Why are so many musicians politically left-leaning?

[Jim Aikin]

I agree that the labels "liberal" and "conservative" have gotten real mushy. Whatever his rhetoric, GW Bush is intent on ramming Big Government down our throats. If you think Big Government is a liberal plot (it isn't), you're bound to find Bush's positions a little confusing.

 

I've heard it said (and it makes sense to me) that while not all conservatives are stupid, most stupid people are conservative. If we posit that musicians are brighter than average, there's bound to be a statistical correlation between musicianship and left-leaning opinions.

 

There's also the question of emotional sensitivity. The besetting weakness of right-wing philosophy is that it tends to be rigid and authoritarian. (In the interest of equal time, let's acknowledge that the weakness of left-wing philosophy is that it tends to be real naive about human nature.) Musicians and other creative types tend not to be rigid thinkers, because you can't be rigid and creative at the same time. Ergo, they're more likely to be leftists.

 

--JA

[Scott from MA]

Originally posted by alphajerk:

on that test i am exactly in the middle of L/R and more towards the libertarian.

 

the things i support arent reflected in either party. i dont think we should have welfare or that my money should support those who are capable but unwilling to work but i also think that drugs and abortion should be legal. i dont believe in amassing weapons but i would be pretty paranoid sans military.

 

i voted for gore last election...

 

Now this is interesting: We got the same test results, and seem to have many of the same views, yet I wouldn't have voted for Gore in a million years!

[Dylan]

Originally posted by miroslav:

One thing to keep in mind alpha...Gore's wife Tipper (what the fuck kind of nickname is that anyway?), would have done just what you mentioned above!

 

Yes, this is why I didn't vote for Gore. Plus, I wanted to see Gore run after he left office with Clinton to see how he did on his own. I don't understand how a democrat like Gore and his wife could be such a nazi's about lyrics in music. Thanks to that beotch we have these stickers getting in the way of CD artwork with "explicit lyrics". Who decides what is "explicit" anyhow? Yes, Bush is a dumbass, but at least I don't have to worry about his wife trying to ban my favorite CD's. After Hillary, we need a break from evil women in the white house ;-).

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Scott from MA:

Now this is interesting: We got the same test results, and seem to have many of the same views, yet I wouldn't have voted for Gore in a million years!

 

DITTO http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Dylan Walters:

After Hillary, we need a break from evil women in the white house.

 

Hillary was a woman?

Wow...eight years and I never noticed.

[strat0124]

If Laura's daughter's are any indication, she is quite the vixen behind closed doors!!!!!!!! Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of the vision of a first lady baking cookies and reading at day care centers......

Hillary just scared the shit out of America's Patriarchs.......PUT THAT WOMAN BACK IN THE KITCHEN WHERE HER ASS BELONGS!!!!! Just kidding. : )

[miroslav]

Originally posted by strat0124:

If Laura's daughter's are any indication...

 

Young girls that like to have fun...nothing wrong with that? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

[alphajerk]

dont think of my vote as a vote for al gore, just NOT a vote for bush.

 

oddly, tipper has actually played on cd's from the zappa clan.

 

besides, the parental warning is voluntary and i wont put it on any of my cd's even if they contain offensive lyrics. i really havent seen the sticker on cds in years.

[CraigLeyhFrameBand.com]

What a lot of great opinions. I have no answer why artists seem

to be mostly left leaning, but i do see this. If you like

political talk try. www.freerepublic.com. All i can say is

I think actions speak louder words. Please watch and see

who is doing something and who just keeps talking.

 

 

Winston Churchill [ I think ]

 

"if you are not liberal when you are young you have no

heart. If you are not conservative when you get older

you have no brain"

 

 

 

 

------------------

Thank you,

Craig S. Leyh

CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com

Keep It Low!

[Guest]

Winston Churchill [ I think ]

"if you are not liberal when you are young you have no

heart. If you are not conservative when you get older

you have no brain"

 

Churchill was a deeply flawed human being who ended his career being politically rejected by the British people. I would suggest that physiologically, conservatism might be correlated to the diminishing of mental ability that goes along with getting older. So Churchill had it wrong. As you get older and your brain's ability to function decreases you get more conservative.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by popmusic:

I've seen it in real life; I've seen it on these forums... There seems to be a general connection between musicians and left-wing political views.

 

This is a vast generalization. I've known a lot of musicians, but I've never met anyone as radical as, say, John Lennon. I'll agree that I've met more liberals than conservatives, but there have been plenty on both sides of the fence.

 

To some degree, pop music post-1965 has been identified with radical, left-wing ideals, because those ideals were popular when rock 'n' roll was gaining wider acceptance.

 

The population of artists in all idioms (painters, directors, actors, authors, etc.) seem to be more left-leaning when taken as an aggregate. Attorneys, professors, and scientists tend toward liberalism, also. Doctors, financiers, tradesmen, and those in the military and law enforcement tend toward the right. Business owners are a rather unpredictable population. Why? Who knows?

[Eric Worthington]

I don't think it's so much that musicians and other artists are "left-leaning" or "liberal" or registered Democrats; it's that they are decidedly NOT Republicans or "ultra conservative."

 

A two-party system doesn't allow for much nuance in one's public political stance. You're either Left, Right, or a non-participant (in the simplistic sound-byte world of political discourse we live in). So if you come out strongly against Nixon, Reagan and Bush (which is pretty easy to do), then you are usually seen as Leftist. But maybe you're merely Someone Who Wants Nothing To Do With The Republicans.

 

When you consider that the Republican party has been historically supported by fundamentalist Christian groups, as well as Big Business (and the inevitable anti-environmental-legislation stance that goes with it), it isn't hard to see why so many musicians and artists are Anti-Republicans. They don't necessarily have the same ideology as Woody Guthrie, but they can relate to the man and his beliefs, in a way that they don't relate to people like Ted Nugent or Elvis Presley--let alone Jesse Helms or Newt Gingrich.

 

So you end up spending all your effort in trying to prevent someone like Reagan or Bush (or Bush) from getting elected. You barely have a prayer of getting your own non-mainstream preference in office. And then you're labeled "Left" for being Anti-Republican. Maybe you're more in the middle. Or maybe you're way farther out. Maybe you're out in the Lunatic Fringe.

 

Maybe the question should be: Why are so many musicians not supportive of the right-wing, conservative viewpoint?

 

I think that's pretty easy to answer. We have nothing in common.

[Anderton]

<>

 

Dude...this is Sound, Studio, and Stage...known worldwide for having the most civil discussions on the net. I'm not surprised at all by the tone of this discourse.

 

<< I've often wondered why many folks DON'T like to openly state who they are for or what "side" they are on...but prefer to "straddle the fence" or be vague about it.>>

 

That's because the labels are meaningless. Take environmentalism, for example. You'd think that a "conservative" would be for conservation. Having trees in the forest is kind of like having money in the bank, right? And that liberals, who profess to care about the poor, would be in favor of tearing forests down if it supplies more jobs and keeps the unions going. But that's not the way it is.

 

Clinton took a number of traditionally Republican policy stances. Barry Goldwater, though 100% conservative hardcore Republican, was totally tolerant about gays.

 

With me, it's all about issues: I'll vote for whoever comes closest to my positions on various subjects. I've voted for Democrats, I've voted for Republicans.

 

I suppose that I'm leftward-leaning in many ways, but I think a lot of liberal positions are just plain stupid. I think a lot of conservative positions are stupid as well. Both sides twist the facts to suit their needs, and both sides are pretty slimy and hypocritical when you get right down to it. So, why would I want to identify with either one?

[Anderton]

Hey! Maybe there are more left-leaning musicians because there's a greater percentage of left-handers among musicians than in the general population. Come to think of it, there's a greater percentage of left-handers among prisoners than the general population, too...

[Brian T]

As a conservative who generally votes Republican, I can tell you that there is often little slack given to "my type" by a good many in the music community. I have found a surprisingly small amount of open mindedness towards a differing viewpoint among those who lay claim to being "open" and "inclusive".

 

I've actually had to contact federal authorities regarding physical threats sent to my personal email by left leaning music types, simply for voicing my opinion in no more pugnacious language than I'm using here. In one particular case, someone posted his amazement that someone like Jesse Helms could continue to get reelected. I agreed and added Ted Kennedy to the list. That did it. Took a call to Federal authorities to get the guy to quit threatening me physically.

 

I think many modern music types fancy themselves as rebels, and the political left is generally percieved as the less conformist of the two primary parties. Outside of specific issues, that generalization probably explains much.

 

But really, since so great a percentage of my fellow music types are liberals, does being a consevative actually make me more of a rebel in a wry bit of irony?

 

Regards,

Brian T

[b3wiz]

I used to be a liberal. I still am, but not a political one. That's for damn sure. The political liberals are fighting everyday to take more control of my life and, while the conservatives say they want to give the control of my life back to me, they too, are politicians and they can't do anything without my money and without the minds of my kids. So, in reality, there is no difference between the two.

 

In utopia, we wish this wasn't true. We wish that some party out there really cared, but they don't.

 

Democrats make us believe they care about the environment and about racial inequality, etc. but if they actually fixed the problems they would lose their base. Hell, Clinton raised the speedlimit, took away fuel effeciency tax incentives, ended incentives for alternative energy resources and left decaying troubled inner city schools with no alternative to the mess that exists there. Doesn't sound like any kind of "caring" politician to me.

 

Not that I trust Bush, I really don't, but here he is left with the mess of trying to ensure that we all have enough energy on the short term to survive, while having to fight off everyone who is determined to stop him from doing anything but put up windmills as if that is really a short term solution.

 

As for conservatives being for big business, look at it this way, it's not so much that they are for big business as they are for free enterprise. The liberal politicians have done more to stifle free enterprise than conservatives ever have. I've spent my whole life in business and as I look back over a 28 year business history this is the way it has always been. It's just that the political cycle/economic cycle has always been such that the ones who did the bad get to blame it on the ones with good economic policies because of the time lag. ie: this current economic downturn began 2 years ago-not in January. The economic upswing began the year before billy took office.

 

Sure, there are a lot of big entertainment types who tow the liberal/democratic party line and intimidate everyone else coming into the industry. And so what does it matter to them? They already have their fortunes. And intimidate they do.

 

The way I look at it, I try to be a nice guy, I help those in my midst in need if I can, I am as nice to the earth and the atmosphere as I can be, am far more concerned with defending and helping the oppressed and afflicted than I am with defending the rights of some selfish, undisciplined fool who thinks they have their rights violated because they made decisions that brought them down and now want somebody else to fix it.

 

If we all staged our own little personal revolution and decided to solve our and the earth's problems on an individual level, the government and all the politicians would be rendered helpless and ineffective.

 

Hell, we can all dream can't we? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by miroslav:

Hillary was a woman?

Wow...eight years and I never noticed.

 

Ya know, I have never understood Hillary-bashing. Maybe somebody can explain it to me. This woman went to Washington and tried her best to get meaningful health care reform enacted. She stuck by her husband in spite of his being exposed (repeatedly) as a world class pussy hound. So why do people insist on demonizing her? Clue me in, please.

 

--JA

[Curve Dominant]

Since this thread has remained so civil, I'll join the discussion if y'all don't mind...

 

First off, it's very interesting to read through and see where everyone stands, not that I'm shocked or surprised to learn what I've learnt.

 

Instead of coming down on one side or the other, I would simply like to emphasize how important it is that, no matter what your views are, you remain politically active, and vote in every election.

 

I've consistently voted across party lines throughout my entire life, but one thing has remained a constant: every time I vote I get a great feeling from it. It makes me feel very patriotic and proud of our unique political system, no matter how flawed it may be. It feels good to participate in democracy.

 

I've also been politically active since long before I was old enough to vote, and have worked on some campaigns, and I strongly encourage everyone to try to make some time to do the same. You meet people, make connections, learn about the process and the candidates, and get a feel for why things are the way they are. You can always feel like you at least did something besides sit on your ass and complain if you don't like the way things are.

 

There are congressional mid-term elections next year, and both Houses are very closely divided. So if you have a beef, now's the time to find out who your local candidates are and what they stand for, and get behind the ones you like. Even if it's just telling folks you know that "Congresswoman ***** is up for re-election, so please remember to register to vote because she's done good things for our district," THAT's political activism.

 

Just my $0.02US.

 

E

[B3Nut]

gbtank@home.com mused:

But really, since so great a percentage of my fellow music types are liberals, does being a consevative actually make me more of a rebel in a wry bit of irony?

 

Hehehe, yup! I kinda feel the same way, being conservative myself and a Christian musician of a more or less Reformed/baptistic theological persuasion. For all the talk about open-mindedness coming from many on the left, they sure go all-out to try and silence anyone who dissents from their view. How can there be rational debate when that happens? There can't be. I don't mind someone disagreeing with me, but I do mind being yelled at and branded with labels, which is imho a cheap and cowardly way to avoid rational argument. I mean, I don't bite fercryinoutloud http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

But I will take issue with Mr. Aikin's assertion that conservatism per se is correlatable with stupidity. I wouldn't assert that liberalism could be linked to stupidity....the proposition is preposterous either way. Statements like that are intrinsically problematic, and achieve nothing in the way of reasoned debate or discussion.

 

Have fun! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Todd A. Phipps and his silly dawgs Obie and Honey, face-slurping pit bulls extrordinaire

[-]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

This is a vast generalization. I've known a lot of musicians, but I've never met anyone as radical as, say, John Lennon. I'll agree that I've met more liberals than conservatives, but there have been plenty on both sides of the fence.

 

Yeah, it was a generalization, which, based on the responses so far, appears to be almost unfair since there appear to be pretty much an equal number of left-wing and right-wing viewpoints. (Actually, it appears there's maybe more right-wingish viewpoints, but I'm not really keeping score...)

 

However, I don't think the responses on this thread are necessarily representative of real life. I don't remember where I read the article, but there was a study done which claimed that there is a larger percentage of conservative/libertarian-type viewpoints on the web than in real life, mainly because the people who are on the web stereotypically have more financial resources, education, access to the web, etc... It kind of lends itself to certain political viewpoints, I guess.

 

On a totally unrelated subject... Wow, Jim Aikin is on this thread!!! Jim, I used to read your articles when I subscribed to Keyboard magazine for a number of years. Just thought you might find it interesting to know that the album reviews you used to do (maybe still do?) for Keyboard got me hooked on a lot of new music at the time. OK, I'll stop my gushing... Just thought you'd appreciate to know that your writing influenced someone out there. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[JES]

Hi Folks,

 

Great thread, especially since people wind up talking politics here so much. I have a few thoughts on the matter:

 

1. People aren't real clear on what they mean by left/right. For instance, both positions advocate government intervention in some aspects of civil society, and both have their libertarian streaks. A libertarian position tends toward the left on issues traditionally considered "civil liberties" such as drug use, censorship, equal rights, etc., but toward the right on economic issues like taxes, government intervention in markets, and federal subsidies for education and infrastructure. So some people may describe themselves as "left" because they are thinking in terms of civil liberties issues, but actually fall closer to the right on some economic issues, or vice-versa (actually a lot of activist leftist are fairly socially conservative but interested in economic democracy -- or, to take another spin on it, look at what happened when rockers first started showing up to the Michigan womyn's music festival. A bunch of feminists took a very culturally conservative line about what counts as appropriate music and the riot grrls had some educating to do).

 

2. I think musicians overall are not terribly left anymore. Maybe they were at some point, I don't know. But I think that while they are left on selective issues (support for the arts, free speech, etc.), they are not particularly politicized on lots of other issues that nonmusician leftists care about. They're more like "cultural" leftists if they're left at all.

 

3. I think that there are more left people in the U.S. than is generally acknowledged, but with no left party, no well known left media outlet (outside alternative press like The Nation, etc.) and no broadcast time on mainstream news, we have what media theorists call a "spiral of silence" -- where people don't hear about it, so they assume that nobody's thinking about it. The converse is true, and those of us who aren't fans of pop music know this -- just because you hear a tune a gazillion times on the radio doesn't mean that lots of people like it or that it's the best thing out there. But people think that radio airplay is based on voting or something. Arbitron ratings don't work like that.

 

3. Coming out time: I'm left, and when I say left I don't mean the democrats, who are largely pro-corporate, antienvironmental (look at Al Gore's record instead of his book), and have routinely sold out their supposedly left constituents. I'm a democratic socialist. Since people seem to have pretty preconceived notions of what that is, let me explain, at least off the top of my head:

 

I believe everyone has the right to a living wage no matter what they do.

 

I believe that markets are better for some things than others. Markets do not care for people -- not even Adam Smith and the other fathers of free market philosophy truly believed this. Market based solutions always mean that someone has to prioritize profit over whatever other activity they undertake, and sometimes profit is not the most important thing.

 

I believe socialism is a system where people are more important than markets. But socialism can only work in a democracy, all the supposedly communist countries are authoritarian: in an authoritarian system, it doesn't matter what kind of economy you have, because ultimately, you have no freedoms.

 

I believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with a democratically elected government working on behalf of the public, administering programs to care for people or to improve society.

 

I believe that most people don't realize how dependent upon government handouts they really are: most Americans like the cheap prices they pay for gas, the interstate system, and private ownership of homes -- all things that are subsidized by the government. All welfare for the middle and upper classes.

 

I believe in people's right to pursue their life's dreams regardless of where they start out. I believe that it is our obligation to help people pursue their dreams, whether we know them or not, whether we like them or not.

 

I believe that every person has a responsibility to the entire society and the entire world in which she or he lives.

 

I believe unfettered greed is the greatest sin because it leads to all the others.

 

I believe that corporations should be taxed like people.

 

The statement that "socialism won't work" is a copout because for the majority of people living in the world today, capitalism doesn't work either. It's on us to build a humane and livable world for everyone.

 

I'm also a feminist and a bunch of other stuff, but that's for another time.

 

Best,

--JES

 

want to read some left analysis of culture and politics? Check out

Bad Subjects at http://eserver.org/bs

Left Business Observer at http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html

The Nation at http://www.thenation.com

 

Sorry for the long post, but I guess if you read this far, you thought it was worth it.

[Tedster]

Left leg shorter than the right???

 

This message has been edited by Tedster on 07-17-2001 at 10:39 PM

[JES]

Forgot to say one other thing about politics here -- that it has little to do with what kind of person you are interpersonally. Some of the people I've worked with on causes have been total assholes, while people who hold completely different views from me on big political and philosophical issues have been immensely helpful and generous. This is especially true on these boards, where people seem to be helpful or belligerent regardless of their political orientations.

 

--JES

[Nika]

Back to the beginning: Why is it that musicians tend to be left more than right?

 

I, for one, am willing to accept this statement as true whereas others may debate it. It's not to say that ALL musicians are left, but artists of every form tend to reside more left, whether dancers, photographers, actors, visual artists, interior decorators, poets, authors, or others.

 

My belief is that it is a liberal household that is more likely to raise a potential musician. Most households will find merit in exposing their childrent to the arts, but it is the liberal households that are more likely to provide an environment that is conducive to a person cherishing the arts enough to make a profession or a serious hobby of it.

 

Having said that, we tend to take political views from our parents. With that in mind, it is no surprise that the liberal household not only raises the musician, but also the liberal child. This seems fairly obvious to me.

 

As for the political test, see where Ghandi is? I'm not too far from there. If you drew a line from Democrat to Liberatarian I'm right in the middle of that line. I polled my wife. She's only a few squares away from me. Note that she's more of a professional artist than I am.

 

And never had a drug, never spanked my child, never had alcohol, never hit the "r" button on the ballot. The first three I endorse.

 

 

Nika.

[-]

Originally posted by Tedster:

Left leg shorter than the right???

 

Are you sure that isn't you, d gauss?!?!? That was a classic d gauss-sounding comment if there ever was one... ROTFL... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

This message has been edited by popmusic on 07-17-2001 at 11:14 PM

[Tedster]

Originally posted by jtegan@tiac.net:

Winston Churchill [ I think ]

"if you are not liberal when you are young you have no

heart. If you are not conservative when you get older

you have no brain"

 

I love that quote, and I disagree with your assessment. I think that he was referring to a possibility that as one ages oftentimes one sees things with less impetuous rashness that a younger person may have.

 

Churchill did assess validity to liberalism in that quote. In reality there must be a balance. Anything taken to either extreme will cause problems. Which is more important, having a heart (compassion) or a brain (rationality or wisdom)? Tin Man or Scarecrow? Youth or age? Either without the other is useless.

 

(Sings): 'f I, werrre King, of the fore-e-e-e-e-e-est!

 

Maybe L. Frank Baum wasn't so childish after all...

[Anderton]

<>

 

But those on the right also try to silent anyone who dissents from their view. It's human, not political, nature. Also, people talk about the "right" and the "left" as monolithic blocks. Every "right" person worships Russ Limbaugh, every "left" person is a combination of Hillary Clinton and Jesse Jackson. The REAL close-mindedness is in stereotyping, and I truly believe both ends of the political spectrum are guilty of this in a major way.

[Anderton]

<>

 

The right, of course, claims that the media is biased in favor of the left. The fringes claim it's run by Zionists. The left says that the media is overwhelmingly conservative.

 

Personally, I think the media is in business to make money, and has the political conscience of a ferret.

[rold]

I don't think the Republican and Democrat parties are truly representative of our political opinions. I don't find either parties very right wing or left wing as the lines between the parties blur so much. You see the Clintons and Gores fighting for big business and the Bushes declaring old growth trees as national monuments, PR campaigns notwithstanding. Great example: Clinton steps up the war on pot, imprisons 5 million people during his stay, and then "decides" maybe pot should be legalized when he's done his term.

 

I personally think big business is almost fully responsible for the aforementioned blur; what high-ranking politician achieved their position without big business "campaign donations" and backroom pocket lining? I really doubt there is any free-acting high-level politician out there.

 

Thus, http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/cwm/cwm/piss2.gif Big Business

 

Harold http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

BTW - that graph put me at 90% libertarian and 90% left, if anyone's counting.. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Guest]

quote:

Winston Churchill [ I think ]

"if you are not liberal when you are young you have no heart. If you are not conservative when youget older you have no brain"

 

Tedster wrote:

I love that quote, and I disagree with your assessment. I think that he was referring to a possibility that as one ages oftentimes one sees things with less impetuous rashness that a younger person may have.

 

It's a maxim designed to undermine his political opponents and bolster his own personal opinion. Within this maxim Churchill makes a silly assumption - that liberalism is the result of some kind of unthinking idealism. Maybe some people come to their beliefs in an impetuous fashion, but they could be Christians, conservatives, Nazis or Communists, besides liberals. The quotation is offensive because rather than confront the specifics of political issues, it begs a question about the maturity of those people holding different opinions. I've been self described liberal for some 35 years. I'm no less liberal now than when I was 17, I'm a lot more mature and I got a lot more reasons and experience to justify my liberal point of view.

 

My personal perspective is that people grow conservative not because of increased wisdom or experience but because conservatism offers answers that seem more cogent in their simplicity. Cogency isn'ts the wame as truth and though simplicity might be a virtue life isn't always simple. As Bob Dylan so rightly summed the conservative dilemma, "Something is happening here and you don't know what it is. Do you Mr. Jones"?

 

Joe