Jeff Klopmeyer Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Okay...so I want to make this sound. With me so far? The sound needs to be a stacatto tone with a filter sweep and amplitude change over it. If I had to describe it in text, the sound would look like this: wa-a-a-A-A-A-EH-EH-EH-EH-A-A-A-OW-OW-ow-ow-ow-ow-oh-oh-oh With me so far? So, I think that I need to start with a tone of some kind. Then I need to use an LFO to create the stacatto effect. Then I need to adjust an EQ and Amp curve over the duration. Right? Am I off target? I don't have a synth in front of me, so I'm throwing this out there now so when I work on it tonight and over the weekend, I have the benefit of your sage advice. TIA. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fortner Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Hi Jeff, If by stacatto you mean a stutter or machine-gun effect (sorry if I read you wrong there), here's how I'd do it. Use your synth of choice to get the filter sweep you want -- the way you express it in text makes me think of oscillator sync, as well. If you have a synth that'll let you assign different envelopes to the cutoff and reso, so much the better. Two possibilities now. One, set the LFO to a square wave and assign it to the VCA so that it gates the sound on and off during the filter sweep. Two, record the filter sweep into your DAW software of choice, then use the audio editor to chop up the track and insert little chunks of silence. Is this sound for live playing or is it meant to end up in a recording? Stephen Fortner Principal, Fortner Media Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The T Dot Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Rather then chopping it up, you could do this all on one synth If you've got an arpeggiator with a gate control. You could siimply set it to repeat the note you play, lower the gate to get a short note length and sweep the filter while you hold down the key. Or try a vocoder to get a more human-like "wa-a-a-A-A-A-EH-EH-EH-EH-A-A-A-OW-OW-ow-ow-ow-ow-oh-oh-oh" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthplanet Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Sort of along the vocoder lines, my thought would be to sample someone making the sound then experiment with the filter and envelope to get it the way you want. Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: wa-a-a-A-A-A-EH-EH-EH-EH-A-A-A-OW-OW-ow-ow-ow-ow-oh-oh-oh Actually, I think you can get that sound if you tickle Dave Casey behind his right ear..... try that and lemme know.... Valky Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: Okay... wa-a-a-A-A-A-EH-EH-EH-EH-A-A-A-OW-OW-ow-ow-ow-ow-oh-oh-oh With me so far? So, I think that I... Right? Am I off target? TIA. - Jeff Who's "Tia"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: wa-a-a-A-A-A-EH-EH-EH-EH-A-A-A-OW-OW-ow-ow-ow-ow-oh-oh-oh That reminds me...how's your cat??? or more importantly...how's your gear??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 My thought. Heavy tone passed through an overdrive effect. Route through a formant filter. Then through the amp which is controlled by an LFO. Use square wave, rate tied to midi tempo. Route velocity through the LFO rather than the wave volume. This may be a starting point. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: Okay...so I want to make this sound. With me so far? The sound needs to be a stacatto tone with a filter sweep and amplitude change over it. If I had to describe it in text, the sound would look like this: wa-a-a-A-A-A-EH-EH-EH-EH-A-A-A-OW-OW-ow-ow-ow-ow-oh-oh-oh With me so far? So, I think that I need to start with a tone of some kind. Then I need to use an LFO to create the stacatto effect. Then I need to adjust an EQ and Amp curve over the duration. Right? Am I off target? I don't have a synth in front of me, so I'm throwing this out there now so when I work on it tonight and over the weekend, I have the benefit of your sage advice. TIA. - Jeff Jeff, I don`t know if you are into "Funk", but reading you post makes me think of this song called "Flashlight" by Parlament. I bet if you listened to their song you might get some inspiration. Also in the Master Class section, look up Bernie Worrel and hear his samples. Hope this helps. Casey "Let It Be!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted November 18, 2001 Author Share Posted November 18, 2001 Thanks for the replies. I've done some work on the sound so far, and i'm sorta getting there...but not entirely. If it helps to understand, I'd like to do this just on my QS8...no arpeggiator. The "stacatto" part of the sound should resemble 16th notes at about 90bpm. This is actually for a sound for my Keyboard Corner cover tune! So, since I'm using the QS8, I'm trying out the Tracking Generator for the EQ and amp sweep. Then the whole thing needs to go through a distortion. It's working well so far but it can be a pain in the ass to program. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Um, if I understand it correctly, it sounds really simple to me. -Square wave LFO controlling amplitude, for the rhythmic "staccato" effect; -Another, much slower, sine or tringle wave LFO - OR an envelope with slow attack and decay - controlling cutoff *and* resonance for the sweep (instead of a dedicated EQ); -Then, THE SAME slow LFO or envelope as before, assigned to amplitude too, but in smaller doses. (The filter sweep should help creating the amplitude effect, too) I never programmed a QS8, so I can't be more specific, but I guess it can do all of the above - they are fairly basic functions. HTH Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: So, since I'm using the QS8, I'm trying out the Tracking Generator for the EQ and amp sweep. Then the whole thing needs to go through a distortion. It's working well so far but it can be a pain in the ass to program. The filters on the QS8 are really weak, do you have anything else you can use? An analog synth will do the sweep much better. Otherwise, I agree with Marino above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Well the staccato would be the square wave LFO as others have pointed out. As to the vowels.... You can use a single filter and get close, or two filters and get closer. A purist formant synthessis boffin would recommend three resonant band pass filters (or you could use three tones with one filter each) The frequencies for the formant sounds are in the table below. (I got this off an old article in keyboard magazine and it has been very helpful.) Vowel F1 F2 F3 ah 750 1100 2450 eh 550 1850 2500 ee 275 2300 3025 aw 575 850 2425 ooh 300 875 2250 where f1, f2, and f3 are the frequency (Hz) of the resonant peak. I have a rompler (Roland XP) and use the three tones approach (since it is pretty much a one-filter-per-tone instrument). Make sure you use a bright waveform, so there is plenty of information to work with. It sounds like you will need the several stages of a multi stage envelope to tune the filters for each segment of the sound. (It helps if your synth works in hz, or if some helpful guy has written filter tuning tables for it.) This part gets pretty ugly, since the actual frequency is a function of the filter cutoff settting, the envelope depth setting and the setting of the particular envelope segment. I realize that what I have outlined sounds like a patch from the nord modular, but I get some decent vocalizations out of a roland rompler, using shortcuts and compromises. You may be able to get some further help from outboard effect devices like flangers for one or more of the peaks. Hope this helps, Jerry [ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: Tusker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Jeff, I didn't get that maybe you need a definite "changing vowels" sound. A multistage envelope is definitely not enough for this. Here's what I would do: If you need the change in timbre to be rather abrupt, first find filter and resonance settings for every one of the timbre stages and write them down; Then record or write MIDI Control Change messages into your sequencer, at the points where you want the sound to change. If, on the other hand, you need a smooth, continuous timbre sweep, but still retaining the "changing vowels" effect, you'll have to do it by hand, sending CC messages from some MIDI knob. But at this point, maybe using a vocoder is the fastest option (assuming you have one!). I can't think of a synth with 3 EQs controllable in real time... with a Kurzweil you can use 3 filters, but they're in series, and you would need them in parallel. I guess the Nord Modular can do it, and Reaktor for sure. But if you only got the QS, you have to do it with one filter (or use the vocoder solution). Be sure to start with some kind of rich waveform, maybe a sampled "aah" layered with some analog-type waveform. Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted November 19, 2001 Author Share Posted November 19, 2001 Thanks all...I got it. Easy in concept...a little wacky to program on the QS. So I turned the lights off and began randomly adjusting edit parameters until it sounded cool. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: Easy in concept...a little wacky to program on the QS. - Jeff that's an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Another reason that every keyboard should have a randomize button in the editing software. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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