Left-hand bass solutions?

[Cap]

If every job had a bass player, selecting a keyboard would be a no-brainer. Does anyone have answers to the following:

 

1. Do any keyboards have the "pedalboard" bass sounds produced by a B-3? It seems to me that all of the rotary sounds are a moot point without the bass capability.

 

2. Does the Roland FP-3 include any bass sounds other than acoustic?

 

3. Are there any small keyboards (a couple of octaves) "dedicated" to just bass sounds?

 

I currently have a PC2, which does have quite a selection of acoustics and electrics, but apparently not the B-3 bass. Also, because of its many variables, lay-out, etc., it can be a bit unstable during those frantic one-nighters and wedding receptions when it's just you, a drummer, and a horn player.

 

Cap

[Cowfingers]

well theres always the rhodes piano bass as used by Ray Manzarek (if you can find one anywhere). its got about 2 octaves and is dedicated to bass. sounds good and distinctive too

-starfucker

[Slowly]

Well, Roland has the VK-7, and my favorite is the Hammond XK2, both of these are dedicated B3 simulators, both can accept bass pedal board input. Korg has the CX3, and it has midi in also, but I don`t know anthing about the Korg. Casey

[b3wiz]

With all the great bass patches out there, why settle for a pedal bass sound?

I play left hand bass and use a very nice acoustic bass and a fretless electric most of the time, but pick and choose according to the type of song.

I play a VK7 thru a Leslie and using a synth for bass gives me a nice separation because the bass goes direct.

 

On some tunes I will double the piano over the acoustic bass patch which actually works quite well and fills up holes when one handed piano doesn't quite cut it.

 

The touch screen on my triton is nice for this as it allows me to adjust separate volume levels on the fly...something that is necessary as changing crowd numbers and room noise affect the mix.

 

I never wanted to play left hand bass, but got forced into it for some of our gigs and now I wish the bass player would take a hike. I love it. It has enabled me to develop the independence that I always felt was lacking in my playing.

 

It's nice to get back in here and see what's going on. Been so busy I haven't had time to check out the forum for months.

[Bubbajazz]

If it's the separate sound that's the issue, you could track down an Alesis Nanobass, and split your keyboard.

[Cap]

I used to dread and avoid jobs without a bass player, but necessity has forced me to figure out how to construct walking bass lines as well as solo on top of them. It's helped me hear both time and harmony a lot better, and I don't have to put up with the temperaments and egos of so many prima donna bass players.

 

But I'm still perplexed about what synth organ players are using to get that pedal-board bass sound. I went to the Korg.com site and listened to about 10 of the downloads of guys playing the CX-3, all apparently in "real" time on a single 61-note keyboard. Where's that bass sound coming from? Is it "created" with the drawbars, or is it a separate sound of its own based on the B3 equivalent? And can I get that same sound on my PC2 (assuming I can't find one of those Fender 2-octave bass keyboards)?

 

Cap

[Slowly]

Originally posted by Cap:

I used to dread and avoid jobs without a bass player, but necessity has forced me to figure out how to construct walking bass lines as well as solo on top of them. It's helped me hear both time and harmony a lot better, and I don't have to put up with the temperaments and egos of so many prima donna bass players.

 

But I'm still perplexed about what synth organ players are using to get that pedal-board bass sound. I went to the Korg.com site and listened to about 10 of the downloads of guys playing the CX-3, all apparently in "real" time on a single 61-note keyboard. Where's that bass sound coming from? Is it "created" with the drawbars, or is it a separate sound of its own based on the B3 equivalent? And can I get that same sound on my PC2 (assuming I can't find one of those Fender 2-octave bass keyboards)?

 

Cap

 

I been having trouble with computers all day, this time it posted my message before I typed it. Anyway, my XK2 has organ bass built in. I can split the keyboard and get pedal bass under the left hand. But even when its not split, I can get pretty good bass out of the lower notes. Casey

 

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: kcbass ]

[Cap]

"Anyway, my XK2 has organ bass built in."

 

 

That's the most sensible thing I've heard yet. I'm really surprised that other manufacturers don't go the same route. Either the XK2 makers purchased the patent or stood up to the wrath of the bass players union.

 

Cap

[Slowly]

Originally posted by Cap:

"Anyway, my XK2 has organ bass built in."

 

 

That's the most sensible thing I've heard yet. I'm really surprised that other manufacturers don't go the same route. Either the XK2 makers purchased the patent or stood up to the wrath of the bass players union.

 

Cap

The XK2 is suppossed to try and emulate a B3, so bass was included. What kind of keyboard is your PC2? I would be surprized if it don`t have some kind of organ bass on it. My ex-Yamaha PSR-530 had killer organ bass. Yes, I said PSR-530. I could shake stuff off the wall with the bass that thing had going thru an amp. The bass on it to me was better than the bass on my Hammond. Sounded more smoother. You could probably pick up a PSR used for less than $200.00. Thats what I sold mine for. Casey

[b3wiz]

The bass sound on a real Hammond is merely a couple of lower drawbars that are dedicated to the pedals. The same sound is attainable with the 2 sets of 9 keyboard drawbars. In fact, most bass kicking B3 players play left hand bass on the lower keyboard and if they play the pedals at all they are just plucking out an alternating rhythemic pattern to what they are playing with their left hand. Kind of like a lot of guys pound on a random handful of keys with their left hand in stead of actually comping chords. I'm not in cro magnon or neanderthalism so I don't go there, but, admittedly, it is a sleight of hand trick that works, looks cool and can sound OK.

 

A disclaimer: Not ALL B3 players fake the kick bass, but most of them do, including some very well known dudes. Personally, I don't even play a real B3 on the road anymore let alone kick a bass. While I respect those who are good at it, my left hand does fine and, in spite of years of personal resistance to lefthandbassism, I am really enjoying gigging this way now. But, like I said, I can dial up a great acoustic bass or a nice mellow fretless or a punchy, ballsy electric that slaps when you hit it hard... they all, in my opinion, sound way better than a pedal bass, have much more definition, and can be separated from the organ mix.

 

But, if you just have to have that old time pedal bass thing goin' on then that is the "rest of the story" about how most of the bass kickers do it and how they get the sound.

 

All of the digital Hammond Wannabees can split the keyboard and the drawbars settings can be made independently. As for trying to emulate that sound on a synth, I guess you just have to start with a similar sounding bass patch and get in the engine and keep tweaking until you get it as close as you can. Problem is, you still won't have the drawbars to tweak on the fly. Hope that made a little sense. Good Luck.

[Cap]

That's useful information, since my PC2 does allow for drawbar adjustment, or simulation. I'm certainly not interested in getting my left foot in the act, and several B3 players have confessed to me they use their left hand most of the time, bringing in the foot for ballads (or show purposes). I can see where other bass sounds cut rhough more, but there's a unique, pulsating quality about the Hammond pedal board bass that I would like to replicate. So far all of the sounds I've tried have had to many "overtones" to permit use for this purpose.