Radio Access for Indie Artists

[Jim Aikin]

Hey, folks--

 

Got a general research-type question here. Hoping to get some feedback that will help focus a project I'm working on. Here's the question:

 

What experiences (good, bad, or hilarious) have you had getting independently produced music tracks played on the radio stations in your own geographical area?

 

My guess, which could be wrong, is that local musicians are very much marginalized when it comes to getting airplay. My guess is that the more successful stations in any radio market won't play local music at all -- unless we broaden the term "local music" to include major-label releases by big-name touring artists who happen to live in the local area.

 

My guess is that there may be some (limited) access to the airwaves for local musicians via the lower-power and less successful stations. Even at these stations, though, I'd bet local musicians often find themselves competing for attention with high-powered out-of-town publicists who are trying to break new national acts.

 

Am I too cynical? Or is the reality even worse than I imagine?

 

A secondary question: Does anyone know of resources on the web where radio playlists and demographics are readily available?

 

The only ground rule I'd like to suggest for this discussion is that I'd like to hear about your success (or lack of it) with well-produced CD tracks in recognized genres -- rock, lite jazz, etc. I'm less concerned about mp3s.

 

--Jim A.

[Scott from MA]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

My guess is that the more successful stations in any radio market won't play local music at all

 

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but most of the major stations here in the Boston/Providence market (WBCN, WAAF, WBRU, etc.) have weekly shows dedicated to local music. While it is true that the stations rarely (if ever) include local bands in their regular daily rotation, the weekly features offer bands a fair amount of exposure, and I have found some of these stations to be VERY supportive of local talent.

 

 

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Scott

(Massachusetts' only Athiest Republican)

[Hippie]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

Hey, folks--

 

Got a general research-type question here. Hoping to get some feedback that will help focus a project I'm working on. Here's the question:

 

What experiences (good, bad, or hilarious) have you had getting independently produced music tracks played on the radio stations in your own geographical area?

 

My guess, which could be wrong, is that local musicians are very much marginalized when it comes to getting airplay. My guess is that the more successful stations in any radio market won't play local music at all -- unless we broaden the term "local music" to include major-label releases by big-name touring artists who happen to live in the local area.

 

My guess is that there may be some (limited) access to the airwaves for local musicians via the lower-power and less successful stations. Even at these stations, though, I'd bet local musicians often find themselves competing for attention with high-powered out-of-town publicists who are trying to break new national acts.

 

Am I too cynical? Or is the reality even worse than I imagine?

 

A secondary question: Does anyone know of resources on the web where radio playlists and demographics are readily available?

 

The only ground rule I'd like to suggest for this discussion is that I'd like to hear about your success (or lack of it) with well-produced CD tracks in recognized genres -- rock, lite jazz, etc. I'm less concerned about mp3s.

 

--Jim A.

 

I've submitted about 10 semi-pro tracks to local rock stations, that at one time or another, have ran "home grown talent" programs. These programs are usually set up as a "shoot-out" between the participating local talent of usually about 3 different bands for a one-half hour show, where they'll play all 3 songs, and callers basically "vote" on their favorite of the 3. My band has actually "won" one of these, once. What we actually won was, well nothing. -No further airplay, no "come on down and do this gig for the station", nothing but a mention in the following weeks program that said "we won last week". -Big deal!

 

I sometimes think these programs are produced to allow the stations to claim they are "supporters of the local music scene", which carries some sort of "hip image" to their listeners. -hypocrites!

 

I think the stations' lack of follow up, in playing the "winning" locals talent, is a matter of numbers & money grubbing. -The chance of losing radio station listeners by playing unfamiliar material is greater than playing the old trusty hits. -But, I believe if a station is really comitted to becoming cutting-edge, and can truly be considered "hip" by its listeners, they have to take the financial hits while "building their cool". And a sure way to build a cutting-edge, hip & cool station with dedicated followers, is to keep the material fresh and new. -local talent is as good a resource as any, plus it helps the local community. It seems most rock & pop radio stations these days get their music programming lists from Billboard mags. top 20, and "screw all the rest".

 

The reason for my negative rant is because I can remember the days when local radio, (Detroit), played local & non-local lesser know acts that eventually went on to national success due to the support of local radio stations. Bob Seeger, Iggy Pop, Grand Funk, Ted Nugent, The MC5, The Rockets, J.Geils, Aerosmith, to name a few. Radio needs to get back to these talent cultivating methods, because it was these methods that built the broad rock spectrum, we know and love, that seems to be getting more narrow everyday.

All the great rock radio DJ's, from the past, have always played the good rock-n-roll music that no one, in their time, had the balls to play. Wolfman Jack, Allen Freed, Murray the K., for example. As long as radio stations keep on "playing it safe" with the profit margin and the "bottom line" as their only motivation, things will only get worse.

 

-Hippie

[Scott from MA]

Originally posted by Hippie:

These programs are usually set up as a "shoot-out" between the participating local talent of usually about 3 different bands for a one-half hour show, where they'll play all 3 songs, and callers basically "vote" on their favorite of the 3.

 

That's pretty lame! None of the shows around here are set up that way. Here the shows are 1 or 2 hours long, and they will play as many bands as they can sqeeze into the time. There's no contest, no voting, no "winning" anything. It's simply, "Here's a song by Band-X, and you can see them next Friday at Joe's Tavern."

[Scott from MA]

Originally posted by Hippie:

All the great rock radio DJ's, from the past, have always played the good rock-n-roll music that no one, in their time, had the balls to play. Wolfman Jack, Allen Freed, Murray the K., for example.

 

Not to get off topic, but didn't all these "radio heros" get rich playing the music of whoever gave them the most money? Doesn't sound very ballsy to me!

[Anderton]

Many local stations are just playing satellite feeds from somewhere else anyway. There aren't even people playing the music, so you can't really knock on the door and ask that a single be played.

 

Of course there are stations that will play local talent, some even welcome it. But I suspect a lot of them are going to be bought out eventually anyway.

[robsmusic]

The local DJ is rapidly being replaced by syndicated programming. One of the biggest companies that does this is Clear Channel (www.clearchannel.com).They own countless radio stations and concert venues. Here in Philadelphia,PA ,they own 5 or 6 stations including the smooth jazz station and 2 r&b stations ( that were once avid suporters of local talent). They also own or operate 2 or 3 of the local concert venues. On their website, you can search for their holdings .You might be surprised by what you find.

 

 

Rob

 

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R. Guilford Butts

www.mp3.com/robsmusic

 

"Your talent is God's gift to you. What you do with it is your gift back to God"......Leo Buscaglia

[D. Gauss]

<>

 

"the boston gig has been cancelled, but don't worry.. Boston's not a big college town..." -spinal tap

 

 

-d. gauss

[rold]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

Hey, folks--

 

What experiences (good, bad, or hilarious) have you had getting independently produced music tracks played on the radio stations in your own geographical area?

 

--Jim A.

 

Pretty good..two of the tracks I did manage plugging were done so by presenting the music to the MD first hand. It was a major market station, so they did handle most of their playlists at the time, and he had them spun during the weekly indie hour.

 

The smaller markets subscribe to some sort of syndicated service (I think it's called The WIC Radio Network), so with them access comes a little harder. However, as a concert promoter I did manage getting tracks plugged late night with them as well, going through the host.

 

I know for a fact in Canada access to radio comes a lot easier, and cheaper, than in the US. It seems more indie to some degree, but mind you even the college stations here have been getting their fair share of corporate influence as well.

 

Hope that helps.. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Harold

 

PS...you're not the same J.A. that edited "moses'" book are you? Damn good book!

[Scott from MA]

Originally posted by d gauss:

<>

 

"the boston gig has been cancelled, but don't worry.. Boston's not a big college town..." -spinal tap

 

 

-d. gauss

 

HA HA! I always loved that line, and wondered how many people missed the irony.

 

I can't believe that, in my late-night haze, I included WBRU in my list of "major" stations. Anyone from the area can feel free to laugh at me now! WBRU is not much more than a glorified college station. They are, though, my favorite station in this area, and are the most supportive of local talent.

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by rold:

PS...you're not the same J.A. that edited "moses'" book are you? Damn good book!

 

Yeah, that was me. When I read the manuscript I felt it was absolutely something musicians should have a chance to read -- that's why I signed on to edit it. The author and I ended up getting on one another's nerves a bit, but I think the results were worth the trouble, and I hope he does too!

 

--JA

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by robsmusic:

The local DJ is rapidly being replaced by syndicated programming. One of the biggest companies that does this is Clear Channel (www.clearchannel.com).They own countless radio stations and concert venues.

 

What I'd really like to learn is how Clear Channel and other networks structure their playlists and programming. I'd love to see statistical breakdowns, for instance, of exactly what bands/songs/labels are played during a 3-month period on a large station like KSJO or KMEL. Does anybody know where such data might be found on the Web? I don't think the FCC has it.

 

Where stations have weekly slots for local bands, have people found those slots effective for exposure, or not? Also, what about stations in other genres besides rock? Do R&B stations in your area have slots for local rappers? What about easy listening? I'm assuming an oldies station (by which we might mean '50s/'60s or '70s/'80s) wouldn't showcase local artists, but I could be wrong.

 

--JA

[Tim Walters]

Here in the SF Bay Area, the college stations are quite receptive to local music, at least of the non-mainstream sort. I've had my CDs played on KFJC, KZSU, and KALX, and done live-at-the-station gigs at the first two.

[KJ]

Hey Scott, I'm in the Boston market and was wondering when 'BRU went major! I'm sure you meant to include WHJY out of Providence on your list. The college stations in Boston are all big boosters of the local scene, WBRS out of Brandeis used to do weekly broadcasts of bands from the stairwell in front of their studio. Horrible accoustics, but we were playing live on the air! WBCN back in the '80's was really big in pushing the local indie scene, but now seem to be following instead of leading. WAAF (for better or for worse) is the main reason that Godsmack got a major deal. From my personal experiences, other than the aforementioned Brandeis gig, a blues band I was in got some airplay on a local station because a couple of the members met up with the Sunday night blues show host and gave her a tape. She even had the guitarist in the studio for an impromptu interview as she played two songs off the tape. I made it on the radio! It was like, OK all of my dreams are filled now, I can die!

 

I think a lot of how much exposure indie acts get depends on the local area. People in the Boston area expect to hear local groups on the radio and are very supportive of the indie scene.

 

 

 

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KJ

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bari man low

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by Tim Walters:

Here in the SF Bay Area, the college stations are quite receptive to local music, at least of the non-mainstream sort. I've had my CDs played on KFJC, KZSU, and KALX, and done live-at-the-station gigs at the first two.

 

Cool -- but what about mainstream styles? Every time I tune in KFJC, they're either playing deep dub mixes or giving the mic to some guy who's a self-appointed expert on conspiracies. What if someone does straight-up R&B ballads?

 

--JA

[Scott from MA]

Originally posted by KJ:

Hey Scott, I'm in the Boston market and was wondering when 'BRU went major!

 

Look a few posts up and you'll see where I corrected myself.

 

 

Originally posted by KJ:

I'm sure you meant to include WHJY out of Providence on your list.

 

I wasn't sure if HJY was still doing a local music show. I know they used to have "Sound Check" on Sunday nights, but I haven't listened to that station in many years.

[Lee Flier]

Well... here in Atlanta the radio support for local musicians mostly sucks. There used to be a "locals-only" music show on the "alt-rock" station, but now it's internet-only and not on the air. LAME. And even when they did have it on the air, it was pretty limited in scope. One of my fave local bands submitted some stuff to them and were told it would not be aired because "it sounds like the Beatles." Ooooh - horrifying! I guess the station would have preferred they sounded like Limp Bizkit or Creed, then they'd have played it. Sheeeesh...

 

We do have a college station with a pretty strong signal and they are more eclectic and do play more of the local bands. So that's something. But in general, support for local bands is pretty dismal, which is one of the few things that disappoints me about this town. Can't have everything, I guess.

 

--Lee

[dondottcomm]

I live in the worst radio market in the world Orlando Fl.And to think that I left Boston..Is WFNX still going?They used to play local stuff alot...I left in 1988

 

Don

[Anderton]

<>

 

Well, at least you have better water parks.

[trick fall]

Here in NYC/Long Island WLIR and KROC have local music ghetto's. You know like Sunday night from one to two am. I once spoke with a programmer from WLIR and was told they only played major label bands which sounded like restraint of trade to me.

[filmfsc.edu]

In the Boston radio scene, there are a few stations with strong signals owned by CBS. My sneaking suspicion is that those stations, such as WBMX,

push really hard to promote artists on CBS owned labels. FNX is pretty good, but all the "alt" stations tend to blend together in a Limp/Godsmack blur of noise after a while. FNX, BCN, AAF, sometimes I have to check to see which station I'm on.

 

WGIR outta New Hampshire is a good station with a decent signal, if y ou can take t he more than occasional hair band bender.

 

I'd love to start a radio station and open things up to local and indie artists. Those big name artists don't need help getting out there, they've got the marketing machine of the big labels, but the small guy who makes music for music (instead of T and A to move merchandise) really needs some local outlet. Internet radio is NOT gonna be that channel, it sounds bad, it's cumbersome, and I don't think anyone's going ot change that any time soon.

 

Too bad about radio, really. Even the classic rock and oldies stations that have 50 years worth of music to play restrict their playlists to something stupid like 500 songs. Think of how glorious the variety would seem from even a 2000 song playlist!

 

Dan Roth

Otitis Media

[KJ]

Hey Dan,

 

You are right about the AAF/BCN/FNX blur! Especially since they seem to rotate through DJ's. At least FNX is still independent. GIR is good and they do push some local acts. For a station with a lot of variety and also plays a lot of diverse acts, check out the River on 92.5.

 

 

 

------------------

KJ

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bari man low

[Tim Walters]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

Cool -- but what about mainstream styles? Every time I tune in KFJC, they're either playing deep dub mixes or giving the mic to some guy who's a self-appointed expert on conspiracies. What if someone does straight-up R&B ballads?

 

--JA

 

I think you're exaggerating a wee tad... off the top of my head, there's a bluegrass show, a soundtrack show, a punk show, a surf/rockabilly show, a world music show, and a rap show, all of which sometimes feature local unknown artists (well, maybe not the soundtrack show). Straight-up R&B? Maybe not. But should a college station really be covering the areas that are already saturated by the commercial stations?

 

Besides, KPOO would probably play it.

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by Tim Walters:

Straight-up R&B? Maybe not. But should a college station really be covering the areas that are already saturated by the commercial stations?

 

What the commercial stations are saturated with is major-label national acts in recognized genres. Lots of talented local artists are working in those genres. Why should a local artist have to switch to surf music or 25-minute stoned-out free jazz improvisations in order to get airplay on a college station?

 

--JA

[Lee Flier]

Yeah I agree, Jim. We have some local acts here who are definitely "radio friendly" but because they are not major label acts they can't get any airplay on the mainstream stations, and they're not necessarily "weird" enough for the college stations. That's pretty goofy.

 

Let's face it, radio just plain sucks. Good thing there's Internet radio, but that doesn't necessarily help local bands get heard in their home towns.

 

--Lee

[Tim Walters]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

What the commercial stations are saturated with is major-label national acts in recognized genres. Lots of talented local artists are working in those genres. Why should a local artist have to switch to surf music or 25-minute stoned-out free jazz improvisations in order to get airplay on a college station?

 

--JA

 

I'll happily agree that there should be a place on radio for these people. But it's the commericial stations who have traditionally handled them (and who are currently falling down on the job), not the college stations. College and other non-commercial stations' mandate has always been to present stylistic alternatives. Do we really want college stations that are just "minor leagues" for the commercial stations?

 

And I don't see any reason why non-commercial stations shouldn't specialize a bit. If I were a local R&B or gospel artist, I'd hit KPOO; rock, KALX; jazz, KZSU; folk, KALW; etc. KFJC may be a little weirder than these (although I would say not all that much, really; mainly it's just better, to my taste); if so, why not?

 

That said, I'm sure if someone wanted to start an R&B show or a "local mainstream" show or a "purely local, genre irrelevant" show on KFJC, they could do it with no problem. It's quite easy to become a DJ there, although you have to work the night shift until a daytime slot becomes available.

[Tim Walters]

Forgot to say this: what's needed, in my opinion, is not more mainstream music on college stations, but more stations like the old WHFS in Baltimore/DC, that were commercial but played the hipper stuff ("New Wave" back then) and the more popular local acts. Remember the "regional hit"?

 

Unfortunately, in today's oligopolistic climate it's almost impossible for stations like that to exist.

[Tim Walters]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

One of my fave local bands submitted some stuff to them and were told it would not be aired because "it sounds like the Beatles." Ooooh - horrifying! I guess the station would have preferred they sounded like Limp Bizkit or Creed, then they'd have played it.

 

When were pop radio stations ever interested in playing new music that sounds thirty-plus years old? Barring the occasional fad (like the recent "swing" thing), never.

 

I like Sixties pop too, but it's as retro as rockabilly or Dixieland (and like those styles, there's a whole subculture devoted to it, with festivals, college-station shows, etc.) It doesn't seem reasonable to expect your local alt-rock station to play it, any more than Sixties pop stations would have played something that sounded like Glenn Miller. It's even a bit too old for the oldies stations now (they tend to lag about twenty years behind, which means, yes, it's Eighties time!).

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Tim Walters on 07-18-2001 at 09:40 PM

[rold]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

Yeah, that was me. When I read the manuscript I felt it was absolutely something musicians should have a chance to read -- that's why I signed on to edit it.

--JA

 

I'm damn happy you felt that way; I searched for a book like that for a long time...thanks a million, Jim!

 

Harold

[Deathtoallwhoopposeme]

Lets face it, Radio sucks for a reason..They play what they are PAID to play..Legal Payola and they are good at keeping it legal..Everyone knows it and no one cares..the big conglomerate companies do not help a bit either. Hence the reason they only play major label stuff...They can't play anything that competes with what the big guys own and whom people get a Piece of. There is nothing to gain buy playin in INDIE artist. SAD State of affairs but we need to look to other methods of getting exposure as Indies.