Questions for Alesis QS-8 owners & users

[coyote]

I like simple things I can sit down & play, and hate the idea of having to go into submenus during a performance. I was looking at the Yamaha P80 as my piano, but I'm reconsidering.

 

Many say the QS-8 would be a better option, as it's more versatile. My questions are:

 

1. The piano action. Are you satisfied w/ it? Are the weight, touch, & aftertouch good?

2. Grand piano sound. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate GP sound? True sustain/decay?

3. Rhodes sound. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate sound? Can the brightness be adjusted via front-panel?

4. Clavinet. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate sound?

5. Effects. Do they sound good in **mono**? In particular, Tremolo (esp. for Rhodes). Variable depth & rate? Are those parameters assignable to front-panel controls?

6. Do the attack characteristics of the sounds resemble those of the original instruments?

Thanks for your help!

 

This message has been edited by coyote on 04-27-2001 at 10:42 AM

[Dave Bryce]

Coyote -

 

I'll try to answer your questions - however, as the guy who was the product evangelist and head of the synth division for Alesis, I'm not sure if my opinions are entirely objective. You're gonna want to try the instrument out for yourself. I'll try as best as I can to stick to objective facts, okay?

 

1. The piano action. Are you satisfied w/ it? Are the weight, touch, & aftertouch good?

 

I think that the QS8 has an excellent touch - it is the main controllr in my studio. It is a FATAR TP20 keybed, and uses metal and felt moving-mass hammer action, as opposed to a lot of the other FATAR-equipped synths that use a plastic moving-mass hammer action. Your hands need to be the judge of this, though...they'll be the ones playing it.

 

2. Grand piano sound. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate GP sound? True sustain/decay?

 

I have an extremem personal affinity for the QS piano. It is a non-compressed stereo sample of a Bosendorfer Imperial grand, and I think it's gorgeous. The sustain/decay is actually one of my favorite aspects of it. Here's a great acid test...hold down the sus pedal, and run a gliss from top to bottom on the QS8, or any other keyboard, and listen. You will probably find that the QS8 sounds very realistic. However, everyone has different ears, so your mileage may vary. You might also want to try either the Classical piano QCard (Fazioli grand) or the Jazz Piano QCard (K. Kawai grand).

 

3. Rhodes sound. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate sound? Can the brightness be adjusted via front-panel?

 

There is one Rhodes program in the QS8 called Pays Rhodes (Preset 1, program 5) that just kills me - very crunchy, very authentic. I also use quite a few of the EPs on the Vintage Keys Qcard...and yes, you can brighten them from the front panel, although you may have to assign that to a slider yourself depending on the program.

 

4. Clavinet. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate sound?

 

Two, IMO. Try Clavitube (Pre1, program 10,) and Real Clav (Pre1, program 11)...also, try the clav in program 40 on the Vintage Keys card...

 

5. Effects. Do they sound good in **mono**?

 

Never tried it, actually...

 

In particular, Tremolo (esp. for Rhodes). Variable depth & rate?

 

Yes - the effects processor on board the QS8 is the same chip from the Q2 - it rocks.

 

Are those parameters assignable to front-panel controls?

 

You betcha.

 

Once again, I can't emphasize enough how important it is that you try the synth before you buy it...however, there's a reason that the QS8 outsold every other synth in the country for three years, and it ain't just the price point. Go play one - you'll dig it. Try the Hammonds too - they're quite nasty. Also, make sure and use the sliders on every patch to see what they do.

 

dB

[Bfunk]

Coyote,

 

As a former QS8 user who is now playing a P80, I'll take a shot at some of your questions.

 

The action is why I bought the Alesis in the first place. It felt great at the time, but now I've found the Yamaha's action to be heavier and much more piano-like.

 

I've always hated the Alesis piano sounds (even when I owned it I used a module to produce the piano sound.) They all sound thin and fake to me, but that's completely a matter of personal taste. I've talked to many musician's who love the QS8 piano. I think the Grand Piano in the P80 is about the best I've heard, amazingly responsive and realistic, especially with respect to attack. But again, it's all a matter of personal preference.

 

There are a couple of good Rhodes sounds in the QS8 and you can assign various parameters to the four sliders for front panel adjustments (although editing is not very intuitive IMO). The P-80 has two decent rhodes sounds as well as a brightness slider. They sound especially good when I turn off the effects and run them thorough a slow rotating speaker with lots of tube distortion.

 

The clavs in the QS8 left a little to be desired, but they're better than nothing, which is what the P80 offers for clavs. Why on earth they would give you two harpsicords and no clavs is beyond me.

 

If you want simple playablility and great piano sounds, definitely go with the P80. The Alesis has hundreds of sounds and features that you'll probably never use (I never did). You can always add a module to the P80 if you need more sounds.

 

Peace

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I think I can help, since I own a QS8 and have spent a lot of time playing my pal's P80. Both are great keyboards, and there's a lot of subjectivity to the questions you ask. But here are some opinions from me:

 

I like simple things I can sit down & play, and hate the idea of having to go into submenus during a performance. I was looking at the Yamaha P80 as my piano, but I'm reconsidering.

 

QS8 is about as simple as it gets for just sitting down and playing.

 

1. The piano action. Are you satisfied w/ it? Are the weight, touch, & aftertouch good?

 

Yes. Very satisfied. All of the above. And the P80's is good too.

 

2. Grand piano sound. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate GP sound? True sustain/decay?

 

I am happy with the internal Bosendorfer piano sound, but I also own the two piano expansion QCards (classical and jazz) which give me another two completely different pianos to choose from (Kawai and Fazzioli, I believe).

 

3. Rhodes sound. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate sound? Can the brightness be adjusted via front-panel?

 

Yeah, I love the "Ray's Rhoads" patch. The realism of the crunchiness modulation with higher velocities is so cool. And there are EQ parameters that you can adjust if you want.

 

4. Clavinet. Does it come w/ at least one outstanding & accurate sound?

 

Yeah, there's a good clav. Personally, for my music, I enjoy it a bit harsher, so it was very simple to tweak this to my tastes.

 

5. Effects. Do they sound good in **mono**? In particular, Tremolo (esp. for Rhodes). Variable depth & rate? Are those parameters assignable to front-panel controls?

 

I've never used the effects in mono, but the parameters of effects are menu-driven. The exception are those parameters which are assigned to the four sliders, which can be re-assigned by you for more real-time control. Usually tremelo on Rhodes is pre-assigned to the mod wheel.

 

6. Do the attack characteristics of the sounds resemble those of the original instruments?

 

Many do. Some don't. Once again, my opinion, but I find the strengths of the QS series are its pianos, EPs, organs, pads and synth tones. Drums are okay. I'm not a fan of the strings, horns, most guitars, basses or winds.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

You are very welcome.

 

- Jeff

[steadyb]

I've had a QS8 for 4 years now, and love it. As each new "challenger" comes along, I'll go out and give it a try, to see if the newest is necessarily better, and in the case of the P80, the answer is "no". As for the heavier action, I'd describe it more as klunky, and not as good a choice, especially for playing live. Also on the QS8, you have a much better selection of sounds, the pianos are killer (Pre-2 Dark Classical, my personal fave), and they sound great recorded. I've used them on many album, TV, and film dates, with much success. But, as Dave said, check for yourself.

steadyb

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by steadyb:

the pianos are killer (Pre-2 Dark Classical, my personal fave)

 

Yuck! Maybe it's my frequency-deadened ears, but I much prefer True Stereo and Pure Stereo. SteadyB, did you ever check out Boris Weidenfeld's tweaked piano patch, which I think he named "Boriano"? It was about the best QS piano tweak I ever heard. Dave also appreciated it, if I recall correctly.

 

- Jeff

[coyote]

Thanks for the responses so far, and I'm hoping for more opinions. My experience:

 

I played both in my local music store a few days ago. Liked the Yamaha feel, and the simple (& obvious) controls. The GP, Rhodes, & tremolo Rhodes sounds all struck me as being on-target. But.... where's the Clav? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif But it's only a few hundred cheaper than the QS-8, which obviously is much more versatile. So....

 

The QS-8 felt pretty good too - and not being stuck on a particular feel I'm sure I'd grow to really like it. Some of the sounds were pretty good, but the grand piano didn't sound as good to me as the Yamaha. The Rhodes was pretty good, but I didn't know how to change tone or add tremolo! (No salespeople were available to help at the moment.) A couple of the Hammond sounds are great but I already own an A-100 so I really don't need 'em (though in some situations which have space or transport limitations it would come in handy). I'll have to give a good listen to the brass/wind/string sounds. As for guitar sounds etc... call me a Luddite but I'd never buy a keyboard based on the 'guitar' sound it delivers - I'll just play a guitar if the band needs another guitar. Same for drums (though recording my congas has been a pain in the butt).

 

More opinions please - and thanks again!

[b_3guy]

I too have had the QS-8 for almost 4 years. After all this time the True Stereo still does it for me. It is bright enough to cut in a live rock scenerio, but not so bright that it doesn't work in a ballad. In this day of Giga Sampler & Unity Samplers I feel like it still holds its own. I've had great discussions with other players in regards to this patch. They all agree. Only the Giga Sampler & the Roland Cadillac Board (the model number escapes me) are better. I've been in studio situations where another player has been in before me.They ask me to do Hammond stuff. Then they ask me to do other piano tracks. I drag out the QS-8 & they marvel at the piano sound. I tried all the others before I bought it & I've tried everyone that has come out since. I still prefer it.

 

The Rhodes patch I like is the Ray Rhodes. I have a Rhodes 73. Tolerable. It seems to have a velocity sensitive bass tone that disappears when you hit it hard. Other than that its very usable.

 

I currently don't own a Clavinet. But I had one in the past. These Clavs suck. Sorry Dave.

 

I have a Wurlitzer 200. The only thing the QS-8 Wurly patches have in common with a Wurlitzer are the names.

 

String & horn section sounds are good enough. Individual string & horns are poor.

 

All analogue sounds are excellent for digital samples. A lot of them came from Keith Emerson's modular moog.

 

After I hear how good something sounds the next thing I ask how much it weighs (57lbs). At the time it was the lightest. Now with the current crop of cheap 88 note boards coming out (like the P-80) it falls in the medium to light category.

 

The action is great. Very quick. Before it I used an RD-300. It has a 10? upward tilt to the keyboard, like real pianos. My RD did not have this, but I think most now have it. This is really important to me. I play standing up. It allows a better angle for my hands. People seem to think that a Roland/Yamaha/Kurzwell has action like a real piano. I don't know what real piano they are playing. They don't feel like a real piano to me. The QS-8 seems closer.

 

Since I hump my own gear, it travels in a gig bag. It now has a cracked end piece. I'm waiting to open up the bag & see it in 2 pieces. Its made of Oak. I'm sure if it was in a roadcase, it would be fine.

 

Dave: Please note - I bought it for the piano sound & the 2 following reasons.

They promised separate effects for each patch in multi-timbral mode. Wrong.

They provide Aux Stereos outs. But they don't have the same sound (effects) as do the Main Stereo Outs.

 

The effects in Mono are fine. Alesis produces some of the best effects in the business. Some are even industry standards. I'm not an aftertouch fan but it seems to work.

 

I did play the P-80 at the music store where I bought my QS-8. The piano sound didn't wow me. Nor did it wow the sales guys at the store. They sell all the major brands. They stiil rank the QS-8's pianos up there with the best.

 

Patch changing live is a bit crappy. It promises to hold the sound until you let go of the keys. It does but there is a bump in the sound. Enough of a bump that the other guys on stage notice. I do like the nice big rubber buttons. No chance of your finger sliding off.

 

I think what's missing in your questions are would you buy the board if you had to do it again. I would say Yes. It gives me an excellent piano sound with a bunch of other misc. sounds to cover horns, strings, piano-strings, accordians, percussion, etc. without having to hook up another module or lug another board. Hooking up another module does get to be a pain. With the XK-2 it gives me a complete rig. If I was a touring muscian, I would still use it but get something better for the misc. sounds. So for $200 in the difference between the QS-8 & the P-80, you get a great sounding module that you don't have to hook up, but it does weigh 15-20 lbs more.

 

Good job Dave.

[Guest]

I have a QS8 I'll sell you for half price incl. gig bag and jazz card.

To my taste the QS8 is a fine studio board, but it just lacks playability in live situations. It records great. The pure piano patch as well as many selections on the jazz card are as good as I've heard recorded. But live is something else. The pianos sound horrible in mono and even in stereo they lose something as soon as the volume levels get a little above typical studio dbs. Some mod wheel effects don't respond in mono either.

 

Keith Emerson used one to emulate his infamous synth sounds on the last tour and they sounded great. I like the clavitube as well. Some nice ambient pads too.

 

It really has a virtual sea of possibilities, but as a live board IMHO it just has not served me well. I have acually come home from gigs with bruised fingertips!!! And mine are well caloused from guitar and bass, as well as from being a lumberjack for a number of years.

 

The P80 sounds great although I thought the action was a little stiff. I really liked the new Kawai EX88, though I don't know why they didn't use the keys from that big heavy monster they make. The Roland FP3 looks as though it might be a winner too though I haven't gotten to play one yet. Fortunately for me our guitarist manages a store that sells all these boards and I will get to try them all out at gigs before I buy.

 

One thing I want to know is: WHY IN THEEEEE HEEELLLLLL CAN'T A COMPANY PUT ALL THE POSITIVE ATTRIBUTES OF EACH OF THESE BOARD TOGETHER INTO THE SAME BOARD. I AIN'T BUYING COST EXCUSES, DAMMIT. IT'S ENOUGH TO TURN A FELLOW INTO A CONSPIRACY THEORIST!!!!! Why it's enough to make a good musician go HaYwIrE &*%)*()*(&V&*(V&*%VC^%V*^%*(^%*^GG^%JGF

 

frustrating I tell you, DAMNED FRUSTRATING JW

[steadyb]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

Yuck! Maybe it's my frequency-deadened ears, but I much prefer True Stereo and Pure Stereo. SteadyB, did you ever check out Boris Weidenfeld's tweaked piano patch, which I think he named "Boriano"? It was about the best QS piano tweak I ever heard. Dave also appreciated it, if I recall correctly.

 

 

- Jeff

 

Gee, thanks Jeff. Yes, I like it because it is darker, but in a rich sounding way. And after too many years in rock bands, I'm sure I'm missing some highs too. These days I play in the studio almost exclusively, and it records pretty well. (Although I used True Stereo in a session just this morning) Anyway, I guess everyone's ears are different, as is everyone's taste, and that, as they say is what makes a horse race. Never got to here Boris's piano.

steadyb

[lovenara]

i own a QS8.1 for nearly 3 yrs now

not a good pianist though ( started practising it in my middleage )

so i can't really tell how much it differs from real one

but one thing that nags me all the time is the sound of keys moving up and down when they're being played

sometime practising softly at night you'll be hearing nothing but those tweaky noises

i'm sure this won't happen to real piano

[steadyb]

Originally posted by istyle@hotmail.com:

i own a QS8.1 for nearly 3 yrs now

not a good pianist though ( started practising it in my middleage )

so i can't really tell how much it differs from real one

but one thing that nags me all the time is the sound of keys moving up and down when they're being played

sometime practising softly at night you'll be hearing nothing but those tweaky noises

i'm sure this won't happen to real piano

 

 

Since there's no volune knob on a piano (or headphone jack), I don't think you can get a piano to be as quiet. If you're trying to avoid waking up sleeping kids, or over sensitive neighbors, the sound of keys moving up and down should still be quieter. Most electronic piaons aren't going to feel or sound as authentic as an actual acoustic piano, but for late night practicing convevience, they have the edge.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by b_3guy:

I currently don't own a Clavinet. But I had one in the past. These Clavs suck. Sorry Dave.

 

Hey, man - no need to apologize to me. Just because I like 'em doesn't mean that you have to. Try the one on the VIntage Keys card...it's woodier. The card is worth the $$$ - nicer EPs, different organs (including Farfisas and such) and some nice Mellotron and string machine samples.

 

String & horn section sounds are good enough. Individual string & horns are poor.

 

Classical QCard improves these.

 

Dave: Please note - I bought it for the piano sound & the 2 following reasons.

They promised separate effects for each patch in multi-timbral mode. Wrong.

 

Who is "they"? Did someone from Alesis tell you this? I know that it wasn't me...are you sure that you didn't misinterpret some info?

 

I'll attempt to clarify the actual deal:

 

It is possible to have four separate effects busses, each with it's own series of effects; however, it is next to impossible to maintain the correct effects for each program if you do that. Most of the programs that we wrote for the QS series used algorithms 4 & 5. Algorithm 4 uses a parametric EQ, and algorithm 5 contains the distortion block. The algorithms that use the four busses (1 and 3) will not allow you to use either of these tools, so the original effects from program mode will almost definitely be lost.

 

Additionally, while it is possible to use the four busses to gain four separate effects sends, it's kind of tough to get a handle on it, especially from the front panel. You'll want to use the Unisyn profile if you really wanna get into that.

 

The idea behind the four busses was twofold - primarily, it was meant to allow a separate buss for each of the four voices in a program - a very nice feature. Secondarily, it was meant to give you four busses in Mix mode - also a nice feature. However, as I said, it's a bit tough to navigate on the small display. This was originally a feature in the Quadrasynth, which had a bigger, more visually oriented display and was easier to navigate.

 

I actually photocopied the five algorithms from the manual and taped them to my wall until I could see them in my head.

 

They provide Aux Stereos outs. But they don't have the same sound (effects) as do the Main Stereo Outs.

 

The aux outs have no effects at all, actually. They were provided to allow you to remove an instrument or two from the main mix (such as a kick drum, or a bass) easily.

 

Additionally, from a hardware point of view, the chip that drives the QS engine only supports eight busses. The are allotted as follows - two for the main outs, two for the aux outs, and four for the effects section, so there isn't really an easy way to get the effects over to the aux busses.

 

Patch changing live is a bit crappy. It promises to hold the sound until you let go of the keys. It does but there is a bump in the sound. Enough of a bump that the other guys on stage notice.

 

That can actually be avoided.

 

What you are hearing is the effects changing, not the program. You can prove that to yourself by changing programs in the GM bank, which all use the same effects configuration - no bump. You can do two things to avoid it - either turn the effects off on the programs that you're switching between, or copy the effects configuration from one program to another in page 3 of the STORE menu. Either of these things will stop the bump.

 

Hope some of that helps...

 

dB

[b_3guy]

Thanks Dave for responding to the thread. You are correct in regard to separate effects in mix mode. I opened up the manual & there it was in black & white - 1 effect per mix. I think it might be the sales guy who incorrectly agreed with me at the time of purchase. Originally I wanted to use the board in Mix mode allowing the piano sound to originate from the keyboard & use another board to drive other misc sounds. This would allow me to have piano on the QS-8 & I could horns, as an example, waiting to played by another board. But the sounds obviously won't sound as best as they could. So I just switch patches which is tricky & sometimes a I'm a little sloppy. Its still a great board. At the time of purchase, 88 note boards that didn't have much other sounds than EP, harpsicord, & strings, cost more than what then what I paid for the QS-8. Here we are 4 years later & the QS-8 is like buying a great sounding piano & for $200 extra dollars get a good sounding synth that goes along with it. Good job Dave.

[b_3guy]

One other thing. Do you have to use the Alesis Memory PCMIA card? There are warnings about using the cheaper cards that could damage the QS-8. The place where I bought my board wants $300 Canadian for it. The other memory cards are readily available for about $100. Thanks.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by b_3guy:

One other thing. Do you have to use the Alesis Memory PCMIA card? There are warnings about using the cheaper cards that could damage the QS-8. The place where I bought my board wants $300 Canadian for it. The other memory cards are readily available for about $100.

 

Any Type I card should do the trick. Alesis doesn't actually make one...I've never heard of these warnings - are they in the manual? If so, I'm guessing they probably have to do with the connector at the end of the card. Most of them are multi-pin, but some of then just have a simple silver contact strip, like a Roland M-256-D (for the D-50) - those would bend the pins. A Roland M-256-E should work fine, though.

 

Anyway, the short version is that any Type I PCMCIA SRAM card should work just fine - I even think it says that in the manual, if you need extra reassurance.

 

256k will get you four extra program and mix banks, 512k wil get you 8 more.

 

dB

[ksoper]

I'm still using the QS8 in concert situations. I've been contemplating the P80 because 1)I can get an endorsement deal and 2)I think the action is better. I wouldn't use the P80's sound set, though. I'm eyeing the Emu E4 Ultra XT. (Been using the Cokeley Perfect Piano sample in a local studio with marvellous results.)That might be a great combo. (I still take a QSR on fly dates.)

 

BUT...the QS is still a great choice for many reasons. I felt that it was a great bang-for-the-buck synth when it came out. I still do. Ray's Rhodes is the Rhodes patch of choice, but frankly, in the studio I use the Emu Rhodes. I do like the Bayou Piano, a Wurli-type thing, and I've created one of my own that I use quite often. I've played Clavs, never owned one, but use the RealClav and Clavitube for those brief, shining moments.

 

Since I do a lot of sessions, my criteria for patches is, "Will it cut tape?" The QS8 cuts tape. Many times I'll turn the effects off for engineers who prefer to add their own. The samples still sound good. In concert, our front-of-house engineer actually brightens up the True Piano preset to cut through the twangy guitars and fiddle.

 

Add to that the fact that you can burn your own samples to Flash RAM cards makes the QS a formidible keyboard, even by today's standards.

 

Speaking of which, I've been getting my SRAM (program) cards from Vikant. www.vikant.com for about $60. They work just fine. The Flash RAM cards that I had to buy from Alesis, because nobody supports Type I cards anymore, were expensive. Once Alesis sent me an AMD card. The last time they sent me a very generic (no writing on the face) card with the model number FAD-008M5W. I've seen this on the web before. Maybe y'all can find it cheaper than buying from Alesis.

 

What the hell, go buy one.

K.

[lovenara]

i got trinity later than QS

but i now develop sth on trinity programming

whileas never progress any on QS

Can anyone show me some examples on programming some useable patches on QS?

thnx

[Dave Bryce]

Can anyone show me some examples on programming some useable patches on QS?

 

I put up a few programming tips on the QS in the other thread on the QS series that Coyote posted...it's currently just a few threads below this one.

 

Also, there have been articles in both Keyboard magazine and Electronic Musician on programming the QS; plus, Alexander Publishing (now Alexander University) offers a "QS made easy" course.

 

http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/

 

dB