also interested in discussing the idea of choosing between three stripped down products and one super product. What are the advantages of the no compromise approach that a unit like the Supernova II Pro offers vs. the advantages that a variety of paired-down (but still high sound quality) keyboard modules offer? Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 A-Station question. It is an 8-voice synth....if you use two or three oscillators per voice does it reduce the polyphony or is it always 8-voice ? Anyone played one yet, how does it sound ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod S Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 knobs/sliders and buttons for me on a rack synth are worthless. They are too clumsy to use frequently. I rather get something that only takes 1U and program a midi controller (like my pc1600x), which sits on top of my master controller. Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II MBP-LOGIC American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted December 21, 2001 Author Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by SteveRB: A-Station question. It is an 8-voice synth....if you use two or three oscillators per voice does it reduce the polyphony or is it always 8-voice ? Anyone played one yet, how does it sound ? I spent about an hour with an A-Station a couple of months ago. It is not always eight voices. Maybe a third of the factory patches are monophonic. However, it sounds great. So does the Supernova II, BTW. Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by SteveRB: A-Station question. It is an 8-voice synth....if you use two or three oscillators per voice does it reduce the polyphony or is it always 8-voice ? I am not aware of any analog or analog modelling synth where (in poly mode) using the designated amount of oscillators per voice reduces polyphony. If there are supposed to be three oscillators per voice, you should be able to get 8 voices w/ three per voice. The idea is that there are supposed to be 24 oscillators available to you in an 8 voice 3 osc. per voice configuration, not 8. The exception, of course, would be some unison modes, which assign the maximum amount of oscillators and voices to the amount of notes played. Example - the JP8, which has 8 voices, two oscillators per voice (16 VCOs on board - excluding LFOs, of course). In unison mode, if you play one note using a patch that has Osc1 and Osc2 enabled, all 16 of the oscillators stack up on that note (8 x Osc1, and 8 x Osc2.). If you play 2 notes, 8 go to one (4 x Osc1 and 4 x Osc2), and 8 to the other (4 x Osc1 and 4 x Osc 2). Andromeda also has this function, as do a few other synths. Mono mode does not (usually) exist because of lack of polyphony - it is mainly used because certain sounds (usually basses and leads) trigger more desirably in mono. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Oh yeah... Geoff - I'd go for the three separate units in a heartbeat. More polyphony, more variety (the Virus rules!). Programming will be more kludgy, but what the heck - there's always computer editors... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 mmm Geoff... Even while I do agree with Dave regarding the VIRUS RULES thing (it really does) ... and the three machines you selected are top of their classes... I'd take the SUPERNOVA II all the time. I love its sound. Of course, it depends on your usage, but for you, as a producer, it's gonna be easier to get all those things working together in a same unit, instead of tweaking three machines at the same time. I have seen producers creating entire tunes just with the SuperNova II. Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus at Fender Musical Instruments Company Instagram: guslozada Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología www.guslozada.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 The A/K-Stations have a unison mode. I don't believe the other Novation synths have this feature. My SN didn't, but Novation is very good about releasing updates which add functionality, so maybe. In unison mode on the A/K, you can set it to have between 2 to 8 voices assigned. In polyphonic mode it will reduce polyphony. In monophonic mode it obviously doesn't reduce polyphony, just fattens up the sound. Note, as DB posted, on many synths unison is tied to mono, but not on the A/K. You also have control over how much detune and drift you want in unison mode. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucktunes Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by soapbox: What are the advantages of the no compromise approach that a unit like the Supernova II Pro offers vs. the advantages that a variety of paired-down (but still high sound quality) keyboard modules offer? I suppose the most important factor would be how deep programming you need. If you just want to get to the sounds that are most characteristic of a Virus, Nova, or Kurzweil, you'll be plenty happy with the modules you mentioned. If you want to dig deep into the synth engine to get to the finer details and less used features, you'd probably have to move up to the top of the line keyboards/modules. OTOH, some synth makers have a fairly obvious difference in sound quality between the low end and high end synths, so you have to trust your ears. As long as there's no sonic trade-off, I'd rather go for the compact modules, though. Peace all, Steve ><> Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: I am not aware of any analog or analog modelling synth where (in poly mode) using the designated amount of oscillators per voice reduces polyphony. dB I may be wrong, but on the Virus, enabling the third oscillator reduces poyphony. They advertise it as being 24-note poly, then a note says, "using the 3rd oscillator reduces polyphony till a max of 6 voices" (I'm writing from memory). So I thing it's not a "linear" loss, but a different distribution of processing power, maybe also depending on the complexity of the patch. Any Virus owner can explain how it works exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_dup1 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Easy choice for me too. I'd go with the Virus as a great edgy synth (which I too believe rules), the A Station (gets you much of the SN sound) and the PC2 module which provides really pristine acoustic sounds that the Virus and A Station cannot give you. The three give you much more to experiment and play with than just the SN, but consider yourself very lucky indeed to be able to consider them. What a great holiday present to yourself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by marino: I may be wrong, but on the Virus, enabling the third oscillator reduces polyphony. They advertise it as being 24-note poly, then a note says, "using the 3rd oscillator reduces polyphony till a max of 6 voices" (I'm writing from memory). So I thing it's not a "linear" loss, but a different distribution of processing power, maybe also depending on the complexity of the patch. Interesting. As I said, I am unaware of anything like that....somehow, it doesn't surprise me, though... Hey, what can you expect from a guy who doesn't own any virtual analog synths? I would like a Virus at some point, though...nasty little toy... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Soapbox - The choice depends on whether you can "dig into" those little units without driving yourself crazy. Don't downplay the importance of a comfortable and happening user interface. If it's too much of a hassle to play the thing, you WON'T play it. I have yet to hear a negative comment about the SuperNova series, but I've heard that the Virus is a bitch to program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlingame Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I am looking forward to settling the matter on which of these synths to make some ever lovin` sound on. There was the mention of the compact v being left on its lonesome, but I think multi function controls have promise with more familiarity. The Kurz - if the synth variety was exclusively available, a job-saver with great sounds. I liked the displays of the keys (most?) on account of maybe making a users life more simple. The Nova was the first I noticed so was partial. I would have been more partial if the demo ROM had more variety. Nothing to get upset about. To prove it I shall make my purchase tommorrow. I wish. A provocative keyboard, the nord too and surely many more, makes decisions more of an issue. One keyboard will last me. I do not think another purchase would pull me out of the ensuing duldrums if those controls did not get finessed into some great tones, events, whatever. Just Rambling. Nathan [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: burlingame ] [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: burlingame ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Smedberg Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: Soapbox - The choice depends on whether you can "dig into" those little units without driving yourself crazy. Don't downplay the importance of a comfortable and happening user interface. If it's too much of a hassle to play the thing, you WON'T play it. I have yet to hear a negative comment about the SuperNova series, but I've heard that the Virus is a bitch to program. The UI is very important. The Supernova is very easy to program and every important function have one dedicated button or pot. And you have some space between them for your fingers!! What I've heard and seen in tests of A-station is that you must have some microswitches in the right position before you can adjust the specific parameter, and there are almost no space for fingers. As Dan said. If it's a bitch to program you'll eventually stop doing that. Another thing... The Supernova is extremly good looking!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Are you talking about these choices being the only modules in your rack, or in addition to something? I would take variety first and choose the three. But, if you already have a decent set up it is time to get that nice piece of gear that you want just because you would enjoy having it. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by Rabid: Are you talking about these choices being the only modules in your rack, or in addition to something? I would take variety first and choose the three. But, if you already have a decent set up it is time to get that nice piece of gear that you want just because you would enjoy having it. Good point, Rab. In that light, I might be inclined to agree...depending, of course, on what it is that Geoff does already have... Hey - here's another thought...Alesis is supposed to be shipping Andys in January... "Do you feel lucky??? Well?? Do ya, punk???" dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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