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PC Recording help


joegerardi

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I've been giving serious thought to contribution to the new CD. (Actually, Dave shamed me into it on our phone call!) I've been playing a lot, and my chops are coming back faster than I thought. (But slower than I hoped!)

 

Anyway, here's where I need help. I don't have any recording euqipment. I DO have a fairly powerful PC and a large HD. (Athon T-Bird 950 and 30 Gig O'space.) I don't want to spend on recording software because I'll seldom use it. Do any of you studio wiz's know how (or IF) I can record to the PC as an MP3, which I'll then burn to audio CD, again through the PC? I figure I'll use the sequencer to record note data, then when I garner this info, I'll use it to play all the stuff back and record.

 

Thanks.

 

..Joe

 

PS: If it helps at all, I also have a PII 450 laptop if more than one PC is required.

 

PPS: I do have a Mackie 1602 mixer if that's needed.

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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Here's what I suggest:

 

The m-audio audiophile 24/96 is a pretty good entry level card. Those guys have been keeping up with updating drivers so I think it's a solid bet. Midi i/o, analog in and out, spdif in and out. $160 I think. Probably the cheapest 'pro-sounding' card. There's other too, but I keep hearing good things about it, and the price is pretty reasonable.

 

http://www.bway.net/~rongon/home_rec/soundcard.html

 

I came across this link and it does a pretty good job of summarizing what's out there.

 

Of course, if you already have a soundblaster or compatible in your computer already you can get started with that, and update later.

 

Get an entry level sequencer/audio package. Cubasis VST or Cakewalk Home studio. They run about $80-90 and you can upgrade to the full versions later. IMHO they are sufficient for a while. It lets you get your feet wet.

 

The way most of these packages work is after you're done with the project, you export it as a .wav or as an .mp3. Use the mp3 to post in a web site and email to friends, use the .wav to burn the CD with (stereo .wav is about 10 meg per minute, in other words huge, mp3 compresses to about 1/10 the size)

 

I recently bought a burner for my PC for around $70, SONY. Works flawlessly. Installation about 15 minutes.

 

With this you will be able to record and ship stuff to Dave.

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

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American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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Shoot! I should have given more information...

 

I Have an Ensoniq 1373 sound card, Cubasis as a sequencer, and I want to record all the sounds from my hardware synths into the MP3. I have a Backpack CD recorder, and have burned a bunch of audio CDs in the past.

 

Does that give a little more help?

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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Hi Joe !

 

If you have a hardware sequencer and your computer has a sort of an input for recording a stereo signal (let's assume you're not willing to do a multitrack recording, just your hardare sequencer and mixing some live instruments / vocals) ... you will still require an audio recorder.

 

If you don't want to spend in a recorder, give a try to ACID XPress; it is FREE... download it right here . It would work as a stereo recorder, even for multritracking. Then you can save your mix to a master stereo WAV file, then enconde it to MP3 as ROD CA mentions.

 

Or get a light version (free) of COOL EDIT PRO or SOUNDFORGE and record straight into them.

 

Tell us your choice...

 

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Gus Lozada

 

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FYI Joe - as far as the compilation projects that we do, we don't rely on mp3 as much as full bandwidth uncompressed format. We don't use mp3 format when we burn the final discs; and, while I can convert any mp3 files that you send me, you'll get better fidelity if you mix to 16 bit 44.1kHz and then just send it to me like that.

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

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Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

FYI Joe - as far as the compilation projects that we do, we don't rely on mp3 as much as full bandwidth uncompressed format. We don't use mp3 format when we burn the final discs; and, while I can convert any mp3 files that you send me, you'll get better fidelity if you mix to 16 bit 44.1kHz and then just send it to me like that.

 

dB

 

Dave:

I remember you telling me that on the phone. It just might be my ignorance showing: I assumed that when you record to PC it's in .MP3 format, and when youo burn the CD, then you convert it to audio.

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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OK, a couple of pointers:

 

Standard 44.1 kHz, 16 bit is .wav. .mp3 is compressed. You always want to keep the .wav, since that's what you want to burn onto the CD, and you can always create the .mp3 from that one, and not the way around (well, you can, but you loose quality)

 

If a software allows you to record in 24 bits, for instance, you still have to convert to 16 bits to burn the CD.

 

I disagree with Gus in that you DONT need a hardware sequencer, unless your really want to do it that way. Cubase should record audio, so i don't think you need anything else. It may not encode files into .mp3, in which case you need another program.

 

There's basically 2 ways to record synths:

(1) Play it live, and record the output of the synth into the line out of the card.

(2) Record the midi, then have your sequencer 'play back' the midi track while it's recording the audio. This is the way I use. If you're careful midi latency is not an issue, and you can always correct a bum note (I'm not a good piano player, I always managed to hit an adjacent key).

 

I think purists laugh at option 2, but I don't see anything wrong.

 

What you have should work. The ensoniq card should have the midi ports. Since you don't have a patchbay, to record you you have to do the following. let's assume that controller does not produce sounds (like a kx)

 

Midi out of controller - Midi in of soundcard

Midi out of souncard - Midi in of 1st module

Midi thru of 1st module - Midi in of 2nd module

Midi in of 2nd module - Midi out of 3rd module

 

And so forth. The problem with this setup is that if your computer is off you can access your modules. I don't think there's a way around it unless you use a patchbay.

 

To record the audio from your synths, either patch them individually into the line in on the soundcard, or run an output of the mixer to the line in, and any channels you're not recording.

 

OK, more later... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

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American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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Dave, Jeff, Rod, Gus, Phil:

 

Thanks to all of you for the insight. I've got some reading to do on the page Jeff gave me, But for now, I'll be down a few hours whilst I upgrade to Windows XP Pro. Back in a while.

 

..Joe

 

 

Well... I WAS going to update. There's too much stuff I have to reinstall (firewall, DSL software, etc.) and I'm just not in the mood to do it tonight. After fighting with cranky routers all day, (the entire State of GA's internet was down until noon) I'll wait for the weekend.

 

Jeff:

I looked over that page you sent me. It's good stuff for PC beginners, but I'm a CNE, I run computer systems all day (Novell, NT, SUN and mainframes) so that didn't really help. However, I'm getting up to speed quickly here. Thanks for the direction.

 

I want to record .WAV in the PC, and, yes, I WILL use a sequencer to record the note data. I used to do that when we were in the studio, so that if (when) I hit a clam, I didn't have to do retakes, just fix the offending note(s) and still keep the immediacy of a great take.

 

So let's see if I have this right: I need PC .WAV recording software (I don't think what I have will work. I have the version of Cubasis - not Cubase - that came with my QSR) I would use Cubasis as my sequencer, so that when I have my piece done, I run the sequencer, which runs the boards (BTW: I have an MX-8 MIDI patchbay if that makes any difference) and then run the output of my mixer back into the soundcard to record it as a .WAV.

 

After that, I'm familiar with burning the .WAV to an audio format.

 

Does this sound like I've got the gist of the basics?

 

PS: I really miss the days when all I had to worry about was my music. I always liked the fact the the studio engineer had to worry about all this shit... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

 

This message has been edited by joegerardi on 09-26-2001 at 08:32 PM

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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Originally posted by Rod CA:

I disagree with Gus in that you DONT need a hardware sequencer, unless your really want to do it that way. Cubase should record audio, so i don't think you need anything else. It may not encode files into .mp3, in which case you need another program.

 

Hey Rod, I don't remember saying so...

I was suggeting him, if he has a hardware sequencer, to sequence on it its MIDI stuff, then sing / play live instruments mixed to it directly to a Stereo file in CoolEdit / SoundForge / Whatever...

 

I even suggested joe to check out a FREE multitrack recorder, just like ACID Xpress is. Of course, getting cake /cubasis is a better option.

 

Nevermind, he does have already Cubasis and an Ensoniq card ... enough for him ! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus

at Fender Musical Instruments Company

 

Instagram: guslozada

Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología

 

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Originally posted by joegerardi:

It's good stuff for PC beginners, but I'm a CNE, I run computer systems all day (Novell, NT, SUN and mainframes) so that didn't really help. However, I'm getting up to speed quickly here. Thanks for the direction.

 

No problem. What we generally run into at TASCAM are folks who may have done some sequencing on their puters but don't realize the intricacy of setting up and using PCs for actual audio. Guys like you who have the background usually get going much faster than most folks, but every once in awhile we'll run into a serious IT pro who will say, "Oh damn...didn't realize the V-cache was so important," or something like that.

 

Since we're getting more and more into the computer audio world with Giga software, our hardware interfaces and so on, it's important that we try and generate as many educational materials as possible. I'd rather a guy get set up right the first time than spawn 50 new calls to tech support each week, only to eventually give up in despair...seen it happen too many times.

 

- Jeff

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Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

No problem. What we generally run into at TASCAM are folks who may have done some sequencing on their puters but don't realize the intricacy of setting up and using PCs for actual audio. Guys like you who have the background usually get going much faster than most folks, but every once in awhile we'll run into a serious IT pro who will say, "Oh damn...didn't realize the V-cache was so important," or something like that.

 

Since we're getting more and more into the computer audio world with Giga software, our hardware interfaces and so on, it's important that we try and generate as many educational materials as possible. I'd rather a guy get set up right the first time than spawn 50 new calls to tech support each week, only to eventually give up in despair...seen it happen too many times.

 

- Jeff

 

Oh, yeah. I agree with you. Had Dave not had an appointment with Monday Night Football, I would have bugged him to death for hours with questions.

 

It's interesting how many different facets of MIDI there actually are. As I stated in another thread, I can hold my own when it come to instrument routings, but when you start to get into all this stuff between the computer, sequencer, software recorder, then I'm a babe in the woods. I'm still trying to catch my breath after watching a .MID load banks into my QS7. That just floored me, and made me realize what I don't know about MIDI.

 

You just keep shooting stuff like that at me. There's no such thing as too much information. (Especially to a computer geek!)

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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OK, I'm bumping this to the top because I have more questions I hope you can answer for me.

 

I decided to do Enya's Shepherd Moons for the cover CD, and I looked at both CoolEdit and Sound Forge, and they're not going to cut it. In laying out the pre-work, I realize I'm gonna have to fly in some parts here on additional tracks, and CoolEdit and Sound Forge don't allow multi-tracking.

 

I heard of a program called Internet Tapedeck that is an 8-track PC-based recorder. Suppposedly, it's freeware, and it looks like it would do the trick, but I cannot find anything other a page about it on the company's website: http://www.recordlab.com/products/Internet_TapeDeck/Internet_Tapedeck.html .

 

So, barring that, is there anything you folks know about anything LIKE that that I can get my hands on? I don't really want to invest in software, because it'll never get any serious use, except for little things like this, and I'm a cheapskate.

 

Thanks.

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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Try n-tracks. It's shareware, I think $30 for the license. Supposed to be unbeatable at this price (more than the chop down versions of cakewalk and the others).

 

Soundforge and cool edit only handle 1 file at a time, so they are useless for multitracking and mixing

 

Sonic Foundry has another program that does this, Vegas Audio, which is supposed to be good.

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

MBP-LOGIC

American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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Rod:

That's exactly the type of thing I was looking for. I found 2 others on my own, Anvil Studio, and Fat Rock Studio. They're all pretty similar.

 

Thanks.

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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Originally posted by Rod CA:

OK, a couple of pointers:

 

Standard 44.1 kHz, 16 bit is .wav. .mp3 is compressed. You always want to keep the .wav, since that's what you want to burn onto the CD, and you can always create the .mp3 from that one, and not the way around (well, you can, but you loose quality)

 

The other reason that computer DAW's don't store audio in compressed format is that it takes CPU power to compress, and then decompress the data when you play it back. This way you can use that extra computing power for plug-ins and softsynths.

 

However, it would be COOL if Cakewalk (or one of the others) allowed you to compress the audio when you save it. I wouldn't do this to my primary backup, but it would help to send the bundled audio/midi files to others I work with over the Internet (save time). They could then send the bundled files with the audio back to me for review/incorporation on the Internet, and burn a CD with the sequence and their uncompressed audio via snail-mail.

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Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

Joe...thought this might be good as a general reference source:

 

http://www.tascam.com/support/faq/pc_optimize/index.cfm

 

- Jeff

 

I'm reading the document at that site and it's quite useful for me. I've done some midi stuff but getting into digital audio for the first time. I wish I read it BEFORE I built the PC. oh well.

 

Since there's some computer savvy folks here, maybe I can sneak in this question: I have Win ME, athlon chip, asus A7V133 board, maxtor ata100 drive. I tried (as the doc suggests) to go into Device manager and, select the maxtor drive, and enable "DMA". However there's no DMA checkbox. What could be wrong? I'm sure I'm selecting the right drive and I'm sure I'm in the right place under settings. It's just not there.

thanks,

pete

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Originally posted by seclusion:

Trust us all here when I say... It will only get worse once you start..

 

Actually, no it won't. I'm not one to get into a lot of multitracking. Doing "Shepherd Moons" is what requires the extra tracks. Enya will sometimes have as many as 150 overdubs in her music, and if I plan to be faithful at all to the music, I require a few extra tracks. That's mainly because a lot of the parts fade in and out, and hence the need for an 8-track audio recorder.

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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Originally posted by joegerardi:

...I decided to do Enya's Shepherd Moons for the cover CD, and I looked at both CoolEdit and Sound Forge, and they're not going to cut it. In laying out the pre-work, I realize I'm gonna have to fly in some parts here on additional tracks, and CoolEdit and Sound Forge don't allow multi-tracking.

...

 

Originally posted by Rod CA:

...Soundforge and cool edit only handle 1 file at a time, so they are useless for multitracking and mixing...

 

Guys, I am afraid you both are wrong regarding Cool Edit. (Are you referring to Cool Edit LE?). Well, Cool Edit Pro allows me to record and mix up to 32 audio tracks with ease. And its editing capabilities are simply awesome (plus support for DXi). I do everything in Cool Edit these days because I still have some nasty problems running midi in and out of Logic (Discovery) through my midi interface (AMT-8). So I'm forced to use my old'n'trusty TS-10's inner sequencer for composing music in midi environment and then record all the stuff as an audio into Cool Edit Pro.

 

Vladislav

 

 

This message has been edited by Gulliver on 10-02-2001 at 08:08 AM

I am back.
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