Billy or Elton, who is the best???

[Fletch]

Ok, on the three pianist column these two got votes from lots of people so I thought it would be nice to compare them and see what everyone else thought.

 

It seems to me that Billy Joels piano playing is much more technical and creative than Elton's. Most (not all) of Eltons material is based off of pretty simple chord progressions that aren't that challenging to play. I know some of his olders stuff is very creative and different especially for its time. But Billy Joel has some amazingly cool and unique pieces. For example, the intro to "summer of highland falls" just is amazing. The rythm and the melody just combine to create such a soulful sound. How about the rythm on "River of Dreams"!

 

I pick Billy Joel any day of the week. I watched them on their combined live tour in little rock Arkansas. I was on the 3rd row for about 5 1/2 hours and thought that Billy out played Elton all night long.

 

I'm sure there will be other opinions, so lets here them.

 

Peace,

 

Fletch

[steadyb]

According to meccajay, that would be Michael Jordan.

[Bucktunes]

That's a good one. I guess the two are similar in the sense that they're both singer/pianist/songwriters, but musically they're as different as apples and potatoes. But what the hell, I'll throw my hat in here.

 

Better singer - definitely Billy

Better pianist - I'd give this one to Billy too, although I think Elton has a more recognizable style. Billy seems to avoid being typecast into a particular style.

Better songwriter - Yikes! Apples and potatoes time. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Elton is more prolific, but Billy writes his own lyrics. Elton takes lyrics and sets them to music. Billy writes music, then writes lyrics that fit the music. Elton's had more hits, but Billy has more standards. Bernie's (Elton's lyricist) lyrics can be symbollic and abstract, Billy's are very literal. Stylistically, you could never mistake an Elton song for a Billy song, or vice versa. I dunno, this is too close for me to call. As far as lifestyle, I DEFINITELY relate more to Billy than Elton! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

For overall musicianship and creativity, I'll have to cast my vote for Billy. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Peace all,

Steve

[Mr Blab Blab Bla]

Yeah overall I'd agree with whats been said, however...

 

I don't think Billy Joel has done a better LP than Eltons "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road". Wasn't that a cracking LP?

 

But yes I think theres a more sophisticated feel to Billys music. In the UK they played one of his 70s live concerts on the TV recently, it was great seeing him with his big hair playing "Just the Way You Are", but I loved this tune he played that had a lovely moog melody probably better.. although I've no idea what its called.

 

peace

Neil

[Bucktunes]

You might be thinking of "The Entertainer", one of the best song lyrics he's written, IMHO. More than 25 years later, still as relevant as when he wrote it.

 

Peace all,

Steve

[steadyb]

I saw them in concert together earlier this year, and they're both pretty incredible. Hit songs for days...

[dansouth]

Wow, difficult choice! They're pretty well matched. (Unlike Bryant and Jordan, steadyb!)

 

I don't buy the "simple chord progressions" argument against Elton John. Mozart's chord progressions were pretty basic, too. Billy Taylor or Oscar Peterson is going to wipe up the floor of the "harmony library" with either of these guys, so let's not go there. Billy and Elton write pop, and most pop is based on simple harmonic structures. That's not a liability, as far as I'm concerned.

 

That said, I think that Elton has a more consistent style, while Billy has more breadth and variety (playing AND songwriting). But I would argue that Elton's groove is deeper. Technically, they're both virtuosi, so I'll push. Same with their voices - both are big, warm, outrageous, and instantly recognizeable.

 

Elton has had more success in film and theater, and I would guess that he is the more successful of the two in terms of sheer dollars. Despite that, I've read that he has serious debt problems. Billy probably still has the first dollar he ever made. He seems to be the less pretentious of the two.

 

I like Elton's soulfulness. I like Billy's attitude. Both have a ton of energy. Both have worked with exceptional sidemen. Both have written songs that have become pop culture anthems. Note that Billy writes his own lyrics. If I could take only one set of CD's to a desert island, it would be Billy's, because of the variety in his work, but that does not mean that I think he's "better" than Elton. Call it a draw.

 

This message has been edited by dansouth@yahoo.com on 10-03-2001 at 02:01 AM

[steadyb]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

Wow, difficult choice! They're pretty well matched. (Unlike Bryant and Jorday, steadyb!)

 

Yeah, watching Bryant in 2001 is a lot like seeing Jimi Hendrix in '68 while

seeing Jordan in 2001 (or "Jorday" if you prefer) is kind of like seeing Bing Crosby in '68. Just a little too far past his prime, but still doing it for the money. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

This message has been edited by steadyb on 10-03-2001 at 01:58 AM

[dansouth]

Originally posted by steadyb:

Yeah, watching Bryant in 2001 is a lot like seeing Jimi Hendrix in '68 while

seeing Jordan in 2001 (or "Jorday" if you prefer) is kind of like seeing Bing Crosby in '68. Just a little too far past his prime, but still doing it for the money. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

Thanks for slamming on my typo, Laker Punk! I hadn't finished my proofreading. That doesn't change the fact that Kobe is going to be sucking Air Jordan in a month or two. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Philip OKeefe]

Both are good players and good writers. Personally, I liked both of their earlier efforts (Elton pre- 1978, Billy pre - 1985) better than most of their later stuff, but overall, I'd probably give the nod to Elton. Not so much for the piano playing (which is pretty evenly matched), or even for the songs (I'd have to give a slight nod to Elton here, but Elton DID have Bernie helping him write - didn't Billy do most of it all on his own?) but simply because Elton's (IMO - flame away) a better singer. The guy's got incredible soul...

 

And I absolutely agree with the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road comment made above. IMO, it's one of the 25 best LP's of all time.

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA

http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

pokeefe777@msn.com

[IanD]

Has anybody heard Elton's new album (songs from the west coast)

It has a lot of good tracks on it, back to basics for him.

"The Ballad of the boy in the red shoes" is a great track.

Billy Preston is on some of the tracks on a B3

 

Ian

[Gulliver]

Honestly speaking I am not a big fan of these two gentlemen... But if I had to choose - then I would prefer to listen to Billy's stuff. Much more original and inventive (especially when compared to Elton's one), IMO.

 

This message has been edited by Gulliver on 10-03-2001 at 04:44 AM

[Bucktunes]

Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:

Elton DID have Bernie helping him write - didn't Billy do most of it all on his own?

 

With the exception of a few covers he did recently, Billy has written all of his lyrics AND music.

 

Elton and Bernie are definitely a Lennon-McCartney type writing team. Elton released an album or two back in the early `80's that he wrote without Bernie, but it was pretty lackluster. The two of them together have written some brilliant stuff, especially Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

 

Since Billy and Elton have toured together, I wonder if they've considered writing and recording together. How cool would THAT be! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Peace all,

Steve

[Pim]

I am not en expert on both, but I think that Elton has more the "what you hear is what you get" style and Billy Joel sometimes has a dimension underneath which is brilliant. However, I do not want say Billy is better...

 

------------------

-- Pim --

 

www.dancewave.nl

[soapbox]

Anyone who ever heard Elton John play live on his "11/17/70" album would never slam his piano playing!

 

I don't know about 31 years later, but that guy could jam!

 

Billy Joel's got a lot of talent as well. I guess I would say that I like Elton's best better than Billy's and dislike Elton's worst more than Billy's as well.

[Blues Disciple]

My vote goes to Billy Joel. Although both brought the piano to the front of the stage literally and musically, I think Billy did more of at as a solo instrument within the context of his songs. Elton as I remember made the piano more of an integral, main accompaniament (sp?) in his songs as opposed to the solo voice. Billy did right his songs as well. As for records, I would put "The Stranger" up against "Yellow Brick Road" anyday. It was full of classic, unbelievable songs. I also prefer Billy's style in his songs....some jazz, some pop and all classic (though both of their more stuff is far from the quality of their earlier days).

 

Finally, being originally from North Jersey (which in many ways is a big suberb of New York) I also personally identify with Billy much much more. Hearing him play "New York State of Mind" on the recent WTC telethon was outstanding.

 

My vote goes for Billy Joel.

 

BD

 

PS.... I do admit thought that "Funeral for a Friend" was THE song that turned me on to synthesizers and keyboards beyond organ and piano.

[Magpel]

Elton's got that pure outside jumper and a quick first step. The observation that he can't take a tough foul may not be entirely off the mark. Billy plays a tougher, school yard game, but over the years and he has added a lot of refinement to his arsenal. If I had to put the ball in someone's hands for a jumper at the buzzer of a championship game, it would be Elton, no doubt. But If I were looking for a player to build a team around, it would be Billy.

 

In terms of music, Elton's kind of an idiot savant, I think. I hear he takes about 20 minutes to write a song, and they're always so effortlessly tuneful, always in that EJ pocket. You can hear Billy working a little harder, restlessly scaveging through different pop traditions. I agree with Dan that Elton has a deeper groove on piano. But I think Billy pushes himself a little harder. Neither one of them make my top 20, or even 50, favorite songwriters, btw, so I'm not sure what my opinion is worth. But I have ample respect for both. Longevity is worth something (the older I get the more I value it).

[Doctor Frankensteinway]

These types of comparisons are so much akin to

which is better, Captain Kirk or Captain Piccard?

 

and personal bias aside, both Joel and John are fine song writers, performers and players.

 

Agreed ~ 11/17/70 may indeed set Elton apart from Billy Joel.

 

But then again, both Joel and John pale in comparison to Dr.John.

 

To my ears, Dr.John is simply the finest living piano player today. Billy Joel and Elton John would have to tie for second. After that I would go with Oscar Levant and George Gershwin.

 

But like I said, I am biased.

[Mr Blab Blab Bla]

hehe.. agreed. Its interesting to get peoples viewpoints though.

 

I'm just pleased people still dig that style of music after years of computer drivin drivel...

 

I dig Ben Folds too..

 

Originally posted by SWBuck1074@aol.com:

You might be thinking of "The Entertainer", one of the best song lyrics he's written, IMHO. More than 25 years later, still as relevant as when he wrote it.

 

Peace all,

Steve

 

Yep thanks Steve thats the one... beautiful almost progressive rock type of melody. Why does nobody play like that these days?

[Rob4CU]

I have to go with Reginald.

 

Of course, 11/17/70 and Goodbye YBR were absolutely marvelous and showcased EJ's prowess in and out of the studio but I always held a special place in my heart for Madman ATW and Tumbleweed Conn. Elton affected me deeper because his music seemed to come from a more desirable or surreal place (like a dream about OZ or something). Someone above said Billy worked harder and I agree - Billy Joel is a master craftsman and I certainly respect his ability and love many if not most of his songs...but Elton's voice (piano voice as well) stirred something in me that no one else has.

 

At least until Rock of the Westies came out... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

[michael saulnier]

ummmm...

 

Which one married the supermodel?

 

Isn't that the RIGHT way to tell who's the best? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

guitplayer

[Mr Blab Blab Bla]

.

 

This message has been edited by neil loughran on 10-03-2001 at 06:07 PM

[meccajay]

<>

 

Michael Jordan

[meccajay]

Ok seriously, did anyone catch Elton on Letterman the other night, he was talking about his "American Blues" influences. . . anyone catch the names of the cats he was talking about??

[Botch.]

I've seen both play live, but separate, not together. Elton put on a good show but it was average length and the only time he actually spoke to the crowd was while a roadie was removing a safety pin or something from one of his costumes (guess it was pricking his elbow while he played). Still, I'm glad I got to see him open with "Funeral for a Friend", I get goosebumps just thinking about that.

I actually wasn't going to see Billy Joel, but a half hour before the concert my Iowa State U. roomie from Brooklyn hands me a ticket and says, "Here! You're going!" Glad he did, I've been a fan ever since, Billy didn't have a warm up act and played for 3 1/2 hours, incredible musicianship and personality. Both guys have killer bands, too, it must be pointed out.

[steinwaym]

I think that Billy is definitely the better player. But I think that Elton has made a much greater impact upon the way that pop piano is played. Billy's playing, especially live, is at such a superb level, that it is incredible, and few can mimic.

I think taht in a way Elton is much like what Count Basie was to piano playing especially in a big band, there have been many players that played "better," but very few that are as often imitated.

[steinwaym]

I think that Billy is definitely the better player. But I think that Elton has made a much greater impact upon the way that pop piano is played. Billy's playing, especially live, is at such a superb level, that it is incredible, and few can mimic.

I think taht in a way Elton is much like what Count Basie was to piano playing especially in a big band, there have been many players that played "better," but very few that are as often imitated.

[Pat Azzarello]

Billy. I saw him in 98(?) and with Elton earlier this year. He just seems to have more fun. Billy plays, and Elton performs. It's close as they both have great tunes, memorable keyboard parts, etc.

 

In the end it comes down to the "who's having more fun?" factor for me.

[Guest]

Billy's from "the Island". Whud else iz dare tuh say?

He brings back great memories from my childhood to me.

He wrote some of the best pop tunes of all time. Great lyrics, warm, romantic piano. Yeah...Billy's duh man.

His sax player screwed my ex wife so he was tasteful too!

[joegerardi]

Originally posted by MadScientist:

His sax player screwed my ex wife so he was tasteful too!

 

The old sax player that's not with him anymore?

 

I know his sister. When I was the IS manager at the Seneca Nation of Indians, I met her through my (now ex-) mother-in-law. they are both Shinnecock (sp?) Indians, and my ex is a Seneca.

 

Oh, back on topic: I always thought Billy the better player. Listen to "Prelude/Angry Young Man" with the repeating notes, "All for Leyna" with those lightning fast repeating chords, or the short lead in "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant" and you hear some great chops. The best for me is "Root Beer Rag."

 

From a purely technical standpoint, neither is that good a player. They both have terrible technique, and tend to bang out the notes, rather than letting the piano sing, but from a purely emotional feel, Billy definitely has the edge in the rock idiom.

 

 

 

This message has been edited by joegerardi on 10-05-2001 at 12:03 AM