Sergievsky Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 I just bullshitted my way through getting a gig, musical directing a show with an orchestra. Now, I've MD before, but with just 5piece sessionists. My previous experience with a full orchestra is writing several scores, with a how-to-arrange for orchestra book in one hand and a Sibelius manual in the other, and a short attempt at subbing for a late conductor. I don't have a lotta time left, maybe around three months. Whaddaya think? Possible? Or did I swallow more than I can chew? It's just that, you know, these opportunities don't come very often and I didn't want to pass it up. I just got a video and book from a friend on conducting (don't laugh), but any suggestions will help. FWIW, I'm not completely uneducated, 2 years at Northwestern Univ., Evanston, was all my family could afford, but I'm still relatively new as a musical director. Anyway, thanks in advance for your good and bad comments. Fire away. Raul Raul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorman Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 my, my - you have put yourself in quite a position there. the number one rule is "show no fear" or they will eat you alive (violinists are vicious!). whether you know what you are doing or not, ACT like you are in control and that you have a vision for the pieces you are ging to do. typically, a good conductor knows the music better than the musicians, and you will likely not be able to fulfill that, but to the best of your ability, you need to try and fool them into thinkning you do. the primary role you need to play is to decide on the way the music needs to be delivered - if this is a contemporary piece, and you have access to the composer, discuss it with him/her. if not, think about how you want to emphasize or de-emphasize the emotional content of the music with dynamics, accelerandos and decelerandos - this is the primary issue you need to work on during rehearsals. a good orchestra will largely "drive" itself, and it is the subtleties and the overall vision that you have some control over. you are the manager here, not their cohort - be as totally professional as you can in your appearance and demeanor - stand up straight and carry yourself with an air of control. do not exhibit any sign of your lack of experience or self-doubt, and do not make any self-deprecating jokes. good luck. jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 YES. It is possible. I'm gonna break the golden rule JNorman has just mentioned but confess I love to make self deprecating jokes regarding it ("how come this litthe sucker did that?"). However it is an incredible experience. And let me tell you I guess I have NOT even that basic musical training you have. However I have played and conducted an orchestra... and survived the experience with a smile. I have written (of course, with a friend of mine which is a real orchestra director) some arrangemente for orchestra for my -or others- new age pieces and directed them in some live performances. A total of 18 musicians. JNorman has just told you One of the secrets regarding ATTITUDE (many people say it's everything!)... a good start. Now I'm gonna tell you what a non professional musician has done to direct succesfully and orchestra, have fun and survive in a piece after it: 1) You have to KNOW the music you are conducting. Perfectly. If not sure how to play the Violin or French Horn, you have to know their possibilites and / or limitations to make the best use of the sonic pallete. It is like doing a live Mix... 2) The orchestra is gonna play YOUR vision of the piece. Keep that in mind. Musicians are just playing the instruments for you. Surely they know the piece already, but you have to tell them the pace, mood and how to do it to better express your vision of the piece. 3) Have fun. Make them your friends. I just don't agree with the fact of not telling the musicians you are not as prepared as a "formal" director. Since it is a team work, it has to have a leader and that is your role. I did it and the musicians were very comprehensive with me. "It's a dirty job but someone has to do it"... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Hope that helps... and you, the rest, stop laughing [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ [b]Gustavo G Lozada[/b] Moderador de: [url=http://www.musicplayer.com/nuestroforo]MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo[/url] [i] "La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"[/i] [url=http://www.mp3.com/trax_mx]GusTraX[/url] @yahoo.com Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus at Fender Musical Instruments Company Instagram: guslozada Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología www.guslozada.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Winer Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Raul, > I just bullshitted my way through getting a gig ... Whaddaya think? Possible? < I say Go for it. Here's all you need to know: [img]http://www.ethanwiner.com/conductr.jpg[/img] Seriously, if you want to expand into conducting you just gotta do it. If not now, when? I've played (cello) for a lot of conductors, and the ones I like the most are very clear with their gestures and leave nothing to the imagination. Don't be shy about telling the players what you want - as long as it's reasonable, of course! But be gentle and always be nice, and funny if you can manage that. If the players don't like you it will be no fun for you or them. And you probably won't get any further referrals either. --Ethan The acoustic treatment experts Ethan's Audio Expert Book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Listen to different versions of the material so you can draw your own conclusions on what you would do different. Obviously practice air conducting the piece by working on where you want your nuances. Try to anticipate which sections will require more work from you and the orchestra. Keep in mind that classical musicians NEED directions otherwise it can make them insecure. I would go easy on appearing too confident. These are real musicians and they'll call your bluff if you lay it on too thick. Anyway you HAVE the gig so be real and try to make the best music you can. You've got guts and I respect that. You deserve a shot! Emile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Hey Jerry Lewis did it!!!!!!! I don't know if you've ever looked at the conductors score sheet(s)....but it's a @#$%ing nightmare...definitely takes an abstract mind. I would have to memorize everything and have the score there just for security. I'd say go for it.......nothing ventured...nothing gained. Kick ass!!!! Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Frank Zappa did it too! It helped that it was his own music. Let us know how it goes! Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 C'mon, man, you have [i]everything[/i] you need to conduct an orchestra: [b]Your name ends with "-ievsky"![/b] [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergievsky Posted July 28, 2001 Author Share Posted July 28, 2001 Hehe, well, unfortunately my REAL name doesn't. But the good news is this is with a foreign orchestra on foreign soil (won't name it JUST in case one of YOU guys are in it! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif[/img]) so if I screw up majorly it won't be the complete end of my career. But I did have some experience with what jnorman said. The one time I subbed for the conductor (since I arranged the score I was nominated to start rehearsals) I had my typical Filipino overly humbled attitude and these mixed bag of mostly German musicians certainly did eat me alive. One of the few times being humble does NOT work. The biggest problem I had was hearing everything. I got overloaded with info and there were several times I could not hear the mistakes. Of course that was after a 24hour marathon finishing the score in time. The good news is I'll be able to study the scores (hopefully most of them) ahead of time so I can do the "air" thing. Hmmm. I just remembered I bought the score to Holst's "The Planets". Maybe I should start practicing with that. Oh, I forgot to mention, this whole show is really an accompaniment to a singer, a belter who puts Mariah Carey to shame. I'll be behind a piano a lot of the numbers so the comment about the orchestra "driving" itself should hold true, assuming I can rehearse them properly. I suppose THAT's what worries me the most. Rehearsing them properly. Thanks Ethan, that's hilarious! Raul Raul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 I don't know if you remember Robert Fulghum - the author made famous from a series of books including "Everything I Needed to Know in Life I Learned in Kindergarten". One of his big dreams in life was to conduct Beethoven's 9th symphony. He's not much more of a musician than a folk guitarist and singer, but he found himself conducting the speakers and living room couch whenever he put that piece on on Sunday mornings. He got his break (well after he became famous). The St. Paul Symphony Orchestra or someone like that hired him to do it. It took him about 6 months of preparation I think, but he did it, and succeeded, and did very well. Ergo, the answer is "yes", it can be done. I just don't know how to tell you how to do it. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Best of luck! Nika. For more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 Man, I'd (almost) kill for the opportunity to have an orhestra at my disposal.... I think though, a practical (seemingly silly) approach would be from a sequencer standpoint. I mean, the thing that ticks me off about sequencers are things you can tell a human to do in an instant that is probably impossible with technology at the moment (dansouth seems to have wrestled it down well, though). Things like "during this decrescendo de-emphasize the vibrato", or sectional grouping dynamics.... I assume you get to record a rehearsal? I assume you can run through the whole thing mentally as you want it to sound? Then it's just matching what they're doing to what you want to hear, and knowing the terminology and capability of what they're doing to... Ok, I guess it's not "exactly" simple. but... I'd like to give it a crack. I've read about those Russian orchestras you can "rent" for a few thousand dollars in almost an assembly line fashion... one day... I've wondered just how responsive a pro orchestra is to the conductor in reality, what that would feel like - sigh. Someone hurry up and get with the brain>24bit AES interface inventing! Ahg... ------------------ [b]New and Improved Music Soon:[/b] http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ape Man Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 You might also want to try hooking up with a conducting professor at your local college and take some private lessons. You could bring him/her the scores and go over them with a fine toothed comb. I like your chutzpah... there's no better way to learn than to just dive in. - Ape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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