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Questions about the Korg Triton (help me please)


Blue

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Hi,

 

First of all, let me say that my heart is with the victims of the horrible terrorist attack, with their relatives and with the american people in general (I'm european).

 

I wanted to post this question yesterday, but in such a black day, I felt I was not able to think about "minor" things like buying a synth. Today is not much better than yesterday, but it's urgent for me to take a decision regarding whether to buy a Triton or not before the weekend. Please don't take me for an insensible person, but I have no chance other than asking this (see below) without further delay.

 

To keep it short, I will skip all the steps I've gone through until I came to the conclusion that I have 2 choices: to buy a Triton because of its built-in sequencer, or forget about synth sequencers and go for a "regular" (less expensive) synth. I mean, of course there are like a thousand more "factors": sound, sampler, expansions... But I have already evaluated these ones clearly. Therefore, it's just the built-in sequencer of the triton that is going to be the decisive point to make me finally buy one or not.

 

I have read about the sequencer, asked in other forums, and finally I have been to the shop to have a guy show me how it works. The demonstration was not very good (although it clarified a lot of things in my head), so now I would like somebody (a lovable triton owner?) to please answer some sequencer related questions for me:

 

1) There are quantization options? I think there are, but the clerk didn't talk about them. I'm very worried about the chances of getting all the notes slightly out of place and have to edit them all one by one to make them fit in the precise "beat".

 

2) How good are the cut-copy-move options, specially if it involves "dragging" or "pushing" blocks of notes up or down, from one track to the other...? How much flexibility you have in this regard? Maybe you are better off deleting the track and recording everything again? I want to be able to do as "micro-editing" as possible, to "touch up" things (notes and their position) without having to record everything again from scratch.

 

3) For melodies and chord progressions, I might record them "live". But for some tracks (like bass, battery...), I'd like to build them in a more "artisanal" way, dropping each note in the appropriate beat or halfbeat or whatever, and then separating them another beat or fraction of a beat, etc etc, well I'm sure you know what I mean: rhtymic patterns that you have very clear in your mind so it's faster and less prone to errors to just enter them "manually". Or just the opposite: breakneck solos that I can hear in my head but I lack the ability to play them "a tempo" so I'd rather build them little by little, not in real time. Is it possible? Is it easy? You know, enter some notes, then play them and listen, then make some retouch, play again, stop, edit, maybe add some notes now playing "live", again edit note by note...

 

4) This might sound like a dumb question I should have asked at the store, but didn't thought of it then... You know that screen where you can go and see the notes in every track, as well as their velocity, lenght, etc, from top to bottom. Ok. But if you record more than one note at a time (for example: a chord!), how does this screen show it? It seemed like there was space for just a note in each line. What if, for example, you played a C-E-G and then want to see it and change E for Eb? Or add a Bb?

 

5) One last thing: if you know links to mp3 created just using the triton sequencer, please let me now. I have plenty of tracks created using the triton, but I don't know which sequencer was used. I have some by a guy called Jay Krishnan which he says were created alone in the triton sequencer, but I don't know about the rest.

 

I know I'm asking many things, maybe too much. I'm somehow being selfish, but I have no other chance, believe me and please excuse me. I'm desperate because the rest of the features (sampler, sounds, arpeggios) were either clear to me from the beginning, or just I didn't care so much about some of them. But when it comes to the sequencer...

 

Again, sorry if I "crossed" the line between use and abuse. And of course, a milion thanks to even the lesser help with this questions.

 

blue.

 

This message has been edited by Blue on 09-12-2001 at 01:37 PM

= blue =
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Blue, I don't use the Triton's sequencer, because I am comfortable with the computer based sequencer that I've been using for years. That said, the Triton's sequencer has LOTS of cool features. Keep in mind that the Triton Rack can play back Triton sequences and MIDI files, but that it cannot record or edit them.

 

You can edit notes in real time (with optional real time quantize), step edit, or pattern edit (good for drum patterns). The Track Edit mode has features including resolution (note value), offset (for pushing or laying back the notes, and intensity. You can select the kind of events you want to quantize (note, pitch bend, etc.). You can quantize notes within a range on the keyboard and/or across a range of measures. In other words, you can quantize all notes between C2 and A4 in measures 12-16 if you like.

 

You can copy and delete tracks, copy, insert, delete, move, and repeat measures. There are options for inserting and erasing controller data. You can modify velocity curves, and automate pan, volume, program changes and other parameters. You can chain songs together in something called a queue list. You can filter out controller data and even change time signatures in the middle of a measure (!).

 

I don't think this sequencer is going to disappoint you. Just be prepared to spend some time learning its many features. On top of that, the Triton has a SOUND that you're not going to get out of a less expensive synth. I would suggest that you check out the Triton, the KARMA, and the Motif very seriously before you make your final decision. They all sound great, have a vast array of features, and are reasonably priced.

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The Menu button near the LCD (lower right corner) is the button that takes you into alot of parameters for the sequencer . You may want to revisit the store and experiment with this area . Maybe have the salesperson give the manual to look at . Korg also has a Triton video manual you may want to buy 1st . Take that home first ! dano

PS... When you record using any combi modes , you must open 8 tracks of the sequencer first . I am not a Triton owner ....

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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I just wanted to say thank you so far to all the people who posted answers. Dan thanks for your answer and your email reply.

 

Dano: at the stores here (at least the ones I know), the salespersons don't like people messing around with the instruments, so I can't check anything, and any case I prefer to trust your impressions rather than to build mine in 10 minutes of try-and-error with 2 salespersons over me making sure I am not a criminal trying to break or steal their keyboards.

 

Bauer: yes, I already downloaded all the documentation I could find about the triton. I think I downloaded it from korg and from tritonhaven. But... you know, in the "official" documentation they always tell you everything is so powerful, so complete, so excellent, etc. And, anyway, there are not screenshots of everything in the manual so I can't figure out certain things, neither I'm going to read the entire sequencer manual without having a triton in front of me to try those things. This is the reason why I gave a general reading to the manual and then preferred to ask experienced people directly about how it is the real thing. But thanks a lot anyway, because if I hadn't downloaded the documentation yet, I would have done it right now after seeing your message.

 

I think I'll go for it on saturday morning, but if anyone has anything more to say, please do it!

= blue =
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Originally posted by Blue:

at the stores here (at least the ones I know), the salespersons don't like people messing around with the instruments, so I can't check anything

 

You've got to be joking...

 

What is the point of displaying a musical instrument in a retail environment if customers aren't allowed to play with them? Are they only for show? Do they do they same thing with guitars? How do they expect people to know what the instruments sound and feel like if they can't try them?

 

That seems to me to be a really good way to encourage people to purchase by mail-order from whoever gives them the best price...

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

Affiliations: Cloud Microphones • Music Player Network 

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Well, I suppose if you expressly ask to, they will allow you to play. But for instance, at this store: I arrived there, and ringed a bell (the glass entrance door was locked with key - first sign of paranoia). Then a young clerk opened the door and closed it again with key once I got inside. He quickly turned to me like saying "what do you want?". I told him I was considering buying a new keyboard, and I was specially interested in synths with built in sequencers like the Triton. Again without words he moved his head and pointed to a Triton standing at 1 meter from me, like saying "there it is, something else?". I waited for him to tell me something more like "you wanna try it?" or something like that, I don't know. But he just remained there at my side, silent. Then I had to tell him "well, would you mind showing me the sequencer, how it works, what it can do, please?". Then he called another young guy at a counter in the end of the shop. The 1st guy removed a keyboard that was piled up in the same stand, over the triton, so that there was enough space to see it well, then turned it on and stood in front of the synth until the other clerk came. Then clerk #1 left. Clerk#2 performed some kind of demonstration of the Triton. It was not that he was unpolite or anything, but... his demonstration was not very good, and he looked a bit nervous. Even at a certain point, after I had asked him a couple of questions, he suddenly stopped, turned to me and in a serious tone he told me "but... do you want to buy a Triton?" -- I mean, like saying: "damn, don't make me waste my precious time if you're not sure about this purchase!". It was so unreal... how can I be serious about it if they don't supply me with enough info? I was just about to make a joke and answer something like "buy a triton? me? no, not at all! I just play bagpipes, but there was nothing on tv and I thought I could have some fun here".

 

But once he finished his "demonstration", he didn't even invited me to try the keyboard. I suppose if I had asked to, he would have allowed me. Anyway, I've already heard a thousand demos of triton sounds, so it doesn't bother me that much. In fact I can pay more attention to the details if it's another person the one playing. But yes, I find it very weird that they are not interested in letting people try out the synths... after all, they want to sell something or not??

 

Regarding guitars, I don't know. They are in a separate shop, in the other side of the street. In fact I first entered there by error, and was redirected to the appropriate place. No locked door there, at least. Maybe they think guitar players are less dangerous than keyboardists.

 

Maybe it looks weird that I accept such a bad sales-attitude as a natural thing. Well, maybe it's because I've grown used to it, since there is a bigger music store near my house where things are much worse. You can believe me, they are not only inept, but unpolite and offensive. You'll have to take my word on that.

 

A friend of mine went to other shop in my city where I have not been. He told me that he entered the shop, said good morning and looked at the clerks waiting that somebody said "good morning, may I help you?". But no, they ignored him. He stood there thinking they were busy and would talk to him once they were finished with whatever they were doing. Then some guy (possibly a friend of the salespersons) entered the shop, and the salespersons quickly went out of their counter to welcome him and listen to what he had to say. My friend felt so pissed off that he left the shop.

 

Well, and that's it.

 

 

This message has been edited by Blue on 09-13-2001 at 12:13 PM

= blue =
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I agree with db; if I were treated like that I would just buy my gear online. The brick and mortar shops have the advantage that you can go in and see and play the real thing...if they don't give you that ability, why shop there? I've been buying all of my gear from a local store that has quite a nice selection of synths, recording equip, PA's, etc. I admit they don't always know the most about every piece of gear, but they let me try it out thoroughly and they treat me well. Plus they have a 7 day return policy. I know people who have used the return policy with no hassles. I can't imagine buying a keyboard without playing it first, since the feel and impression I get from it is so important. I like to patronize the local shops, as long as the prices aren't way out of line, since it's so nice to have a place to go to actually see equipment. Heck, the only shopping I actually like to do is in a music store surrounded by all sorts of cool gear.

-pete

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Blue -

 

Here's my recommendation - tell them that this thing costs a lot of money, and if they don't let you spend as much time with the instrument as you need to feel comfortable with it that not only you are going to buy it elsewhere,but you will also recommend to your friends that they do the same in the future.

 

That should do it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

If they still choose not to help you and it is easiest for you to do business there, I suggest that you take it up with the store manager/owner - I'll bet he'll make sure that you can play it.

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

Affiliations: Cloud Microphones • Music Player Network 

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Yo Blue,

One thing that is difficult with phone shopping for Korg products is what Korg calls a MAP price . Every store you call should quote the same price for the Triton's . This kinda of forces you to visit stores to get the prices . Korg does give the retailer to give away free stuff with there products that retailers can advertise or quote . I feel for you . It is sometimes difficult finding a good store with good people . dano

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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Originally posted by dano:

One thing that is difficult with phone shopping for Korg products is what Korg calls a MAP price .

 

I believe brother Blue is in Spain. I'm not sure that MAP pricing is in effect there .I think that's mainly a US thing...

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

Affiliations: Cloud Microphones • Music Player Network 

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"Brother Blue"! I like how it sounds! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Thanks for the recommendation Dave. In fact that's what I told them at the store in two occasions (the 1st being when the salesperson asked me "you wanna buy a triton or not?" -- I had to tell him that I needed to be sure before spending such an amount of money). Also please excuse me if I didn't express myself well enough: I am almost sure that if I had expressly asked to play it, I would have been allowed (under strict supervision, of course...). The weird thing is that they seemed to feel more comfortable not inviting me to do so, because while the synth was turned on, they never got away from it.

 

Regarding the MAP price, I don't know about it or what "map" stands for... but this store has really good prices, I'll give'em that, definitely. The best I've seen in my country by far. They are about 20% less than the "list" price, they also have a small web page to show their prices and to receive orders (they are mainly store based, but they also sell online). And after all, they told me they could try to help me to solve my potential sequencer problems if I buy the Triton (which is funny since that's the only thing I know I won't need; not only because the internet is full of information about the triton -forums, etc- , but because they didn't seem to be triton sequencer experts, to say the least...). Anyway I appreciated it. I don't think they are bad people, it's just that they don't have the appropriate commercial profile (being able to deal with customers, listen to them, try to make the best match between available products and customer's needs, provide alternatives, etc etc etc). They just seemed to be there issuing invoices and making sure nobody steals nothing, like gear sells alone. Maybe it does, I don't know http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

By the way, Dave is right, I'm a genuine spanish... living in Spain. Not very original.

 

Thanks for all your comments.

 

PS- I think I'll buy it in less than 48 hours...

 

This message has been edited by Blue on 09-13-2001 at 06:09 PM

= blue =
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Ive never personally used a Triton even in a music store, but I do use a Karma, and, if Im correct, is practically has the same sequencer as the Triton. I might not be able to help too much, as im just an amatuer at this stuff.

 

So, to answer your questions -

 

1) Yes, the sequencer as a quantization option. I personally havent used it as I step-sequence everything. I write all rhythms down and sequence note by note.

 

2) The cut-copy-paste features are pretty decent. I use it alot for loops. I program a few measures of a loop then copy and paste. From my experience, I think, you can only copy-cute-paste by measures, not by notes, but you can shift/erase notes. Sometimes I find it easier to rerecord the sequence then messing around copy and paste to make it "right" again. Cant do much with individual notes, at least not that I know of.

 

Like Dansouth said, there is a feature called "Track Edit." That is where you can do all kinds of majoring editing on tracks, like cut, copy, paste, quantize, etc. And, in track edit, there is another option called "Event Edit." In that feature, you can edit notes, control change, pitch bend, after touch, program change, and poly after touch. When you "Event Edit" notes, you can individually edit the notes that have been inputted. You can change the note, the beat its on, the velocity and the time signiture of the measure. And, if you want, you can insert notes too and edit the notes from there.

 

You can also, in "Track Edit," do many more things besides cut, copy and paste. You can also erase the track, copy/bounce track, shift/erase note, modify velocity, erase measure, delete measure, insert measure, repeat measure, copy measure, and move measure.

 

3) From what I can get from question number 3 is the option to step sequence. Yes, you can step sequence measures. Enter a few notes in a measure or few, listen to it, if its not good rerecord it. If its good, continue on recording.

 

4) I dont know what you are talking about, as I have never used a Triton, so I would not know. I do know that if you step sequence a chord, youll see all the individual notes, but all of them would be on the same beat in the measure.

 

The sequencer is pretty feature packed and, like Dansouth said, "Just be prepared to spend some time learning its many features." I know Im still learning a lot of different features ever since having my synth since April.

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Ive never personally used a Triton even in a music store, but I do use a Karma, and, if Im correct, is practically has the same sequencer as the Triton. I might not be able to help too much, as im just an amatuer at this stuff.

 

So, to answer your questions -

 

1) Yes, the sequencer as a quantization option. I personally havent used it as I step-sequence everything. I write all rhythms down and sequence note by note.

 

2) The cut-copy-paste features are pretty decent. I use it alot for loops. I program a few measures of a loop then copy and paste. From my experience, I think, you can only copy-cute-paste by measures, not by notes, but you can shift/erase notes. Sometimes I find it easier to rerecord the sequence then messing around copy and paste to make it "right" again. Cant do much with individual notes, at least not that I know of.

 

Like Dansouth said, there is a feature called "Track Edit." That is where you can do all kinds of majoring editing on tracks, like cut, copy, paste, quantize, etc. And, in track edit, there is another option called "Event Edit." In that feature, you can edit notes, control change, pitch bend, after touch, program change, and poly after touch. When you "Event Edit" notes, you can individually edit the notes that have been inputted. You can change the note, the beat its on, the velocity and the time signiture of the measure. And, if you want, you can insert notes too and edit the notes from there.

 

You can also, in "Track Edit," do many more things besides cut, copy and paste. You can also erase the track, copy/bounce track, shift/erase note, modify velocity, erase measure, delete measure, insert measure, repeat measure, copy measure, and move measure.

 

3) From what I can get from question number 3 is the option to step sequence. Yes, you can step sequence measures. Enter a few notes in a measure or few, listen to it, if its not good rerecord it. If its good, continue on recording.

 

4) I dont know what you are talking about, as I have never used a Triton, so I would not know. I do know that if you step sequence a chord, youll see all the individual notes, but all of them would be on the same beat in the measure.

 

The sequencer is pretty feature packed and, like Dansouth said, "Just be prepared to spend some time learning its many features." I know Im still learning a lot of different features ever since having my synth since April.

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Industriac - a million thanks! Really, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. After the other answers, I came to the conclusion that I did not have to worry about those things, that everything would be okay. But it's good to finally have the answers to know it first hand.

 

Thanks everyone again!

 

PS- And btw, I think I did not say it in any post, but of course I know it's gonna take months to learn to use the triton even just at a medium level. But I always learn everything I decide to learn, so I'm not worried about that point (it's not that I'm more intelligent than the average or anything -- it's just a question of determination).

= blue =
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I don't know, guys, I've never had that kind of a problem at a music store. I've went to Master Musicians, Mars, Guitar Center, Music Go Round, and other local places, and the only time I was ruldely interupted while playing was at a piano store, but I can understand, it was like a $10,000 piano and I'm some 19 year old with long hair and piercings wearing all black with a Type O Negative shirt on!

 

But anyway, all the big stores I've ever went to not only let you play anything you want, they ENCOURAGE it! Like Mars, I go to the guitar section, and the guy comes up to me: "Can I help you?" I say, no thanks, just looking. He says: "Ok. You can play anything you want, and if you can't reach something let me know and I'll get it down for you" same with keyboard department.

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