Monster Cable - Worth the $$$?

Botch. · July 17, 2001

I'm wondering if anyone else has done listening tests of Monster vs. ordinary cable? I have and, as I expected, could not hear a difference. When you look at the fine wire that a speaker cone is wrapped with, I would expect the size of the cable feeding it wouldn't matter too much (the analogy I like to use is feeding water through a soda straw with either a garden hose or a fire hose; the straw is the limiting factor, but I admit I'm not an electrical engineer). I recently purchased Monster cables (the cheap ones) for my keyboards on stage. Up until now I've always made my own cables, but have had rotten luck lately with the insertable portion of the plug coming loose from the body (damn cheap Radio Shack stuff!). Then I see Monster sells special cables made just for guitar, bass, etc costing upwards of $150 for a 20' cord! Snake oil? Anyone think they're worth the money?

P.S. Thanks, Popmusic!

This message has been edited by botch@netutah.net on 07-17-2001 at 04:40 PM

Botch. · July 17, 2001

Should've proofread first: I meant putting WATER through a soda straw, not WIRE! How do we edit our own bumbled posts?

1k · July 17, 2001

Originally posted by botch@netutah.net:
Should've proofread first: I meant putting WATER through a soda straw, not WIRE! How do we edit our own bumbled posts?

Click on the little icon above your post with the pencil on paper -- that'll allow you to edit your post.

Bonafide · July 17, 2001

Hey Botch,

I have had the opportunity to have a studio full of Monster 'Studio Pro' cables, and Carvin Studio Cables, Guitar, mic and speaker. These babies are thick, like 12-14 guage, gold plated connectors etc. Now here is the deal. I happen work in the guitar biz and I got all of these cables for free, I personally wouldn't pay $150 for a guitar or mic cable. I can hear a difference though, but only in some applications, especially with the Guitar cables, no joke. Better amplifier harmonics are evident as well as response, same with the Mic cables.. BUT.. All of these great high end cables are put away, WHY? because they are so damn thick. It is no fun to pull one out and connect it to my amp because they hardly flex and they simply get in the way, These are really a drag with pro audio connections. I used to use the mic cables but my new mic has a 6 pin connector and came with it's own nice cable. Bottom line is they are too thick for practical use. I really mean that, They are cumbersome to me. Wanna buy a few Studio Pro Cables?

Cheers.

Dylan · July 17, 2001

I like the generic black cables that you find at most music stores. It's a big step up from Radio Shack, although, I use their video cable for S/PDIF transfers. IMHO, you shouldn't ever have to spend more than $20 per studio cable. It just isn't worth it. I think it was Electronic Musician who did a big article on comparing the quality of cables a few years back. They compared Radio Shack, Hosa, Monster, and some others. I think the conclusion was that they were all good and durable without any noticable differences in audio quality. Think about the technology involved in a cable (usually 2 or 3 wires) and ask yourself why Monster charges what it does.

-Dylan

GY · July 17, 2001

Do not waste your money on Monster Cable. Remember one thing... there is neglegable "skin effect" at audio frequencies unlike MC claims. Belden makes excellent cable, at a reasonable price and no BS hype! I installed it for years and use it exclusively in my own studio.

http://www.belden.com/

Conquest Sound also carries great products and are good people to do business with.

http://www.conquestsound.com/index.html

Notape_dup1 · July 17, 2001

Originally posted by botch@netutah.net:
I'm wondering if anyone else has done listening tests of Monster vs. ordinary cable? I have and, as I expected, could not hear a difference. When you look at the fine wire that a speaker cone is wrapped with, I would expect the size of the cable feeding it wouldn't matter too much (the analogy I like to use is feeding wire through a soda straw with either a garden hose or a fire hose; the straw is the limiting factor, but I admit I'm not an electrical engineer). I recently purchased Monster cables (the cheap ones) for my keyboards on stage. Up until now I've always made my own cables, but have had rotten luck lately with the insertable portion of the plug coming loose from the body (damn cheap Radio Shack stuff!). Then I see Monster sells special cables made just for guitar, bass, etc costing upwards of $150 for a 20' cord! Snake oil? Anyone think they're worth the money?

IMO, Your cables are only as good as the equipment pushing the signal through em. I wouldn't be caught dead paying $150 for a cable! that's just plain ol' crazy! Some of those esoteric cables have a very high capacitance which degrades the high frequency response (some call this phenomena 'warm sound'), especialy if you're driving the signal with high impedance devices. Marketing is a very powerful thing, companies who make these cables claim that the physical design of a cable affects it's coupling of electrical interference which is known to cause 'spectral contamination' in the signal chain. This is true - however, this can be avoided by practicing proper grounding and isolation.

GY is correct, physics always apply - audio cables are not RF transmission lines. MC implies that nano-second response is important, which it isn't at least (in an engineering sense) not important until your cable is in the thousands of feet in length.

Belden cable is a great choice for the studio. I use 8241 which has 17pf per foot capacitance and a low 2.6 milli-ohms per foot. This has a shield resistance of 14 guage wire, keeping common-impedance coupling(hum and buzz) to a minimum.

Regards,

-nt

Ethan Winer · July 17, 2001

GY,

> Do not waste your money on Monster Cable. Remember one thing... there is neglegable "skin effect" at audio frequencies unlike MC claims. <

Yeah, no fooling! What cracks me up the most is when cable makers claim their wire is designed to work in a preferred direction: this end goes to the guitar, and this end to the amp. It would be laughable except so many folks don't any better and waste their money on this nonsense.

--Ethan

miroslav · July 17, 2001

One place where I have heard a difference based on wire choice, is in my monitors. Now,...I'm not talking about Monster Cables or any other high priced hype...but rather in the choice of guage that I used.

I originally tried my monitors with thinner (16-18) guage speaker wire, and then swithed to a heavy 12 guage pure copper braid...definately heard a difference. The overall sound opened up with improved clarity while the slightly mushy low end became tighter.

Currently (no pun intented), I doubled-up that same heavy 12 guage copper braid because I shortened my original wire run. Now I have dual wires to each speaker. Maybe there is just a touch more improvement...don't feel like A/Bing...I had the wire so I used it.

Oh...all of my "heavy 12 guage pure copper braid" was purchased at Radio Shack...it was a few pennies/foot more than their generic "lamp cord' variety, but not anywhere near the Monster Cable nose-bleed prices! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

This message has been edited by miroslav on 07-17-2001 at 01:28 PM

Faeflora · July 17, 2001

MONSTER CABLES ARE ONE OF THE AUDIO "INDUSTRY"'S BIG RIPOFFS. DON'T BLOW YOUR CASH ON THIS OVERHYPED AND OVERMARKETED WIRE.

What that other guy said about capacitance is right. In some circumstances using big fat 2 inch wide electrical-power-line cable might sound right. You might even be able to buy it for gasp gasp gasp! $2000 an inch! WOW! But you could achieve the same effect or better with a "good" high pass filter.

Buy Mogami, Canare, Belden, ProCo. They all sound decent enough.

Maybe try out an esoteric cable on a GOOD mic BUT DO NOT BUY MONSTER CABLE!!!!

boBGudgel · July 18, 2001

>>Yeah, no fooling! What cracks me up the most is when cable makers claim >>their wire is designed to work in a preferred direction: this end goes to >>the guitar, and this end to the amp. It would be laughable except so many >>folks don't any better and waste their money on this nonsense.

>> --Ethan

Yes! The direction! You don't want your music to sound backwards!

boB

surfjunkie · July 18, 2001

wow.

i would never buy 'em because to monster cable all my gear would cost what i spent on my computer. i figure that's the same for most people, but i thought at least one person would say they swear by them and give noise %s. i thought monster cables were a lot better.

it even sounds like the answer might be the same if money were no object.

Anderton · July 18, 2001

<>

Actually, it was Keyboard.

I believe that quality cables make a big difference in CERTAIN applications:

- Passive pickups to high-impedance amp

- Digital and video lines

- Dynamic mics

- Speaker cables

But for most uses, where you're pushing several volts of signal through relatively low impedances, reactance, cable capacitance, and all those other niceties have a negligible effect. A bigger concern is how well the cable will hold up on stage after repeated flexing, and whether the cable capacitance is significant enough to affect high impedance sources/destinations (e.g., passive guitar to tube amp).

The idea of cable orientation always mystified me, too. I mean, do the electrons know which way they're going?!? The only thing I can see is that if your cable oxidizes internally and starts acting like a diode, and therefore picks up RF interference and rectifies it into audio, then if you reverse the cable maybe the effect will go away because the "diode" is now shunting to ground instead of being back-biased.

Oooops, my "Overly Esoteric Reply to Post" alarm just went off.

Notape_dup1 · July 18, 2001

Originally posted by Anderton:

The idea of cable orientation always mystified me, too. I mean, do the electrons know which way they're going?!? The only thing I can see is that if your cable oxidizes internally and starts acting like a diode, and therefore picks up RF interference and rectifies it into audio, then if you reverse the cable maybe the effect will go away because the "diode" is now shunting to ground instead of being back-biased.

Oooops, my "Overly Esoteric Reply to Post" alarm just went off.

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif WOW http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif That's one way of looking at it - but audio is, in fact an AC (alternating current) signal right? meaning the electrons travel both ways. Hypotheticaly if the cable acts like a diode, only 180 degrees of the waveform will pass through (kinda like a half-wave rectifier) or be clipped. Am I not correct? I'm no expert, but I call it how I see it. Any thoughts???

-nt

This message has been edited by notape on 07-17-2001 at 06:42 PM

Nika · July 18, 2001

Can I recommend some good reading on all of the topics above?? Cable orientation or "directionality", Monster vs. other brands, etc. See below.

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/001013.html

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001760.html

Bonafide · July 18, 2001

Something I forgot to mention..

Out of all of the cables that I got (About 8 Monster and 4 Carvin) 6 out of the 8 Monster cables needed resoldering within a week!!! No joke. The 16 and 14 guage cable is so thick, the solder job on the Standard connector is weak. The Strain reliefs are almost non-existent because they can get 'around' the cable. I would have thought that a company that makes cables that 'superior' would have better thought out the connectors. GeorgeL'cables are great,and they are thin as hell, super pliable, solderless connections. That is cool for stage, though you should have a backup.

Cheers.

halljams · July 18, 2001

Originally posted by Bonafide:
Something I forgot to mention..

Out of all of the cables that I got (About 8 Monster and 4 Carvin) 6 out of the 8 Monster cables needed resoldering within a week!!! No joke. The 16 and 14 guage cable is so thick, the solder job on the Standard connector is weak. The Strain reliefs are almost non-existent because they can get 'around' the cable. I would have thought that a company that makes cables that 'superior' would have better thought out the connectors. GeorgeL'cables are great,and they are thin as hell, super pliable, solderless connections. That is cool for stage, though you should have a backup.

Cheers.

halljams · July 18, 2001

I disagree completely with those who say monster cables are not worth the money.

I am a guitar player of 20 years experience and i can hear and feel a huge difference in how my guitar sounds between using say a belden cable and a monster cable. I also have a mogami cable which is good but not as good.

With each cable being 10ft long i have done tests on different amps and guitars as well as my regular rig and sound which i know very well.

I dunno how fussy some of you are about tone but if you are into blues and jazz and any pure organic(so to speak) electric guitar direct to amp tone, you should be able to tell the difference.

I can feel a difference in sound from just adding 5 feet of cable length to any 10 ft cord.I think most people could if they listen hard enough.

The monster cable reacts quicker and the high end is more precise and direct. The feeling of playing for a week with a monster cable connecting me to my amp and then returning to a regular (say beldon)cable is nothing short of depressing.

I am sorry for anyone who is not in touch enough with the sound of their instrument to hear the difference, but there is one.

Another point that i find humourous here, is, that with all the talk of 96 khz sampling rate vrs 48 etc and the minor differences in sound quality between this plug and that etc, if you consider the accumulative effect of using crappy cable like beldon in recrding each insrument, you are missing a much more important link in the chain to high quality signal.

No?

July 18, 2001

If I bought a Monster Cable I would be sure to believe I could hear the difference.

In psychological experiments they pay important attention to eliminating expectations.

When you can conduct or give reference to a blindfold experiment to prove that people can perceive a difference between cables then I'll respect you point of view.

Right now I think you don't want to believe you wasted your money on a Monster Cable.

Joe

GY · July 18, 2001

I like to think of it as the "Jim Jones Syndrome". They all line up to drink the cool aid!

Nika · July 18, 2001

Originally posted by jtegan@tiac.net:
Right now I think you don't want to believe you wasted your money on a Monster Cable.

Joe

I have been a part of a test like this and I could hear a difference.

Now grant you, we're talking about different things. A guitarist has a different need for a Monster cable than a recording engineer does. The test is also dependant on what you're comparing it to. Monster v. something else?

I assert that those who challenge there is no difference between cables have not done the types of accurate listening tests they are inviting us to do. I have not been accused yet of doing an unfair listening test in any regard.

Now, I'm not telling which I liked better, or what I compared it to, but there were hands down differences between cables, like it or not.

Read my post above if you desire more clarification on Monster and other brands of cables.

Nika.

Bonafide · July 18, 2001

Originally posted by halljams:
The monster cable reacts quicker and the high end is more precise and direct. The feeling of playing for a week with a monster cable connecting me to my amp and then returning to a regular (say beldon)cable is nothing short of depressing.
I am sorry for anyone who is not in touch enough with the sound of their instrument to hear the difference, but there is one.

Hey Halljams, I think if you read over a couple of the posts you will see that there is agreement that a cable like Monster cable does have it's uses and values to people, particularly with a guitar/amp combo. I mentioned myself that I could hear the difference. I think for the most part that the users of this forum, though players, refer to topics more along the lines of audio and recording. I think the topic of cables in general was reflecting this. Good cables like anything does make a difference, however how much of a difference to justify $100-$150 is the real question. BTW, if you really like the Monster Cables I do have some for sell, Monter Studio Pro, 20 ft. and collecting dust.

Cheers.

This message has been edited by Bonafide on 07-17-2001 at 10:14 PM

blas · July 18, 2001

I really like the Canare wire (double leads "603"), buy it at the local "electronic geeks" store (you know the type, two clicks above the Radio Shack guy), along with the connectors. Build my own to needed lenght and love it.

The part I HATE is soldering it together, I am the world worst at a clean looking job. I never would let anyone open up the XLR, I'm amazed it works.......sometimes they don't and back to the bench with it.

If anyone enjoys doing that part, I'll glad even trade material for quality work!!!!

Anderton · July 18, 2001

The best-sounding cables I EVER found for guitar I bought surplus for 50 cents each. They were originally made for some Mattel product and had the world's cheapest cable with the world's worst shielding. BUT the cable capacitance was unbelievably low because the shielding was so bad, and I swear I never truly heard the high end on my guitar until I used that cable with a 10 Megohm input impedance preamp! Of course, it's incredibly fragile, but it does sound good........

Anderton · July 18, 2001

My favorite A-B comparison story is of the engineer who when asked to bring up the level on something, would bring up the fader on a dummy channel. The person making the request would always say "Yeah, that's much better."

It's amazing how the ear/brain combination can play tricks on you.

alphajerk · July 18, 2001

i own monster cable. i even bought some short cables. i now have some monster mic cables, free, so i dont have buyers remorse offsetting my judgement when i hook em up.

i hear a big difference between say hosa [or whatever el cheapo] and monster [or any high end cable]. i have monster in my car and as soon as i put it in i was FLOORED by the difference. it doesnt necessarily have to be monster but a better quality.

the directionality is only for unbalanced cables and has to do with a floating ground on one end... if you reverse it... the theory of it doesnt apply.

July 18, 2001

Nika,

I am so skeptical about Monster Cables.

A valid test would be a double blind test. Researchers have known for years that the power of suggestion lies even in the tester. Unless the tester is also ignorant of what is being offered for comparison the test is invalid.

So unless you took part in a double blind test I remain skeptical and think the Monster Cables difference is one of suggestion. I would have to read the results of a valid double blind test to change my mind. I don't think one exists done by and independent agency, because if there was one that existed I bet we'd all know about it.

Joe

badfish · July 18, 2001

I could see using that high quality of cable for a studio setting but as far as a live performance or an instrument cable I dont see the point. You are already competing with equipment that is not perfect and has its oun genuine tone, and in a live setting you are competing with murphys law constantly. IMHO, save the money and buy the gear that warants it, and if its for an instrument...foget it, its just not worth it.

By the way I work for radio shack and their cables are just fine for moniters and studio conections but I would never use them for instruments because they cant handle the wear and tear.

EWF · July 18, 2001

It's great for everyone to post their opinion, but to try to tell someone else whether or not to buy a certain kind of cable just because YOU did or did not hear a difference is sort of pointless isn't it? 1) Cables CAN make a difference in sound primarily due to capacitance. 2) Oftentimes, however, you will NOT hear a difference. I think the best advice is to listen to your system with both types of cables. If you hear an improvement in sound quality (not just a difference, but an actual improvement), then buy it if the price is reasonable. If not, get the most affordable cable that has the desired durability.