jpyyzyahoo.com Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 Hello everyone. I have some questions about VST instruments and plug ins. I know very little about soft-synths and the like and am curious to see if they can be used in the way that I would like to use them. I have my eye set on cubase as of right now to host all these VST goodies. Here is the deal. I don't need to record into my computer (I'm using RADAR as my tracking medium) Is it possible to just input midi into the computer and make a VST Instrument recognize what midi channel its coming on and then output its sound through my audio card? The reason I want to use Cubase is this. lets say i create a cool sounding synth of some sort with a program (Reaktor, Absynth, etc). I might want to run the *output* of the synth into some VST plugins (Arboretum, GRM Tools, etc) and then output this sound through my audio card. Is it possible to do this? i would really like to do this in real time instead of laying down a sequence in Cubase and just assigning an Instrument to follow the midi. so my next question is about latency. Assuming working in real time is possible, how much do I need to concern myself with latency? I know I am rambling a bit, but it comes down to this... I want to use my computer to allow me to play soft-synths (such as reaktor) in real time, run their outputs through various plug-ing via cubase (if I want to) and then output this sound out of my audiocard to where ever else I might like it to go (outboard gear etc, ending up in RADAR). Will this work? thanks for any help John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 John, Absolutely, but latency will be a big part of the equation... I love VST instruments, and for the most part, I find myself playing them in real time (and usually with VST effects plug-ins - particularly reverb). Once you have your computer set-up and optimized (a sometimes daunting task), setting up real-time instruments in Cubase is a snap. You just set the output of the active Midi track to the VSTi of your choice, open the effects rack, open the group mixer (now called mixer #2), and set the effects sends to your liking. When I say that you "set the output of the active Midi track", I'm not implying that you need to first record the notes. With Midi thru activated in Cubase preferences, you are playing through the computer in real time. I use a Delta 66, but I wouldn't recommend it to others (occassional yet annoying pops & crackles with the ASIO driver). If you are using Radar, you are probably on a higher budget than I, and you can probably afford the granddaddy of all VST soundcards, the RME Hammerfall. You can run digital outs directly to Radar, or get a DA converter to run analog signals. With a Hammerfall, latencies of 1.5 to 3 ms are not uncommon. With my Delta, I can reach 6 ms, but I keep it at 13 ms to avoid most pops & clicks. You might also consider the MOTU 2408 (also 3 ms latency). There are many good cards out there, and it would probably be easier to tell you what NOT to buy, rather than the other way around. VST instruments are a blast. I run Pro52, Model-E, HALion, LM4, VSampler, and some freebies, and it's a great time. All the best, Wiggum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyyzyahoo.com Posted September 27, 2001 Author Share Posted September 27, 2001 thank you thank you thank you thank you http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif this clears things up, especially the "midi thru" issue i have another question (or rather, a continuation of the orginal question). when you say: "just set the output of the active Midi track to the VSTi of your choice, open the effects rack, open the group mixer (now called mixer #2), and set the effects sends to your liking" ok this is probably going to be a very dumb question, but where is mixer #1? is this where the VSTi's reside in their *plug in* state? thanks again john (who is slowly getting this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondsong Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 Actually, Mixer #1 and mixer #2 are just 2 mixers that are available for mixing audio and can be configured independantly any way you like as multitrack channels or VSTi channels or group/sub channels or combinations of these things. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyyzyahoo.com Posted September 27, 2001 Author Share Posted September 27, 2001 thanks Frank, that makes sense john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted September 28, 2001 Share Posted September 28, 2001 John, Mixer #1 is dedicated to externally recorded signals (and VSTi tracks that are rendered to audio tracks), and Mixer #2 is for Group Channels and VSTi channels. Mixer #2 is where your outputs arrive when you activate a VST instrument. Before you buy, check them out. I have been very pleased with VSTi's, but they have their time and place. They are a great icing on the cake, but I don't know if they have reached the point of replacing hardware. HALion and B4 may change that, but I find that the virtual analogs work best when they are layered heavily and played in unison. To contradict my own words, I do program all of my drums exclusively with VST instruments (LM4). If you are going to buy, check out the following: 1) NI B4 (perhaps the best virtual organ on the market, short of Korg's CX3) 2) NI Pro52 (best VSTi analog - much better than Model-E) 3) Steinberg HALion (best virtual sampler, albeit a few minor bugs) 4) Maz VSampler (a good virtual sampler - much less expensive than HALion) 5) Steinberg LM4 (lousy GM samples, but incredible 24 bit Wizoo kits. Very difficult to edit kits. Kits can be read by many other drum samplers (Battery, DR-008, etc)) All the best, Wiggum This message has been edited by Wiggum on 09-27-2001 at 11:17 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardstown Audio Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 I love Cubase VST and Native Instruments B4. Works and sounds great. I have an order in for HALion 1.1 and very much looking forward to using HALion with Giga samples. It is the strong consensus by many that HALion 1.1 translates and loads uncompressed Giga format instruments extremely well. Kip Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyyzyahoo.com Posted September 30, 2001 Author Share Posted September 30, 2001 ah thanks for clearing that up Wiggum. I am really interested in checking out B4, even more still since they are putting out new tone banks for vox, farfisa and harmonium organs. that sounds killer. i have looked into pro-52. was also really looking into Reaktor and Absynth. Reaktor, mainly because you can do so much with it. anyone here messed with absynth yet. stuff i have heard online sounds promising. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inadequate.com Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by Bardstown Audio: I have an order in for HALion 1.1 and very much looking forward to using HALion with Giga samples. It is the strong consensus by many that HALion 1.1 translates and loads uncompressed Giga format instruments extremely well. I heard that there's no support for Giga libraries in Halion & no one currently working on a translator. While you can change Giga files to wav files the key-switching between layers function will not survive the translation. I heard this before v1.1 arrived but you might want to check out the situation before spending the money if this feature is important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by inadequate.com: I heard this before v1.1 arrived but you might want to check out the situation before spending the money if this feature is important to you. While I agree with that statement, the preliminary evidence is pretty good: From Steinberg's HALion 1.1 description under Features: "AKAI, E-MU, REX, SF2, LM-4 - Script, SDII and GIGA import." BTW, Bardstown Audio's specialty is Giga libraries, so I presume that Kip has at least a lot of anecdotal evidence that this HALion 1.1 Giga import feature works. This message has been edited by soapbox on 09-30-2001 at 07:07 AM Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inadequate.com Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Hi Soapbox Thanx for the tip. If Halion cn do the keyswitch trick it will be well worth the money I've already spent. Sorry if my post come off a bit short. It wasn't meant to. I didn't know who I was talking to and was hoping someone would bring me up to date if I was wrong. Which you did. Thanks again. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 inadequate.com, it's cool. I could tell that you were just looking out for jpyyz@yahoo.com (John). That's a good attitude to bring to this site! It looks like we've got a lot of newbies posting in this thread. As a Keyboard Corner vet, I'd like to extend a warm welcome to you all! Please feel free to sign our guestbook . Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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