Why are so many musicians politically left-leaning?

[dansouth]

Originally posted by rold:

I've personally experienced the effects of free trade and open borders. Canada can't deny the shipping of US toxic waste to be dumped here, we can't stop US-based multinationals clearcutting our rain forests and shipping the revenues back into the US, our local Mom and Pop stores are being kicked out by Walmarts, we can't ship our local potatoes in our own country without US approval, and our dollar has decreased in value 40% thanks to this. Shit man, we even have the DEA here fighting your drug war on our turf, paying off major coke dealers hundreds of thousands to narc out pot growers - this is an ugly fucking scene!

 

You see my point?

 

I see your point. And I've been reading up on the horrendous "rules" that the WTO is backing. Charging poor farmers for ground water - people who don't even have enough to eat. Forcing them to buy genetically altered seed that won't reproduce, so they have to purchase it again, year after year. This is global totalitarianism, and it has to be stopped at all costs.

 

On the other hand, don't blame WalMart for closing mom and pop stores. Blame your neighbors who go to WalMart to spend their money. WalMart thrives on their stupidity. Blame WalMart, McDonald's, and their ilk for something that IS their fault - slave wages and rampant underemployment.

[rold]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

I love to stir up trouble. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

In this case, I completely welcome it.. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Pesticide company? Pesticides are overused and probably the cause of a good number of serious health issues in humans and many other species. However, after having my house infested with fleas from a racoon who decided to live in my chimney last winter, I was willing to make an exception and bomb the house with RAID. I'm glad that the product exists. Applied carefully, it's a boon. Applied liberally, it's a curse. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

The more effective the product, the more likely it will be used extensively. What would happen if every household in NA were to be infested with fleas and RAID was the best solution? We would have no fish, no animals, our children would be dropping dead, and we'd be screwed. Wish the people making the chemical would realize that.

 

How about the use of the Agent Orange herbicide in the Colubian Drug War? Both the manufacturer and the Government know it's killing food crops, animals, making people seriously ill, throwing many, many people into poverty, yet they ouright REFUSE to talk about it, much less stop using it.

 

Drumming up support - I'm all for it, and I think that this thread has uncovered lots of issues that need to be addressed (although many others have not yet received mention). I was hoping to stir things up a bit, because the thread started sounding a little directionless. If you have these convictions and some energy, I hope you'll fight the good fight instead of grumbling on the sidelines, as I said. If you're already fighting the good fight, thanks for your efforts; I'm proud to know you.

 

Yeah, this thread did get a bit directionless didn't it? I guess when you call up a topic based on modern politics, all the downfalls of the issue come with it.

 

Liberals seem more willing to consider the merits of individual cases instead of making gross generalizations. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of "all corporations are evil" nonsense in this thread, so I guess that liberals have their foibles, too.

 

Experience will dictate reactions. My experience with corporations have been up and down, mostly down. In a mom and pop store, if you don't pay your bill over some discrepancy, you simply can't shop there anymore. With a corporation, regardless of the argument, it goes to collections and your credit is screwed. Even if they screwed you over for $30 - you have to go to court to fight it, which makes no sense because it's not worth it, so you either end up with court fees, or a bad credit. Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.

 

Nonetheless, not all corporations are totally evil. Even greenpeace is a corporation. Being a corporation makes total sense from a legal standpoint, it's how you conduct your business that will make the difference. Unfortunately financial gain is the most important thing across the globe now, and its agendas are more important than things like health and well-being.

 

 

Being stuck in the middle is interesting. I see the value of many conservative ideals (fiscal responsibility, profit motive, national defense, individual freedoms), but the conservatives consider me a leftist. I personally champion many liberal ideals (human rights, open borders, environmental protection, privacy), but liberals consider me an elitist at best, a fascist at worst.

 

Man, that Political Compass test did a tonne in pointing out how a two-dimensional system is not effective in addressing four dimensional views.

I'm pretty damn sure this is where the whole issue breaks apart.

 

I see everyone's point, and I see everyone's excesses. It's like watching Archie and Meathead bicker on All In The Family. You recognize that both of them have valid arguments and both of them are full of it at the same time. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Thing is, take the money issue out of the factor and you make the need for bullshit useless. This whole thing about the G8 revolves around issues where people are realizing that their love of freedom is more important to them than their wish to make some beaurocrat rich.

 

And freedom IS a huge part of it. Leave it up to the multinationals, and they would have everyone in debt for the rest of their lives the way mortgages have us by the balls for years. It makes more financial sense to them, meanwhile making the average Joe a complete slave of the system.

Don't work, lose your house and your livelihood. If you can't work, the welfare system will see to it that you prove that by living SO far below the poverty line it's not possible to stay alive.

 

And then if Walmart kicks all the mom and pop stores out of business and then jacks up the prices, who will you have to turn to? You can't afford Walmart anymore, and the alternatives no longer exist. Then you're screwed!

[rold]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

I see your point. And I've been reading up on the horrendous "rules" that the WTO is backing. Charging poor farmers for ground water - people who don't even have enough to eat. Forcing them to buy genetically altered seed that won't reproduce, so they have to purchase it again, year after year. This is global totalitarianism, and it has to be stopped at all costs..

 

TOTALLY agreed. I don't want to be a slave to anything anymore than the next guy, but I'm afraid we've already allowed them too much power.

 

On the other hand, don't blame WalMart for closing mom and pop stores. Blame your neighbors who go to WalMart to spend their money. WalMart thrives on their stupidity. Blame WalMart, McDonald's, and their ilk for something that IS their fault - slave wages and rampant underemployment.

 

What mom and pop store do you know that has the money to compete with the effectiveness of major corporate marketing?

 

One thing I learned in business school: marketing works.. Effective subconscious advertising will draw in ANYONE who's not paying attention to the words between the lines, the hidden messages.

 

Generation X'ers thought they were being rebellious in turning their backs on the corporate agenda, meanwhile they were wearing Nike shoes and buying records from DGC. Pepsi had a good laugh at that one with the Generation Next campaign.

 

You're totally right - the system does feed on the stupidity of the market. It makes sure we're distracted by paying off our lifelong debts and having no time to pay attention to what's going on in the background. If you don't see it it can't hurt you, right?

 

 

This message has been edited by rold on 07-27-2001 at 04:19 AM