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A generic Hammond thread


coyote

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OK folks,

 

1. What's your current Hammond rig? If it's a clone or a synth you think produces a good Hammond-ish sound, let us know.

 

2. Which Hammond players have an impact on your playing goals? Not looking for the usual long lists - I'm looking for the two or three who *really* influence where you're at and where you want to be.

 

My answers:

1. Hammond A100 thru MotionSound Pro3T and Marshall Major 200w 4x12 stack.

2. in jazz: Lonnie Smith & Jeff Palmer.

in rock: Keith Emerson & Jon Lord.

Not that I can begin to play like these guys, but they're all clearly original voices and not Jimmy Smith clones. Jimmy Smith is great & required listening but not where I want to go ultimately.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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My current rig is a Hammond XK2 with a Crate KX-160 amp. For me, only certain setting sound like a real Hammond. I hope to add a Pro3T real soon.

I don`t have any real influences right now. Hardly anybody play the kind of music I like. I feel in love with Hammonds is a Gospel music setting, so my Hammond heros aren`t famous. Casey

 "Let It Be!"

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I once carried an old Hammond L100 and later settled on a Crumar single manual running through a Leslie cabinet. Now I cover parts using my Korg Karma with the piano/keys expansion. If I need a second manual is it my Roland XP-80 with the Keyboards of the 60s and 70s expansion. Both are decent for what I do. I like the Korg and Ensoniq both have a nice feature for Leslie simulation. On Korg you just flip the joystick and the rotary effect kicks in. Not need to hold the joystick up. On the Ensoniq MR/ZR 76 you could press the keys and after touch would kick it on. No need to keep pressing to get the effect. The next time you press the keys it kicks it off and the rotary slows down. I sequence using the Korg organ patches, then route the midi channel through Native Instruments B4 to get a better sound on the computer. That is my general method for many sounds. Get the song down on outboard gear, then improve the sound by playing the midi file through software instruments.

 

Rod Argents solo in Hold Your Head Up got peaked my interest in organ. My early licks came from listening to early Santana albums, up through Moonflower. For some reason I have never listened to much organ jazz. Maybe I have not chosen the right artists but organ based jazz does not seem to have the high level of emotion I like in a song.

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This is a slight tangent from the main topic, but I noticed a poster above mentioned the roland keyboards of the 60's & 70's card ... I'm very seriously considering purchasing an xp-30 as a second keyboard, a principal use of which would be organ sounds (I have a Yammy s80 as main axe for piano & electric pianos but want unweighted keys for the organ sounds). If I go with the sp-30, I'd have the option of purchasing the 60's/70's card for my B3 sounds, or throwing an EMU B3 rom in my proteus 2000 and controlling it via midi (for about the same price). I've read excellent reviews of the emu B3 sounds, but not much info on the roland expansion board. Care to elaborate on your impression of the sounds (especially B3 sounds) on that board ... pros, cons... hights, lows? Many thanks if you do.

Chris

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My rig for B3 sounds? Roland VK -7 feeding a Leslie 142 by way of a Trek II UC-1A combo preamp. For shorter, lower-paying gigs I bring it without the Leslie.

 

Biggest rock / R&B influences: Tom Coster, Chester Thompson

Biggest jazz influences: Larry Young, Richard "Groove" Holmes

 

Piece of Hammond gear I'm most eyeing right now: A chopped Keyboard Products B3 with a flight case, multiple Leslie outputs, and an FX loop.

Stephen Fortner

Principal, Fortner Media

Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine

Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine

 

Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse

 

 

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Originally posted by chris c:

This is a slight tangent from the main topic, but I noticed a poster above mentioned the roland keyboards of the 60's & 70's card ... I'm very seriously considering purchasing an xp-30 as a second keyboard, a principal use of which would be organ sounds (I have a Yammy s80 as main axe for piano & electric pianos but want unweighted keys for the organ sounds). If I go with the sp-30, I'd have the option of purchasing the 60's/70's card for my B3 sounds, or throwing an EMU B3 rom in my proteus 2000 and controlling it via midi (for about the same price). I've read excellent reviews of the emu B3 sounds, but not much info on the roland expansion board. Care to elaborate on your impression of the sounds (especially B3 sounds) on that board ... pros, cons... hights, lows? Many thanks if you do.

Chris

 

The Emu has better sound. The Roland has some very nice vintage electric pianos on the card, along with other keyboards. Either one has enough variety to be more than adequate on stage. If you use a Roland keyboard as a controller you need a voltage pedal. Assign it to mimic the modulation control of the joy stick. Otherwise you have to hold the stick up to keep the rotary effect in high speed. This is impossible when you are playing with both hands.

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For me, ain't nothin' like the real thing.

 

I play an A100 through a 145. Sure it's heavy but I can't live without it.

 

As far as influences go I'd say John Medeski is at the top of the list, I love his "unconventional" approach to the instrument.

 

As far as the clones go I had an XB2 but got rid of it, read as couldn't stand the sound, once I got the real thing. I tried other dedicated clones including the VK7, CX3, XK2, V5 and Emu B3, but honestly they just don't sound right even with a real Leslie.

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Originally posted by SteveFortner:

Piece of Hammond gear I'm most eyeing right now: A chopped Keyboard Products B3 with a flight case, multiple Leslie outputs, and an FX loop.

 

Be still my beating heart. Let me tell you my chop story. I was sick of my Hammond XB-2, too shrill, too thin, harmonic beating, etc., etc. The neither XK-2 nor was the VK-7 were available. So I started looking at chopping my B & put in a more road worthy case. If you unbolt the manuals, the preamp, the tone generator, & the drawbar rack, the whole thing should be able to be slid from the existing cabinet into a new cabinet. You wouldn't save much in size but you would save in weight. You would lose the legs & the foot pedal hookup but I would lose close to 200lbs in wood & I-beams. So I talked to my friend who's worked on my B & others & told him my theory. He didn't believe me until I showed him. He agreed & better still was willing to do it. I called another friend who has a road case business to get him to make the new road case to put the guts in. At first he was willing but then he thought about it. He figured he would have to make it himself ( he couldn't trust one of his workers to do it) & he wasn't sure it would hold up. I also wanted a slanted place to put your legs if you were to play sitting down & a few other corners that wouldn't be 90 degrees (his system can only use 90 degree corners. Anyways he chickened out & the XK-2 came out & I took my money & bought it. I still have thoughts about doing it . . .

 

Hammond XK-2/ Tube MP/ Leslie 145, B-3 at home, B4 in my computer, Keith Emerson, Greg Rollie, (My brain wants me to play like Keith, but my fingers play like Greg Rollie). Check out John Novello, the group is called Niacin for big, rock B-3. Features him, Billy Sheehan (Mister Big) & Dennis Chambers (plays with everyone).

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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For the past 3 years I have been using an Oberheim OB-3 squared played through a Motion Sound KBR-3D. Having owned a B-3/147 for 10 years, I find that for the money, this gives the most authentic sound(if there is such a thing). The tube preamp can give you that gnarly sound, and nothing beats a real spinning top horn.(the low end simulation is also great). As for organ artists: Greg Rollie, Tom Coster, Jon Lord, Keith Hensley, and Richard Holmes.

Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK-1 + Ventilator, Korg Triton. 2 JBL Eon 510's.

 

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i just use the b3 patches on my xp-50. not terribly exciting but they'll do until i get my pc2x or (please God) korg cx3.

 

i posted this question on the yard sales thread, but i'm impatient. i scored a hammond f-2000 from my mother-in-law's friend (mother-in-law's are good for something). first of all, i can't find anything on the internet about that model (it's got switches and beats on it) and has a single leslie speaker in it (well it's got the speaker and a rotating foam drum with one opening and a fast/slow button on the organ). so 2ndly, i want to get an electrician to take the leslie plus motor and switch out and mount it in a separate small wooden cabinet. has anyone done that and/or what are your suggestions? btw, does the f-2000 have any amazing value or significance?

cheers.

pray for peace,

k

"Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough."
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Thanks to Rabid for the info on the emu and roland boards above.

 

I'm just getting into this B3 thang (trying to learn how NOT to sound like a pianist playing an organ/organ patch) but I'll add one I haven't seen to the list of influences ... Chuck Leavell. His B3 playing isn't overly flashy, very soulful, very tasteful. I like it and would like to be able to do it!

 

Chris

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Thanks to Rabid for the info on the emu and roland boards above.

 

I'm just getting into this B3 thang (trying to learn how NOT to sound like a pianist playing an organ/organ patch) but I'll add one I haven't seen to the list of influences ... Chuck Leavell. His B3 playing isn't overly flashy, very soulful, very tasteful. I like it and would like to be able to do it!

 

Chris

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Choice depends on priorities, money, and job. That B3 looks much better if you play the same club every night, or if you have a staff of rodies and a truck to move it. It is also a nice choice if you have the money to spend on it, and if you place it as a high enough priority. Organ, piano, analog modeling, lead synth, pads, orchestration, sample manipulation, sound design. The list of keyboard duties goes on and on and on. As in the computer or medical field you can be a generalist or a specialist. I guess my chosen speciality is lead synth with sound design as close second. Because of that I will probably never on a dedicated keyboard for organ that cost over $1000. I do think that less than 5 percent of the audience will notice the difference between the organ sounds of a good expansion ROM or the sound from a dedicated keyboard. I also realize that 5 minutes after I play a solo using a complex patch on my Nord modular routed through my Kaos pad and Pod 6 those same people will not remember the special cross-fades or modulations I worked so hard to develop.

 

While some of us here (including me) talk about the thousands of dollars we spend on our equipment I hope others dont mistake our joy of playing certain instruments with a perceived necessity. Talent, style, and dedication all rank above equipment. That said, one of the greatest rewards a musician can give him/her self is an instrument you have always dreamed of owning. While some of you are saving for that B3 and happily use most anything for synth parts, I will save for a true modular synth and be happy with my fake B3 ROMs.

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For all you Hammong nuts here is John Novello/ Niacin web site

http://www.novellorusch.com/niacin.htm

It has some Real Player snippets of some of their tracks. I have every CD they've done & am looking forward to their next one. They are all worth the purchase & should be required B-3 listening music like Jimmy Smith & Keith Emerson.

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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I email w/ John occasionally, and see them every time they come through town. And yeah I'm influenced by his playing & direction. Great stuff.

 

Originally posted by b_3guy:

For all you Hammong nuts here is John Novello/ Niacin web site

http://www.novellorusch.com/niacin.htm

It has some Real Player snippets of some of their tracks. I have every CD they've done & am looking forward to their next one. They are all worth the purchase & should be required B-3 listening music like Jimmy Smith & Keith Emerson.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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I am using a CX-3 with its internal Leslie sim, I think it's pretty darn good if you ask me. Influences, hmmm...Emerson is a good one, I love playing Tarkus using the preset "Turkish" (get it?) on the CX3, I like Jimmy Smith, but for some reason, I can't really get behind organ based jazz, I always seem to prefer a regular piano or Rhodes working in the background or up front.
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I listened to the Niacin clips...cool music! That led me to a question: Has anybody heard or seen or know of a blues band that is Hammond/keyboard based? As in drums, bass, Hammond (and maybe harp or sax), but no guitar.

 

Anyway, I am still hoping to find the right Hammond rig someday soon.

 

As for influences....Mine are Gregg Allman and Steve Walsh and Taz DiGregorio (Charlie Daniels Band)

 

Seeya,

 

BD

"With the help of God and true friends I've come to realize, I still have two strong legs and even wings to fly" Gregg Allman from "Ain't Wastin Time No More"
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as said by rabid:

"I do think that less than 5 percent of the audience will notice the difference between the organ sounds of a good expansion ROM or the sound from a dedicated keyboard."

 

good point, although i'm sure the typical melancholic musician playing the instrument will always feel better if the sound is good and authentic. you know what it's like if you can't get the sound right.

 

on the same quote, how about for recording? what would you use then???

 

any news on my f-2000?

pray for peace,

k

"Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough."
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I do believe that the audience doesn't know whether you're playing a good Hammond emulator or organ sounds from your synth. But what they do know is when something sounds good, they may not know why but they know. Transversely they also know when something's not right & they turn on their heels & leave. I'm not saying because you don't have a B-3 up there you're driving them out the door. I give the audience more credit than that. I would say every other gig someone comments on my gear, whether it's "What's that box with the spinning horn?" to "Great Hammond playing!". But really in the end I play for myself. The hours are long, the pay is crappy, I'm dragging my ass the first couple days of the week, but listening to my XK-2/Leslie 145 makes me feel great. And every once in a while some magic happens, whether it's Mustang Sally seeming to be extra funky or after just learning Drops of Jupiter the band nails it. To play without my XK-2/Leslie 145 I think I would just quit.

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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That is why I said "one of the greatest rewards a musician can give him/her self is an instrument you have always dreamed of owning." And I totally agree with the above statements that having that instrument on stage with you will improve your playing becasue it will improve your mood. Any musician who puts up with band members, club owners and crowds shouting names of songs we don't know deserves to treat themselves with the best you can buy. I really did not mean to come across as downing people who own or want to own a real Hammond.

 

Dream Instrument - vintage Hammond B3.

 

Happy with - Roland, Emu or Korg expansion boards that specialize in Hammond sounds.

 

Recording - If not a real B3 then I would play the parts using my expantion boards, then convert the midi tracks to use Native Instruments B4.

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Current rig is (new) Korg CX3 over a Yamaha S80. Fed into some tube preamps, Mackie 1402 mixer and Mackie SRM450s, nobody misses the real Leslie and neither does my back.

 

Years ago I owned an L100 and 147. Couldn't go anywhere by myself. Do I miss the Leslie? Yes. Do I miss calling up friends to help me load/unload, renting or borrowing a truck? Nope.

 

I was playing piano and feeling very uncool in 1967. Wanted to play the guitar or trumpet (Herb Alpert & Tijuana Brass were huge) so I could carry my instrument. A song called Whiter Shade of Pale changed my mind about how cool a piano, and my newly found love, organ could sound.

 

So I'd have to say that Matthew Fisher was THE factor in getting me playing the organ. After that it was *early* Keith Emerson in the Nice (much more raw, gutsy and far less pretentious than ELP), Steve Winwood, Garth Hudson (The Band), Rick Wakeman.

 

In the jazz realm, mostly piano like Evans, Jarret, Corea, Hancock, etc. Never had any jazz organ to listen to when I was younger, am now enjoying Jimmy Smith's wild licks.

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Originally posted by sevush:

Years ago I owned an L100 and 147. Couldn't go anywhere by myself. Do I miss the Leslie? Yes. Do I miss calling up friends to help me load/unload, renting or borrowing a truck? Nope.

 

I was playing piano and feeling very uncool in 1967. Wanted to play the guitar or trumpet (Herb Alpert & Tijuana Brass were huge) so I could carry my instrument. A song called Whiter Shade of Pale changed my mind about how cool a piano, and my newly found love, organ could sound.

 

Just how I feel! If I had someone to move it or was doing serious recording then I would still have my B-3 and leslie. BTW, I played trumpet in a TJB band and it was listening to and picking out licks by Uriah Heep that got me into rock and the sound of Hammond organs.

Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK-1 + Ventilator, Korg Triton. 2 JBL Eon 510's.

 

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I am using a technics WSA1R module which I bought at a run out sale (don't pay over $500 US). I use Hammond as added color rather than stock in trade and for this it works great. It has a decent Leslie simulator and decent overdrive which to my ears makes it better than anything else I have come across in a simulator.

 

The biggest limitation is the lack of real drawbars.

 

BYW, if you get one of these treat it gently - they're not the most ruggedly constructed module.

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I always seem to prefer a regular piano or Rhodes working in the background or up front.[/QB]

Exactly! That why until poly-synths hit big time the rig to have was a B-3 and next to it a Rhodes suitcase electric piano. Throw in a clavinet and your choice of monophonic synth abd you could play anything (though most the times you would play the Rhodes!)

Michael :cool:

Q:What do you call a truck with nothing in the bed,nothing on the hitch, and room for more than three people in the cab? A:"A car"....
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