GY Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 A "radio nut" friend of mine once told me that he went into a CB radio shop to purchase an antenna. They had a display for a product that was called antenna grease. The claim was that if you coated your antenna with this crap the antenna would emit more RF. The price was around $20 a small can. He said it was a large display and only 2 or 3 cans remained. Amazing! By the way, passing a digital signal through a cable (SPDIF).. the cable does NOT effect the response of digital signals. The cable is only passing ones and zeros. I can't tell if some of these people are kidding or serious! GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 I read somewhere that ole SRV himself hated the Monsters....saying something about it passing too many trons. But I have to agree that you can do just as good buying some decent Whirlwind guitar cords. Someone said earlier that monitors sounded better, yeah bigger guage does make a diff, but you might do as well with another brand of the same guage. High end audio components might benefit from monsters or the like....but you also have to recognize that some reveiwers are putting these things up for test using Spectrum Analyzers. It's kinda like buying shoes.....it doesn't take but one pair of Payless shoes wearing blisters on your feet before you buy some quality shoes. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olhhyperback.com Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 It doesn't affect the information passed but it can seriously affect the clock recovery which in turn can seriously affect the sound when you hang most D to A converters on the line to take a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Originally posted by TAZZ: I own 1 Monster cable (The $40 SPDIF cable). I can definitly hear more highs than the Hosa SPDIF model! (almost brittle at times!). Not that I doubt your findings, but since were dealing with digital audio here I am skeptical on how one cable would sound better since were just passing data over the wire. To me, it's like saying that when I back up my audio files onto X-brand CD that they sound much better then when I use Y-brand CD's. With data, either it gets across the wire or it doesn't. Sure, there are factors like jitter involved, but I can't imagine why the cable would affect the frequency response in a digital environment. Anyone care to elaborate on this phenomenon? -Dylan This message has been edited by Dylan Walters on 07-18-2001 at 12:01 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAZZ Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 I KNOW it sounds STUPID and it makes no sense to me either,(maybe the Hosa is defective, maybe jitter?) BUT I do hear a difference!!!!!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 My day job is as an electronics tech working on military contracts with large integrated systems. We see coaxial connections and light pipes for assemblies, but that is mostly for connections outside of the cabinets. Internally most are self contained units, with plug in modules, and/or printed wiring boards (older). Most digital electronics I have encountered are 5v and below, very little current. Unless you are talking the type of wire used to conduct, I can't see a huge diff in cables passing digital data. Though we do see gold (best conductor), but mostly copper. Small guages as well. RG59 coaxial cables are commonplace, but other guages and types are seen. In the audio world, until it becomes analog...which is how we hear it, I don't see how it'll make much difference, long as it's not defective. Some engineering guru might explain it better, but on my 20 plus years as a field engineer.....this is how I see it. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notape_dup1 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Originally posted by Dylan Walters: Not that I doubt your findings, but since were dealing with digital audio here I am skeptical on how one cable would sound better since were just passing data over the wire. To me, it's like saying that when I back up my audio files onto X-brand CD that they sound much better then when I use Y-brand CD's. With data, either it gets across the wire or it doesn't. Sure, there are factors like jitter involved, but I can't imagine why the cable would affect the frequency response in a digital environment. Anyone care to elaborate on this phenomenon? -Dylan This message has been edited by Dylan Walters on 07-18-2001 at 12:01 PM Stray capacitance or inductance in a cable can affect the slew rate of the signal. The difference would be at what point and time the converter decides wheather the signal is a 1 or a 0. Digital is very time dependent - everything has to happen at the right time, or else errors occur. -nt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone_dup1 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and really happy to have found out about it. I realize I'm getting in at what may be the tail end of this discussion, but I wanted to make a point about Monster vs. other cables. The first post was regarding cables for a live performance. I agree that paying over $100 for a cable is ludicrous. I have tried other types of cables in different price ranges for my guitar rig and I have heard a difference in tone quality. I use monster cables for a few reasons: 1. I like the sound of them. 2. I have had good luck with them and they haven't crapped out. 3. If they did, they come with a lifetime warrantee and I can trade them in for a new one at any time. 4. They're sturdy and I like that they fold and don't get tangled. I'm willing to spend $20 to $50 for a cable (the price point of Monster Performer 500 cables) that I will never have to buy again. Cables are not something to skimp on. It amazes me that someone would spend $1000 on a new peice of gear to use live or in the studio, and then demolish a strong signal with trashy cables. But any cable over $50 is out of my price range. Thanks http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Originally posted by strat0124: Though we do see gold (best conductor), but mostly copper. actually, silver is the best conductor. copper is also superior to gold. the reason gold is used for connectors is that it is least susceptible to oxidation, whereas copper oxidizes readily. gold is a fine conductor, especially compared to aluminum or solder, but it isn't the best. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Originally posted by synaes: gold is a fine conductor.... Leonard Bernstein was a great conductor also. Nika. For more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Oxidation is not a problem with sealed insulatated solid wire.....though to be honest, I've only seen gold contacts and/or slip rings. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 <> Gold is also an extremely malleable metal. That's why it's used to plate edge connector fingers in circuit boards: because it can kind of "smoodge" into place and make better contact. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_dup4 Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Monster Cable is very good but I use DiMarzio cables and have found them to have excellent signal integrity, sound and high frequency response. DiMarzio Braided cables are very durable with great shielding and the Switchcraft ends are definitely A+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvster Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 [Actually, it was Keyboard.] If anyone's interested it was the April '99 issue. We only tested 1/4" unbalanced cables, and only from a keyboard/recording perspective. Cable brands ranged from the most expensive Monster to Spectraflex to Hosa to Radio Shack. Tested sound quality (single-blind test if I remember correctly), shielding, durability, and "handling." Very basic summary: Listening tests were inconclusive -- some folks thought they could hear a difference, others couldn't -- and just for grins we tested the Monster stuff with "correct" polarity and reversed (nobody could hear any diff, of course). However, there was a noticeable range of hum rejection among cables -- high-end Monster was the best (along with Steve Vai and Spectraflex) and mid-range Monster was the worst (along with Hosa and Radio Shack). Go figure. My favorite part was the durability test, where we slammed cables in my truck door and tailgate, then ran over them. There were some cosmetic differences in how they held up, but all still worked! Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOracle Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Stray capacitance or inductance in a cable can affect the slew rate of the signal. The difference would be at what point and time the converter decides wheather the signal is a 1 or a 0. Digital is very time dependent - everything has to happen at the right time, or else errors occur. -nt This is true - but if slew rate (which affects the sampling threshold) and jitter were the problem, the result would be horrible distortion and clock drift and recovery problems, not a loss of frequency response. As Craig pointed out, capacitance is a factor with high impedance sources like guitar pickups. Capacitance is related to the length of the cable, the insulation material, the thickness of the insulation, the shielding and even the orientation of the cable (how it is coiled) and the surface area of the conductors. Larger conductors = greater surface area = greater parasitic capacitance. I personally think noise is a much bigger problem than any perceived loss of frequency response due to parasitic capacitance in the cables. Technically, I think shielded cables are only supposed to be grounded at the console/preamp end to eliminate potential ground loops so maybe this is where the directionality thing comes in. Because guitars and microphones are not grounded anyways (except when the player/singer touches a grounded object) this rarely makes any difference. Realistically, unless you are running cables from high impedance sources hundreds of feet (in which case you should really use a good direct box) I can't see how you could notice parasitic capacitance affects on audio cables. I think noise and (particularly in live sound situations) ground loops are a worse problem. Personally, I have not done listening tests of different audio cables because I know I won't be able to hear any difference. My ears are shot from 15 years of 120+ dBspl on-stage audio levels and no hearing protection(I got smarter with age, but the damage is done). My hearing sensitivity above about 12Khz is negligible. I am in no position therefore to say what you might or might not hear. Don. Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Winer Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 notape, > Stray capacitance or inductance in a cable can affect the slew rate of the signal. < Actually, cable capacitance has nothing to do with slew rate. Slew rate is when an amplifier's output current cannot keep pace with the demands of a high frequency signal at a high output level. When this happens the waveform becomes triangular, which of course creates distortion. Generally, cable capacitance simply rolls off high frequencies with no added distortion. I'm not trying to pick nits here http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif but it's important not to confuse these concepts and the terminology. In the context of digital audio passing through a wire with too much capacitance, you'd have to roll off the highs quite a bit before the receiving device can no longer detect the zero crossings. --Ethan The acoustic treatment experts Ethan's Audio Expert Book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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