Philip OKeefe Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I was thinking about this while taking a shower this morning (don't ask...) and I think we've obviously changed our way of doing things. Used to be an engineer had to become good at punching. And you had to "learn" the different responses of different machines - an ADAT definitely responds different to a punch than a Otari MX80 does. And back then if you blew a punch on an analog machine, you had to redo a bigger segment of the track(s). Not to brag, but because of this, I definitely got "good" at doing punches - I could oftentimes do punches in the middle of multiple syllable words. ADATs and other digital tape decks allowed you to make clones, which increased the saftey margin. But it was still a more "hands on" technique the majority of the time. Nowdays, you can still punch things in, but I think with the ability to comp from multiple takes, that's becoming a rarely used tool / skill for most people - thus the poll. Thanks for participating! :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded yeti Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 What's a punch? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Yes, it's true. Working on a DAW with limitless tracks means I just start additional tracks and comp the results, rather than conserving tracks by punching in. Not much need for accurate punches these days... I remember punching being a nerve-racking, but exhilarating experience, when performed accurately. The punch is one of the true tests of an engineer's musical, physical and technical abilities. A good engineer is able to punch right before, right after, or right on the beat. A good engineer can seamlessly punch in a singer in between words in the middle of a line. A great engineer, like Phil, can punch in a singer between syllables within a word! Wow. I must say, though, that although I am quite good at punching, I don't miss the necessity. I would much rather comp from multiple takes. Cool topic, Phil. :thu: https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I remember how proud I was when I thought I had finally mastered my punching technique. That being said I don't miss it at all. It is hard enough to coax a real performance out of someone, especially myself, and focus on executing a flawless punch. Playllist's to me, are one of the absolute hippest things about Pro Tools. To be able to get a few real performances, especially vox and solo's, and then comp them into a great final track beats a punch any day. At least for me. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerebralborealis Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 As an old analog dog I don't lament the loss of the tactile punch portion of the craft. The idea was always to make the recording technology as invisible as possible to the musicians. DAW's, when used wisely are very close to an invisible recording format. With proper planning there are no reel changes, no early or late punch problems, no hard editing sacrifices, no destructive erasing, etc. I for one don't miss punching at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravibe Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I fondly remember the many exhuberant "Got it!!"'s exclaimed in the studio... Unfortunately, I also remember the "Fuck, we have to redo that section again. Sorry guys." I came to love the programmable punch points on ADATs and now my DAW... Andrew Mazzocchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp3nc3r Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 My nickname, once upon a time anyway, was "Punch-Master General". I developed fearless punching technique very early in my career - mostly out of nessecity. I'm still quite deft at it, but DAW punches and multi-take comp are preferable because of the higher degree of efficiency Cheers! Spencer "I prefer to beat my opponents the old-fashioned way....BRUTALLY!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blas Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I remember the session I punched out a quick half-cough the lead vocalist did between two words and what a wizard the band thought I was! Also, the session I punched and we had to retrack a lead guitar part that the guy never hit it again like the take I screwed...I'll gladly live with the new toys!!!!!!!!!! :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-_dup1 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Having a punch pedal wired up to PTLE is one of the reasons why I prefer PTLE over any of the other DAWs... I don't want to set stupid edit points 99% of the time -- I just want to roll "tape" and start recording when the right spot appears. And having PTLE automatically crossfade into the punch is way cool... FWIW, when I was using Cubase (which I'm selling! See my signature) I couldn't stand the audio editing features so much that, at least for the three songs currently on my web site, I played each track the whole way through without punching or editing/comping. Now that I'm using PTLE, I still try to play parts right the whole way through, but I'm more concerned now with getting the part down as quickly as possible. If that involves punching, so be it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Set up loop points, record new takes on seperate tracks, pick the best of the bunch, insert, done. I'd cry if I had to go back to recording the old-fashioned way... when you had to 'earn' it. Matt In two days, it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Another great thread Phil! :thu: I'm a tape slut and I must have done a zillion of punches. The Otari MX80 is the best "punch in" machine I know. There's a small part in your brains with kind of a flash memory:) where skills like swimming and skating is "stored". The puch skill is there also and it is a memory that's only get erased when you die :cool: The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 [img]http://www.jetli.com/jetli/media/pic_bfb/06.jpg[/img] (Oriental accent)...What "lost" "Art of the Punch"? :D Oh! You mean punch-in, rather than "punch out"... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Autopunch is very useful, but my main way of using it is still a footswitch. Both my machines punch in pretty damn transparent. It is definitely part of the artform. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I record myself more than anyone else so punching has always been an important part of my musical life. Lost some good takes but also had some wonderful happy accidents, especially with bass lines. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Gould Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I'm really a "Make 'em do it right, all the way through" kind of guy, but I usually end up doing 1 or 2 punches to correct minor things on an otherwise 'perfect' take. 3 mistakes and we do a whole new take. But I never comp, and I do any necessary punches right away. I still work like I did on analog, and nobody ever complains. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I still do mostly just punches. If I comp, I tend to comp between whole takes. And I try to keep punches to a minimum, try to just chase the perfect take. It's a lot less nerve racking to do punches when you've got an Undo button though! :) And punching on a DAW is lightning fast, I've even punched drum tracks and you can't hear the punch. Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronix Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Well ya' know things just change. I remember cutting magnetic recording tape with a razor blade. Some of our ancestors used to get there news from a guy with a bell. Some of their ancestors used to chip flint to make a knife. Any one know where I can get a good buggy whip? Robert Morin Now really not at Alesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMaverick Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Punching a track is alive and well with the AudioMaverick. I use a DAW, but the process is pretty much the same. "It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duhduh Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 I guess I use PT in an old school way. I punch in just like on tape. "Meat is the only thing you need beside beer! Big hunks of meat and BEER!!...Lots of freakin' BEER." "Hey, I'm not Jesus Christ, I can't turn water into wine. The best I can do is turn beer into urine." Zakk Wylde http://www.hepcnet.net/bbssmilies/super.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_109.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted November 10, 2002 Author Share Posted November 10, 2002 Thanks for everyone's responses... anyone else? Coaster? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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