Nawor Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Eminem is preparing to tour down under and our there has been a lot of press here about it with many saying he shouldn't be allowed into the country. From the rumblings coming from within our conservative Australian Government it appears as though he maybe refused a visa. Okay so whether we like it or not the Eminems, Marilyn Mansons etc. do exist. Should they be banned? Do they really have something to say, or are they all just another 'schlock horror' marketing ploy by the majors. 'Death metal', 'Hiphop' etc advocating violence have been around for sometime now but most of these tended to be more-or-less underground. Are the majors just trying to cash in on that part of the market they feel the smaller labels have been filling in relation to the so called 'anti-social' youth market? What did people think of Alice Cooper or Ossie Osborne or anybody else of that ilk way back when they were raising eyebrows? This message has been edited by Rowan on 07-05-2001 at 08:46 PM "WARNING!" - this artificial fruit juice may contain traces of REAL FRUIT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Originally posted by Rowan: Okay so whether we like it or not the Eminems, Marilyn Mansons etc. do exist. Should they be banned? Absolutely not. That only makes people want to listen to them more. Originally posted by Rowan: Do they really have something to say, or are they all just another 'schlock horror' marketing ploy by the majors. Personally, I don't think they have much to say, although it's got a great beat and you can dance to it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif All of the "shock" music fans and their concerned parents should go watch the movie "Fear of a Black Hat" for a brilliant (and very funny) example of the way controversial acts like Eminem are marketed. If anyone takes gangsta rap (or the controversial mainstream "artists" who promote murder, etc.) seriously after seeing that movie, then they're clueless... This message has been edited by popmusic on 07-05-2001 at 10:00 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 YES!!!!! "Fear of a Black Hat" is hilarious!! I agree that banning just gives them more cachet. I think you might find that if there hadn't been all the talk about banning them, ticket sales would have been poor. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Your statement exemplifies a major part of the problem. 'Death metal', 'Hiphop' etc advocating violence have been around for sometime now but most of these tended to be more-or-less underground. The key word being "advocating". There is a world of difference between advocation and depiction of violence. If depiction of violence can be determined to be advocation, than where does this leave our freedom of expression? If ever a legal precedent is set that blurs the line between these two terms, than we are screwed. Wouldn't this be grounds for banning the bible? P.S. OZZY not Ossie. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif \m/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Originally posted by Anderton: YES!!!!! "Fear of a Black Hat" is hilarious!! I agree that banning just gives them more cachet. I think you might find that if there hadn't been all the talk about banning them, ticket sales would have been poor. exactly. it is probably some conspiracy in which aftermath [or whatever label eminem is on] is paying off the conservatives of the country as a publicity stunt. some of the most obscene people are the most conservative... take jesse helms for example, adolpf guilani is another. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfish Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Im sure someone thought Mozart was obscene as well but who cares its music. We are meant to have fun with it. It is also an outlet for emotion and if people connect with that fine. If you don't like it don't listen if you do then turn it up. Personaly I despise death metal and I loathe Eminem but I won't deny anyone of the right to listen to it. Besides saying that this form of music advocates and incites violence in its fans is like saying that country music advocates and incites inbreeding and we all know that isnt true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr. rob Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I find it funny the gatekeepers of morality tend to be just as, if not more immoral. How can people that beleive in social darwinism because its what "god" wants cast stones? Who's place is it to tell me what artistic expressions are "right" and "wrong". Since I and most people are somewhat sane we realise the distinction between fantasy and our lives, between drama and non-fiction. Even small children can distinguish the 2. Just because some are so unsophisticated and sheltered that they have no critical thinking skills for their flock to resist marilyns "charm" doesnt make it my problem. Personally I think the people who would want to ban death metal and hiphop groups are a much greater threat as theyre wasting oxygen that more thoughful vessels could consume. If you dont like it dont attend the concert, if its on TV turn the channel. Even if eminem or manson arent great artists, lets face it there is much worthy art that is much more vivid and powerful and could just as likely be called obscene. If its not in some ways obscene, or at least challenging previous notions of taste why does it even exist. Its almost a prerequisit for new art to challenge preconceived notions, to in some ways be obscene. If instead of banning concerts they were burning books I doubt anyone would support them. personally I'd hate to think how Ulyses, or Naked Lunch would fare with concervatives in the US as those books make far too much sense:-) In Australia I dont know if things are as hippocritical, so I cannot comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 First off, 'Fear of a Black Hat' yes, yes yes! Spinal Tap for rappers! Several years ago, I saw this black guy on TV describing a 'rap show' that his daughter talked him into taking her to. He was flabergasted, having no idea that the subject matter would contain so much violence directed towards police, women, etc. HE banned his daughter from listening to this sort of noise. That is fine and the way it should be. A parent deciding that his young impressionable kid should not be exposed to such. What bothers me is this overall thought process that the government should protect youth and parents are never accountable for anything. This is just flat out wrong. Did society cause those idiots out west to go into their high school and gun a bunch of students down? Does the media cause violence? Did Alice and Ozzy, or the current crop of rappers cause rape and murder? One thing's for sure, none of it is going to be solved by the government. Banning doesn't work and producing legislation to solve these problems will never work either. Can't parents and communities take at least a little bit of responsibility for raising children? -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I was a teenager when Alice Cooper came out, and though we immediately didn't identify with all the fishnet stockings and makeup stuff, after hearing "Schools Out" cranking opening lines....we didn't care what he was either saying or wearing. Parents freaked, but they freaked about Elvis too. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 How sheltered a life did these people live, that they think Eminem and Manson are obscene?!?! For their sakes, I hope they never see anything that is TRULY obscene, or their heads may explode. Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 As an American who's seen war, that's the ultimate obscenity. Bomb the hell out of a country to secure the oil/resources. Gang violence is obscene, Corporate Welfare is obscene, etc.....we could go on forever.....IMHO, little M&M cussing and making lewd remarks doesn't affect me, I don't listen to it or allow it to play in my vehicles or home. Marilyn Manson is one odd cat, however it's only a matter of time before he's considered tame. There was a time when even the Beatles and the Stones were considered by conservative America, (whose remnants still tread the earth now in the form of Trent Lott & friends inc.), to be obscene!!!! Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJ Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I always figured that Manson must be laughing all the way to the bank. I think his whole shtick is to horrify people and to get them to clamor to ban him. I always figured if people would just ignore him, he would go away. He is just manipulating the media and the whole fame machine to further himself. Look at his feuding with Courtney Hole, err I mean Love. Publicity stunts. He even parodies and references all of it in his songs and his videos, think "Dope Show". I am not a fan, but I have to give him credit. He wanted to be a star and decided his best way about it was to be shocking. Brilliant marketing. He may have a healthy career in marketing ahead of him. KJ ------------------- "50 million Elvis Presley fans can't be all wrong" - John Prine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Originally posted by KJ: I always figured that Manson must be laughing all the way to the bank. I think his whole shtick is to horrify people and to get them to clamor to ban him. I think this article pretty much sums him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecreationalThinker Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 popmusic, I laughed so hard at that article that milk came out my nose... ...and I wasn't even drinking milk. ------------------ What's on, your mind? I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJ Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Thanks for the laugh Popmusic! In a year we can substitute Eminem for Manson. KJ ------------------- "50 million Elvis Presley fans can't be all wrong" - John Prine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 "The only true obscenity is human cruelty." - Lenny Bruce - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Originally posted by popmusic: "Fear of a Black Hat" for a brilliant (and very funny) example of the way controversial acts like Eminem are marketed. "Fear of a Black Hat" is almost as brilliant as Spinal Tap... the explanation for why they wear hats was priceless. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 <> It took me a couple paragraphs before I realized it was a satire...sure had me laughing, though!! Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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