I think I need a PC (the horror!)

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I've been a huge Macintosh guy for many years. And, although the upcoming OSX scares the crap out of me in terms of how it will work with audio software and hardware, I plan on keeping a Mac in my studio and on my desk at work for a long time to come.

 

But for two things in particular -- Acid and Gigasampler -- I may need to stick a fast PC in my studio for the first time ever.

 

This is tantamount to a life-long liberal Democrat voting for Pat Buchanan. But I really dig these applications, and it may be worth working with a PC (gasp!) to get into the creative capabilities they'll provide. Is anyone else facing the dilemma of switching their hardware platform of choice just to get into a particular application?

 

- Jeff

[Marzzz]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

I've been a huge Macintosh guy for many years. But for two things in particular -- Acid and Gigasampler -- I may need to stick a fast PC in my studio for the first time ever.

 

Is anyone else facing the dilemma of switching their hardware platform of choice just to get into a particular application?

 

First and foremost, I play piano. Until the day comes when I can afford a 7' Steinway and a place to put it, I am stuck with an 88 key MIDI controller and a piano module. I am becoming more interested in GigaSampler, but I really can't stand 1) Wintel machines in general, and 2) ANOTHER computer, with ANOTHER monitor in my studio.

 

The Nemesys people state that using a PC (vs a Mac) is no different than using a sampler with its own OS. I have heard you can even set up a PC to boot right into the Gigsasampler program without having to see a trace of Windoze.

 

But I REALLY wish they would port the program to Mac, at the very least so that I could use my older Mac for GigaSampler while devoting a new one to Logic Audio. I am NOT getting rid of my Mac!

 

-Marshall

[Sergievsky]

Go to bitheadz.com and check out Unity and Phrazer, the mac equivalents of Acid and Gigasampler. You'll need a fairly quick mac but you get the added benefit of integration. My friend is extremely happy with his unity, though phrazer is so new I don't know how good it is.

I was an early buyer of Gigasampler, and I'll spare you the gory details. But it works now, and my advice would be if you go this route, get a pc from a vendor that sells it as a package, PC and Gigastudio, as well as the sound card. It'll save you a LOT of headaches. Might as well get Acid from them...and THAT'S IT. Don't install ANY OTHER SOFTWARE in the PC. Ok, maybe soundforge or wavelab. And there's something called Win98lite that takes out internet explorer and other unnecessary stuff. could be worth a look. Good luck.

 

Raul

[Marzzz]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Go to bitheadz.com and check out Unity and Phrazer, the mac equivalents of Acid and Gigasampler.

 

I was an early buyer of Gigasampler, if you go this route, get a pc from a vendor that sells it as a package, PC and Gigastudio, as well as the sound card.

Raul

 

How is Unity in comparison to GigaSampler. I am not aware that Unity can move large samples like GS?

 

Also, is it possible to run GigaSampler and output audio from a Laptop? Is there an Audiocard that will work in a Laptop?

 

Thanks-

 

-Marshall

[Sergievsky]

To move large samples with Unity you need large amounts of RAM because it uses that to store samples instead of hard disks like the Giga, that's the difference. Good thing RAM prices are dropping. But remeber that you still need a lot of RAM for Giga even though it uses hard disks. As far as laptops, I think the Wami stuff (not sure if that's really the company name) makes a USB interface for laptops...check out their ads in keyboard or EM I think. HTH

 

Raul

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

This is tantamount to a life-long liberal Democrat voting for Pat Buchanan. But I really dig these applications, and it may be worth working with a PC (gasp!) to get into the creative capabilities they'll provide. Is anyone else facing the dilemma of switching their hardware platform of choice just to get into a particular application?

- Jeff

 

What is it about you Mac guys? You come on like Roman Catholics! They're just machines, fer cryin out loud!

[Sergievsky]

Well, being a Mac guy and a Roman Catholic, I understand his expression and don't think he comes on at all like a Roman Catholic.

When your mac has been helping you for so many years to be creative quickly and efficiently, it's very intimidating to change because you just know it's going to add up to a lot of troubleshooting and downtime before you can get up to speed and not let the equipment get in the way of your music.

 

Anyway, Marzzz, Egosys was the company that makes the Wami.

Jeff good luck and let us know how it goes or if u need any other help.

 

Raul

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Well, being a Mac guy and a Roman Catholic, I understand his expression and don't think he comes on at all like a Roman Catholic.

Raul

 

Ok, sorry, I shouldn't have said that. Substitute "zealot" for "Roman Catholic".

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Yup...we definitely qualify as zealots.

 

I do want to try Phraser out...heard good things so far in its role as "Acid for Mac". I'm not as convinced that Unity will give me the same power as Gigasampler.

 

At least PCs are relatively inexpensive compared to their Mac cousins. But as a guy who primarily uses computers for music and graphic design (with some screwing around on web site building and associated stuff), the Mac has always been my friend.

 

- Jeff

[Guest]

Jeff, you're right not to be convinced that Unity is not equivalent to GigaSampler. I have tried both but use GS for sampling almost exclusively.

 

The huge advantage of GigaSampler/GigaStudio is that sound designers can

build instruments without being concerned with memory constraints. Anyone

who ever designed an instrument for RAM-based samplers knows that he has a

large potential customer base if the instrument will load in to, lets say

16MB, but fewer potential customers as RAM requirements increase. Hence

most sound designers go to great lengths to minimize the RAM required. This

results in a ton of compromises in the final instrument (looping, single

notes stretched across a range of notes, single velocity captured, nuances

are ignored, etc.). The single low A note on the Steinway-B for GigaSampler

is 16MB (total for all samples of that note). MANY RAM-based piano samples

try to capture the entire instrument in 16MB. So while Unity doesn't have the same memory limitations as hardware samplers, I also don't know of any sound designers creating 500MB+ Unity-specific samples.

 

RAM-based samplers use the same technology that has been around for ~20

years. Problem is that now that memory is increasing radically, so is load

time. Even if you could have 2GB RAM-based sampler, how long would it take

to load 2GB worth of samples? I don't know exactly, but it would be

significant (put it this way, you wouldn't be switching instruments in

between songs). It takes nine seconds to load the 1GB+ Steinway B into

GigaStudio on my system (GS loads only what it needs to play the note

smoothly). I frequently load in a couple dozen of my favorite basses so

that I can quickly audition them in a running sequence. GS is replacing

racks of hardware samplers in many studios. Many of the instruments that

are specifically designed for GS not only sound terrific, but have great

deal of depth in their programming. You can easily trigger nuances,

alternate fingerings, etc. They are multi-dimensional, unlike many RAM-based samples.

 

In my studio I run a Mac G4 and two PCs. Each system has its +/-. If you have the luxury of running both systems, it is the way to go. You're not limiting your music to technologies that are available on any particular OS. Even with companies that try to be cross-platform, it's rare that they produce software that's equal on both. IMHO, Digidesign, MOTU and Bitheadz make better Mac products than PC, while Native Instruments and Steinberg do the opposite. I don't have to wait a 6+ months to incorporate the latest technology just because it's not yet available on a particular platform.

http://www.purgatorycreek.com

[Anderton]

>>This is tantamount to a life-long liberal Democrat voting for Pat Buchanan. But I really dig these applications, and it may be worth working with a PC (gasp!) to get into the creative capabilities they'll provide. Is anyone else facing the dilemma of switching their hardware platform of choice just to get into a particular application?<<

 

I use both Mac and PC. The PC is not really difficult to figure out, especially with the newer operating systems (like 98SE). The interface is, shamelessly, very Mac-like.

 

I saw an interesting comparison over at Cubase.net. Someone likened the Mac to a Volvo -- safe, efficient, intelligently engineered -- and the PC to a Harley, which you can't resist souping up (and for music, you have to anyway).

 

The most important piece of advice: DON'T BUY A CHEAPO PC FROM AN OFFICE SUPPLY STORE. Even Dell, Gateway, HP -- avoid 'em. They weren't made for running music. Go to a local systems integrator and spend the extra $200 or so to get a system that uses standard, off the shelf parts, and is easily upgradeable. I particularly like the Q Performance computers out of Connecticut, they're designed specifically for music and mine has been incredibly well-behaved.

 

Nothing against the Mac, though!! People don't seem to have any problem owning two cars for different purposes, but they can't handle the idea of having two computers. Oh well. I think it's the only way to go, if you don't mind maintaining two operating systems.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I use both Mac and PC. The PC is not really difficult to figure out, especially with the newer operating systems (like 98SE). The interface is, shamelessly, very Mac-like.

[/b]

 

In another lifetime, I worked in an IS department, and am very familiar with PCs (all the way back to the DOS days). I've just never used one for music applications.

 

It's funny...in my "real" job as a creative director (a.k.a. marketing weasel), I deal with graphics quite a bit. I've never been able to stand the few occasions when I've been forced to run Photoshop, Illustrator or the like on a Wintel machine. I think this is because I am so intimately familiar with the Mac interface for those applications that everything just feels wrong on the other side.

 

I liken it to practicing the same tune for weeks on a Les Paul, only to find that you have to play a Strat at the session. It's not hard to do...the *feel* is just a lot different.

 

I think the saving grace here is that since I've never used these apps on the Mac, I have no basis for comparison. Therefore, running Giga or Acid shouldn't be too tough to get into. Also, Craig, I 100% agree with getting a machine that's specifically tricked out for audio, since that's all it'll be used for.

 

- Jeff

[Dave Bryce]

Yeah, even I have finally gone over the edge. I got a PC laptop last month. I'm not pleased...I'm not proud...

 

...but I'm psyched to play with Acid. The Gigasampler is definitely on the hit list as well.

 

I'm also thinking that it'll be cool to actually be able to try one or two of those endless walls of PC only games that I always see.

 

I'm still not really used to the thing, and it is definitely occasionally annoying the daylights out of me, but it's honestly not quite as bad as I thought it was going to be.

 

dB

[ssinitskikpmg.com]

Originally posted by Anderton:

>>This is tantamount to a life-long liberal Democrat voting for Pat Buchanan. But I really dig these applications, and it may be worth working with a PC (gasp!) to get into the creative capabilities they'll provide. Is anyone else facing the dilemma of switching their hardware platform of choice just to get into a particular application?<<

 

I use both Mac and PC. The PC is not really difficult to figure out, especially with the newer operating systems (like 98SE). The interface is, shamelessly, very Mac-like.

 

I saw an interesting comparison over at Cubase.net. Someone likened the Mac to a Volvo -- safe, efficient, intelligently engineered -- and the PC to a Harley, which you can't resist souping up (and for music, you have to anyway).

 

The most important piece of advice: DON'T BUY A CHEAPO PC FROM AN OFFICE SUPPLY STORE. Even Dell, Gateway, HP -- avoid 'em. They weren't made for running music. Go to a local systems integrator and spend the extra $200 or so to get a system that uses standard, off the shelf parts, and is easily upgradeable. I particularly like the Q Performance computers out of Connecticut, they're designed specifically for music and mine has been incredibly well-behaved.

 

Nothing against the Mac, though!! People don't seem to have any problem owning two cars for different purposes, but they can't handle the idea of having two computers. Oh well. I think it's the only way to go, if you don't mind maintaining two operating systems.

[Sergievsky]

Well, there you have it. Buy a PC for Xmas. Just make sure to follow Craig's suggestion and get one custom made for music. I'm thinking or putting mine in a rack casing.

You're in good position because you're not going to use it for all of your music needs. Just using Giga and Acid will keep it lean and mean, just like I have mine. (Although it's just soo tempting to put games in it..maybe one or two won't hurt...)

good luck

 

Raul

[Anderton]

BTW Acid runs very well under emulation in a Mac, for those who just can't stand the thought of using a PC. I think you may be stuck with the analog stereo I/O, though.

[Guest]

With this question in mind, I recently visited the three websites that advertise in EMusician. Only one, soundchaser.com, offers specific Giga setup computers, but it does have some cool configurations, using either 1, 2, or 4 rackspace cases. Unfortunately they seem to be a bit less knowledgeable about the components than real computing sites. But they do claim to test the system for stability and polyphony.

 

I just got a message back from a guy at wavedigital.com who said they are going to have a Giga page up next month. They have some very cool configurations in good-better-best-kickass type ranges. Their computing knowledge is impressive and it could be well worth the extra few hundred bucks you spend on one of their systems instead of a Dell or a neighborhood VAR. Audiocomputing.com's site is the most updated, computer spec-wise, but curiously their Sampler-computer uses the Creamware PowerSampler DSP Card (like a modern Samplecell) although Nemesys says Giga is compatible with that card, so it might be an interesting system afterall.

 

 

Anyway, in terms of buying a PC to use as an instrument, I think the best bet is to get it in a rack case and set up the monitor in a different area than your main system, treat it as an instrument, not a computer. Definitely use Win98 Lite and don't you dare put any games on the thing. You can have GS open as a Startup program - so you don't even have to know it's got a Microsoft OS, just go straight to what you need. Computers are great machines, they can do so much, but seriously, you all seem to have pretty darn good setups already. If you think you need a PC, just use it for what you absolutely can't do on your Mac, and try to forget that it's a Wintel machine at all. Think of it as a generic processor box for GS (or Acid). Then you can just use it for great sounds and get on with your life.

[ITGITC]

Yeah, even I have finally gone over the edge. I got a PC laptop last month. I'm not pleased...I'm not proud...

 

dB

 

A blast from the past.

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

Yeah, even I have finally gone over the edge. I got a PC laptop last month. I'm not pleased...I'm not proud...

 

dB

 

A blast from the past.

 

I had that computer for four, maybe five months. Hated it...

 

I do have a PC at work for QuickBooks, but all my other computers are Mac.

 

dB

[zephonic]

I run both Macs and Windows, and although I am of the opinion that Mac is vastly superior in every way, Windows is not unmanageable. You just have to install ONLY the apps you want to run, limit your online time to a minimum (what with viruses etc.), switch off all background apps and clean the registry regularly. And don't try to multi-task. If you do all that, it should run fine.

 

I know what you're gonna say next, don't bother, I know...

 

[SilverDragonSoun]

 

The most important piece of advice: DON'T BUY A CHEAPO PC FROM AN OFFICE SUPPLY STORE. Even Dell, Gateway, HP -- avoid 'em. They weren't made for running music. Go to a local systems integrator and spend the extra $200 or so to get a system that uses standard, off the shelf parts, and is easily upgradeable. I particularly like the Q Performance computers out of Connecticut, they're designed specifically for music and mine has been incredibly well-behaved.

 

 

Amen to that! This is the one thing I strongly emphasize to my customers getting into music and going the PC route. The crashes, glitches and other performance issues are significantly less and people who take the other route often are the one with the big headaches.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I never did buy that PC, either. That was seven years and three months ago, by the way. Geez, I was only 32. Where the hell did my life go?

[DanS]

My DAW is a pc, works great for me, however, my next home office machine will be a Mac, pas de question.

[Finale]

Real men use a HAL9000.

 

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL932/717679/2019740/108096145.jpg

[Geoff Grace]

I never did buy that PC, either. That was seven years and three months ago, by the way. Geez, I was only 32. Where the hell did my life go?

"Zoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! That was quick, do I get another? Sorry, Mate. Back to the world of dreams."

 

- Basil Fawlty

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[ErikH]

One of the main problems with a PC is memory.

 

Let's start with the assertion that you DO NOT want to use Vista. OK? Trust me on this. neither do you want to use 64 bit XP.

 

So, then, you're in 'normal' 32 bit XP Pro, with a functional 3G or so memory access limit unless you are a tweaker.

 

However, in a MAC you can up that pretty easily. For example, since 2005 or so, the better mac desktops could take 8G. You can get an older (used) power mac G5 dual processor and put 8G of RAM in it:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86414

Of course, everything later than than (including the G5 quad cores) will also take 8G of RAM. Some of them even have 8 DIMM slots, which means you can buy the increasingly-cheaper 1G chips if you want. And they're really not all that hard to find.

 

 

The more recent ones accept up to 32G.

 

If you want speed you need RAM. And the ability to use ram is something that XP, sadly, just doesn't have. Even Vista sucks at it.

 

 

Also, having used both...

 

If you plan to use a windows machine, AND if you plan to depend on it never to crash, you'll have to make a choice: Either find stability and stay there (for more on what i mean, see This Post)

 

OR

 

Be prepared to retweak your system whenever you add programs, subtract programs, etc etc. this will happen a lot.

 

While macs are certainly not crash free, they crash much less. They are also much easier to maintain, and to set up with decent security protocols. Depending on what your time is worth they can be more expensive or much cheaper, irrespective of the initial price difference.

 

I used PCS, then switched to Mac when I could. then i switched back to PCs because i had to, and i'm there now. i can't tell you how many more hours per year i spend on my desktop and my server that i would have been able to avoid with a mac. It's really amazing.

 

So, anyway... if you can afford it and if you don't mind running os X 10.4, look into a good used g5 and stuff it with memory. the difference between "in RAM" and "on disk" is MUCMH MUCH bigger than the difference between many processors.

[b_3guy]

I seem to be building a lot of web sites these days although my background is print. So I was thinking I should really get a windows machine since most web sites are built on a PC & viewed on a PC. I dropped into a store that sells Macs & PC's & the sales said why don't you just get one of the new Mac's with an Intel Duo 2 processor & run Parallels. Why didn't I think of that.

 

You don't have to go over to the Dark Side.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

When I wrote this (seven years and three months ago), that was not an option. Now my Mac is run on an Intel. I can do whatever I want.

[Geoff Grace]

I can do whatever I want.

Anarchist.

 

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Yoozer]

An 8 year old bump. You've outdone yourself, ITGITC .