Antonio7 Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Hello all. Nice forum I have an arranger keyboard at the Moment (technics KN6500), and would like to add a synth to it, to create some groove/Dance type sounds etc, and also some Orchestral Textures as well. As regards the Question. I want to know haw many Effects can be used at the same time on the Roland Fantom (this is the keyboard/Synth I am interested in - because of the extra keys, as I play piano). On the XV3080, (and all JV/XV's it seems), they give you the specs: Chorus,Reverb, MFX.(thats "THREE" EFX in Total if I'm not mistaken OK. Now suppose I want to put a nice sequence together with "Delay" on Rhodes sound (MFX) "Chorus" as well, with a small dose of "Reverb"....what would I do if I wanted strings on track Two (for example), with a Phaser/Flanger going on at the same time?? - it seems here that I would be stuck I always seem to look at the effects sections on equipment (before sounds even) (bit of an effects freak that I am!), because Its no use playing a wonderfull patch...only to lose it when you go in Sequence mode. My KN6500 has lots of DSP's (10 actually - 6 being Inserts), and I just got used to having lots of EFX. I've been to the Roland site Roland Fantom And I downloaded the "Acrobat" brochure for the Fantom. It mentions something about:"MFX 90 Types, 3 Different Multi EFX (50 Types) can be used simultaneously in MULTITIMBRE/PERFORMENCE MODE I think this excludes Chorus & Reverb. If this is right, then the Fantom May have more than I first thought (3 Inserts, with Master Chorus Reverb???) - thats how I read into it anyway. Realisticly, what I want, is to run a Rotary Organ, with Rock Guitar, and Delay etc, and would need more than 3 EFX. I'm Due to get a Board tomorrow, or Monday, so can someone confirm if this is right? (I've considered the Karma as well BTW - which is about the Same Price here In UK (£1,299 Karma, £1385 Fantom). Antonio [ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: Antonio7 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthplanet Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 The Fantom is more of a workstation than the Karma. The Karma has the same sound engine as the Triton. The Triton is a workstation also but costs more. Listen to both the Roland and the Korg. Each has a different sound. The Roland is the newest. The Korg models have been out a while. I personally like the Roland sound but for what you want to do you may have an easier time of it with the Korgs. And if you desire more of a synth and don't care about the workstation idea; then I would look at the Karma. I know this sounds confusing. I know because i have been going through all this research myself. Trust your ears. Michael Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthplanet Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Hello again...I think I found something useful on the Korgs. This applies to the Karma and the Triton. As per Korg,they state: "Stereo digital multi-effect system, 2 master effects(mono in/stereo out),5 insert effects (stereo in/out),1 master EQ (3-band stereo), all usable simultaneously," So quite a lot can be happening in the effects dept. at one time. Is this getting close to what you need? Michael Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio7 Posted November 10, 2001 Author Share Posted November 10, 2001 Oops! - double Post! [ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: Antonio7 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio7 Posted November 10, 2001 Author Share Posted November 10, 2001 Thanks Tenthplanet, however, I would like to know how many SIMULTANEOUS Effects you can have on the Fantom. It says: Chorus, Reverb, & M-FX. Does that mean its only got three? - or does this M-FX have more than that. The spec sheet (check the Link, and look at the Fantom Brochure)says you can use THREE effects in Multi/Performance mode. Weel, does this include the Chorus & reverb into the Equation?. Or, to put it bluntly, how many DSP's can you have running at the same time on the Roland Fantom?. Thanks. AT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsy Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Tell me if I'm wrong. It seems that most synths (including the Fantom) have more than 3 simutaneous effects available. I can only tell from my experience with my own Roland XP-80: What lies behind the 3 you mentioned-Reverb, Chorus and MFX is that the MFX actually contains a variation of combinations of effects: delay, wah-wah, emulator, chorus, reverb, etc. I do not know the physical fact behind it but on my XP, you can create very sophisticated effect pathway (reverd+chorus+delay+returned reverb+ring, etc) for a song. I have to warn you that on the Roland you can only have one universal effects pathway/combination for the whole song. Don't know about Karma. I've played the Karma in a store, it seems to me like a decent techno/loop machine while I think Roland has wider range of sounds and more expandability. good luck, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Quoting from my Roland XV-5080 manual. "Performance Mode Settings Three different Mulit-effects can be used in a Performance. Select which of these three Multi-effects to use with Part Output MRF Select. With this parameter, the same Multi-effects are applied to all sected Parts. You can adjust the amount of effect to be applied to the Parts by adjusting their Send Levels to each of the effect units. The Send level setting for each Tone can also influence effect intensity. Furthermore, you can take the Multi-effects you have applied to a Patch in a Part and apply them to the entire Performance, or to just part of the Performance." End Quote That last sentance is the one to note. On the next page of the manual. "Part Output MFX Select A-C Selects which of the three Multi-effects is to be used." End quote Thus, it seems you can route different parts in your multi-tembral setup through different effects, then route the entire mix thorugh reverb and course. In this way you can use rotary effect on an organ patch, distortion on a guitar, and delay on a synth, then mix the three back together for reverb and course. Hope this helps. Sorry for any typo's. Was typing fast and furious. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio7 Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Thanks Jlsy & rabid. I see a little more light now. However, the Karma, it seems, has more simultaneous effects available (5 inserts & 2 master). Are the two master effects assignable to all of the inserts? (like Reverb available on ALL parts….but adjustable?) Anyways, I haven't rushed out and brought a Board yet, but it really is a close thing between the Karma & the Phantom (Motif too). The triton is just too expensive for me at the moment, or I would possibly plunge for that. However, I have a Yamaha A4000 Sampler, so I wouldn't need this sampling Feature, and that is were the Karma fits in - and the Fantom. So then Rabid, would it be possible (on the Fantom) to have,say, Strings with Phaser on Track 1, Organ with Rotary on Track 2, vibes with Delay on track 3, and the apply Chorus AND Reverb to these sounds? BTW, Is the KARMA EXACTLY the same as the Triton in the” sound” area? - Minus the Sampler or other external options that are available?, because the Triton in UK is £1599 for 61 key version (that is lowest I can find), whereas the Karma is £1299. Quite a difference in Price there I would say. £1299 will be $1891 U.S Dollars, (Karma), whereas £1599 will be $2,328 (triton 61 key). FYI Antonio [ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: Antonio7 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthplanet Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 When in doubt try it. For what you are preparing to spend the dealer owes you that. Think of it like buying a car test drive. If the dealer is not cooperative there are others! For whats it worth find the most convuluted, nasty patch you can find in the factory presets of a Triton. Find the same one on a Karma they will sound identical(I tried it.) Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Danger! Danger! Just thought of something. Some effects patches in many synths take more power than others. While it may be possible to have 3 on the Roland or 5 on the Korg it may be the case that selecting an effect such as rotary may reduce the number of effects you can use at the same time. Check this by actually trying it in the store. I traded my XP-80 for a Fantom Saturday. I also have a Korg Karma. The two are quite different. The Karma programming is designed to create complex patterns and sounds. The Fantom pattern programs are designed for quick song composition. I will say the Fantom is great in some areas and quirky in others. Once I spend a day or so with it I will post a complete review on the board and compare it to both the Korg Karma and the Roland XV-5080 rack module. One other difference between the Karma and Triton. The triton comes with four banks of presets. A, B, C and D. Karma only has three. A and B are the same as the Triton. C and D on the Triton are combined into a single bank on the Karma. A "Best of" as Korg calls it. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio7 Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Hiyas, Well, I still don't "seem" to be that sure yet, as to how many effects you can have running on the Fantom. Just this ONE issue is holding me back from buying it, because I'm sure the sounds themselves will be OK. Good infact. So Rabid, if a Rotary speaker takes up more power, does this mean that THREE inserts won't be available???. You know... there are times when you would give an eye tooth for an Acrobat Manual! - this is the time . All I want to do (for example) is to play Rotary Organ (1 effect), Strings with Phaser (2nd effect), Bass With Delay (3rd effect)....And ADD Reverb and Chorus to these 3 Effects.. Is this possible on the Fantom? (if so BTW I WILL BUY IT!). The Karma, as I have said, is plentyfull in the effects part, but the 76 keys on the Fantom would swing it if I could have three proper insert effects, otherwise, A triton engine along with 8 Effects has to be the option...(5 inserts, 2 master, 1 EQ) Can't try the keyboard out BTW, no dealers nearby, so I ask you for advice instead!. A7 [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Antonio7 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Sorry this took so long but I just have not had time to sit with the keyboard and manual. I just sat with the Fantom and the manual and went through the pages on setting up effects for multi-tumbrel mode. I was able to use three separate effects and assign each channel to the desired combination of effects, plus course and reverb. I only got to spend a few minutes and it is still a bit odd, but it seems you can have each of the three assignable effects set up in parallel so that you can run some channels through only the desired effects, or you can chain the output of some multi effects to the next effect so that you can have multiple effects on some channels. It gets more complicated when you start adding reverb and course, deciding what should be parallel or what should be series, and routing sources to output. I don't know how anyone would do this on a small screen. I have not tackled it on my 5080. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Empress_Scorpio Posted November 26, 2001 Share Posted November 26, 2001 I'd send you my Fantom just so you can hear and feel for your self the power you will be able to invest in! Get the Fantom for all that it is worth. With a little bit of configuring and sounds management, this "beast" -- Roland calls it; will deliver the goods! I've had the Korg TritonPRO, I swapped it on NOV.01.01 for a brand new Fantom -- my Korg was still in mint condition so I ended up only paying 2-thou. for a better "instrument". As in reply to your effects questions: "...only 50 of the 90 types of multi-effects allow three multi-effects to be used simultaneously..." -- quoted from the users manual. This I truly feel is more than enough, because any more and you are pushing it -- the piece of music will come out way too busy. I mean you are using electronic/digital means to make music -- even in a live instrumental arrangement you have to be very aware and conservative of "effects" or it just sounds too much for people to actually enjoy... Think about it. Also -- I mean, if you are using a computer to sequence your music and master your finished product; heck you have infinite amounts of effects and all to apply. Roland Fantom FA-76 is the way to go. All the others are out for looks and attention, Rolands are about the sound and high engineering quality -- and they care too (I'm getting a t-shirt from them for rambling on and on via email to them about my concerns and comments...) heehehehee. All the best and keep in touch, Vi An my homepage: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/146/vi_an-_-is-_-vi_an.html www.mp3.com/just_vi_an Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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