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Motif 6 vs Motif 7. $400 for a 15 more keys???


Rod S

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Ok, we've had enough motif threads, but I felt this deserved a thread of it's own. I'm looking at the latest MF catalog, there's a $400 difference from the Motif 6 and 7. From what I can tell the only difference is more keys. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif $400 for a couple more keys???? You gotta be kidding me. What am I missing?

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

MBP-LOGIC

American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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It's more than just the extra keys...different case, different packaging as well. It costs a bit to do a separate run of both.

 

Plus, if they were only a few bucks apart, who'd buy the 61-key version? They're clearly defining separate marketing niches - the 76-key buyer is a different tier than the 61-key buyer.

 

Capitalism, guys... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

Affiliations: Cloud Microphones • Music Player Network 

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That's a good comment DB . I never thought about the cost of making a different case for the 76 note model .

I have owned a 61 note keyboard for awhile now and just recently got a 76 note keyboard . The 76 note keyboard in my opinion has made me a better player ! So $400.00 for 76 keys ? Yes ! if it is my main keyboard .

Dan o

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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The Motif 8 has weighted action keys (replicates a real piano), the Motif 6 and 7 do not. That is where the main price difference comes in, not in the number of keys. Go to your local music store and play both a 6/7 and and 8 and you will KNOW the difference. I would much prefer the 8 myself due to the weighted action, but it is VERY heavy (over 60 pounds) and won't do me much good for contstant gigging (can we say back pain?).

Peace.

 

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Sincerely,

Dave AbsoluteCross.com

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Originally posted by Keyz316:

The Motif 8 has weighted action keys (replicates a real piano), the Motif 6 and 7 do not. That is where the main price difference comes in, not in the number of keys.

 

Did I miss somethng here?

 

I thought that we were talking about the difference between the 6 & 7...where did the 8 come into it?

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

Affiliations: Cloud Microphones • Music Player Network 

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Hey, all you Motif owners ~ I am seriously, repeat seriously looking into buying the Motif 8. I have been checking them out, but need to know some finer points.

 

I originally started out checking the 61 note. Okay.

 

Then I dabbled on the 76 note. Groovy. Nice keyboard, nice range. If you were not a piano-raised keyboardist, the 76 note keyboard would fill all your needs. Good weight, groovy range.

 

But for my needs, the Motif 8 with 88 notes does indeed feel pretty good. Over the years I have had just about one of every 88 note controller, and the Motif 8 feels pretty good. It is not a Steinway or Yamaha grand piano action. But it is quite easy on the arms, wrists and fingers for 4-hour gigs or 6-hour recording sessions. That is important to me.

 

Yes, I am getting to my Motif question.

 

Keyboards are all subjective. I use my patened Dr.F Keyboard Review tab that a I take every where. For my needs, the Motif comes up pretty good. Good pianos, good Elec.pianos, good organs, good drums.

 

What puzzles me though is the bass sounds and the synth sounds.

 

How have you Motif owners found the bass sounds so far? Are they programmable? Where?

 

And the synths sound ~ so far, at shop tests I have yet to unearth the synth engine of the Motif. That is, the fundamental tweaky bits. Does the motif have one, or is that it?

 

How deep can you get in programming synth sounds on the motif? Because if it doesn't go too deep, then I'll just have to keep my other gear.

 

Thanks to all that reply (or point me in the direction of previously covered threads)

Oh yeah? That's fine for you, you're an accepted member of the entertainment community. What about me? What about Igor? Marginalized by Hollywood yet again. I want my Mummy . . .
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Hello Dr.,oc ,

The knobs and sliders on the motif allow you to tweak sounds instantly .

Have you checked out the performance mode vs. the voice mode ? Many fat sounds and loops are in the performance mode . All the edit capibilities are accessed via the function buttons located under the LCD display . Once you start messing with those functions you use the cursor buttons to navigate through the display . I think the arpegiator on the Motif is more musical vs. the Triton . Drums kick butt onthe Motif ! Try these things out on your next visit to a store . Very cool keyboard . dano

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

It's more than just the extra keys...different case, different packaging as well. It costs a bit to do a separate run of both.

 

Plus, if they were only a few bucks apart, who'd buy the 61-key version? They're clearly defining separate marketing niches - the 76-key buyer is a different tier than the 61-key buyer.

 

Dave, I disagree. If they need to charge that amount of money for different packaging and assembly process their R&D Dept and manuf SUCKS. You probably have a better idea of profit margins and manuf costs in the music equipment industry, but from my experience I have a hard time believing it. I've worked in both low volume and high volume production, and I refuse to believe that the difference is caused by packaging costs. We're talking about 25% more for the Motif 7 because of keys! I've seen products cost LESS than that between module versions and keyboard versions, and that includes keyboard, new packaging, wiring for knobs, mod wheel, whole different layout. The difference between the cs6x and cs6r was <$400 street price at one point, that's why I got the keyboard version to begin with (I got a special deal which bought the difference to about $200, but I don't remember it being > $350.)

 

$200 I can swallow and would differentiate the product. There's no way I'd pay that kind of money for a different keybed.

 

No offense (I know you've worked in marketing), but this seems TO ME like marketing idiocy from Yamaha's side (or maybe a stroke of genius, if they pull if off, I guess) - why does marketing people like to ride on that edge? I've been in 2 companies where marketing has botched up marketing opportunities and screwed things up by their decisions and actions (and done contract work on the side for another one where they actually managed to sink the company), and this just seems like a poor marketing decision, based purely on conceptions rather than actual manufacturing costs and profit margins. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but this is truly how I believe and I have stories that prove it.

 

I rest my case, I was hoping someone would point out to some other difference I hadn't realized (like extra outputs, more board slots, or SOMETHING).

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

MBP-LOGIC

American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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Rod,

I believe that Yamaha is making more motif6's than 7's . Do you think that might have something to do with cost ? It does take a bigger frame to make a motif7 than 6 . I know for a fact that the wholesale cost of the motif6 and 7 is around $350.00 . The 61 note Triton is $400.00 less than the Triton pro ( 76keys) . The Qs7.1 was around $200.00 to $300.00 difference vs. the QS6.1 . How about the Roland XP80(76 keys) vs XP60 (61 keys) . The difference is also around $300.00 . There seems to be some consistancy among the Manufacturers .

Your statement about marketing is pretty accurate . I have seen Kurzweil products reduced 40% ! A K2600xs was $5995.00 . You walk into a store today and see them for $3500.00 .Kurzweil ended up totally cleaning house.

Many people were let go in the USA .

Roland has drastically reduced their price point on all of the hard disk recorders ...the VS1880 is $1499.99 now vs . $2199.99 in December .

Roland also recalled the VP9000 . The VP9000 is a great tool . However the price point was to steep . So ....Maybe in time the cost difference between the motif 6 and 7 will change . Mistakes are made .

Just my 2 cents worth ..... dano

www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO
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dano-

 

Good points - but - the ones you mentioned HAD other features in the bigger brothers (as far as I know) alesis 7.1 had the adat output and the aux pair that the qs6.1 didn't. There was something different about the roland. I can't remember about the triton. I'm curious and I will look it up.

 

The volume definitely has to do it, I agree. However, the tooling costs should be comparable to make the frames, and the raw material is not going to make that much of a difference. I'm sure the guts of the synthesizer are the same, you just have the attachment points for the pcbs and assembly screws. The sliders and such are the same, and it shouldn't cost more to assemble one vs the other, unless that is done intentionally, with something like saving on assembly fixtures.

 

This is the point I'm making. AFAIK there is NO other difference. If someone can point me to a product that this was the case before, I'm curious. No extra/different features other than the keyboard. A lot of these synths were released after the fact too from their 'brothers'... yamaha is releasing all this stuff simultaneously!

 

In any case, even if this has been done in the past, I think it's absurd. Rarely have I seen co's slashing the cost of a product in HALF (Certain Kompany comes to mind)! Wouldn't it be great if BMW announced that the 3 series had halved in price? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Profit margin is not an exact science, but from a customer's point of view (mine), the situation doesn't make any sense. I for sure wouldn't pay that difference.

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

MBP-LOGIC

American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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Originally posted by Rod CA:

Profit margin is not an exact science, but from a customer's point of view (mine), the situation doesn't make any sense. I for sure wouldn't pay that difference.

 

Then you're not the target customer.

 

Someone who wants the extra keys will gladly shell out the extra $400, because the 5-octave board just ain't an option. That's why the manufacturerrs make 76-key models, and charge what they charge. Period.

 

It's a pain for manufacturers to make them - they don't sell anywhere near as many units of 76-key models as 61 key versions, so they have to make up the defferential that they lose in quantity with price. If they didn't make a 76 key version, the average 76-key potential buyer would find a different keyboard that had 76 keys - they wouldn't buy the 61 key version. Trust me on this one...

 

Here's the point, Rod. If you want 76 keys, you have no choice. Period. They can charge whatever they want. Are they being fair? Probably not. Do they care? Definitely not.

 

They're pandering to a market niche that is the smallest of the three (61, 76, 88), but it definitely exists.

 

Lke I said - capitalism. I didn't say that it was fair. The two are frequently mutually exclusive.

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

 

Affiliations: Cloud Microphones • Music Player Network 

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On a different note, I played the Motif 7 yesterday, and I coudn't peel myself away from it. I mean the action on the keys is so smooth it just felt sooooooo smoooooth, it made me play so much better. I coudn't believe it. I wonder if it has the same keys as the 6? Nice, Nice, Nice.

Can't wait to play the 8!!

 

That's my next keyboard, in about a zillion years.

 

Albert

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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On a different note, I played the Motif 7 yesterday, and I coudn't peel myself away from it. I mean the action on the keys is so smooth it just felt sooooooo smoooooth, it made me play so much better. I coudn't believe it. I wonder if it has the same keys as the 6? Nice, Nice, Nice.

Can't wait to play the 8!!

 

That's my next keyboard, in about a zillion years.

 

Albert

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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I would have to agree with Dave on this one. I work for a small company that makes highly specialized scientific instruments (wish I could say they were musical instruments). That I am aware of there is only one other company in the world that makes the same type of equipment, but it is for a very small market. We had a meeting a while back where some of my companies practices were discussed and we were flat out told by the then vice president that it DID NOT MATTER (strongly emphasized) what it costs us to make a product, only what the customer would pay for it.

 

As Dave said, it's capitalism. Whether that's right or wrong is entirely up to you to decide for yourself.

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