KJ Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 But Master Zap, what chord progression will you use? How about Am-F-G verse with E-D-A chorus? "bay-bay" ------------------ KJ ------------------- bari man low KJ ------------------- "50 million Elvis Presley fans can't be all wrong" - John Prine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJ Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Which one's N'sync? ------------------ KJ ------------------- bari man low KJ ------------------- "50 million Elvis Presley fans can't be all wrong" - John Prine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 Originally posted by KJ: But Master Zap, what chord progression will you use? How about Am-F-G verse with E-D-A chorus? "bay-bay" ROTFLMAO!!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Man, this thread is turning into an encyclopedia of bad taste! MasterZap, if you ever seriously find a way to combine everything on this thread, be sure to post the link... Something *this* cliched could be actually quite sublime... This message has been edited by popmusic on 06-08-2001 at 04:08 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 "people playing in the room..." Thats not a goal for everybody. KC: Chord progression? Well since I generally do stuff in a minor key it'll prolly be Am-F-G, but actually thats more late 80's isnt it? Cant I do Am, G, Dm instead? Thats actually a pretty good one http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif but if we REALLY wanna go cliche who can beat C, Am, F G *really*? (There was this musicians joke a while back about how pop music was being standardized and from now on all songs HAD to use that chord progression) /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Originally posted by fantasticsound: (Any comment, Lee Flier? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ) Wow. For once I have no need to comment. You guys are nailing EVERYTHING that sucks! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Though I have to admit, if Master Zap does a track that contains all of these cliches in one, I would listen to it! That would be hilarious! --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecreationalThinker Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Gosh...I use ALL of these tricks (in addition to the hallowed 808 toms and cowbell) in nearly all of my tunes. I guess I don't need to bother submitting to the other thread, "Is your music any good? Find out here!!" Oh well, I'll just scrap all this and go back to putting the finishing touches on my rock opera scored for accordian orchestra... Paul I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 Originally posted by RecreationalThinker: Gosh...I use ALL of these tricks (in addition to the hallowed 808 toms and cowbell) in nearly all of my tunes. I dunno about the TR808 stuff... Yeah, it's been used and overused, but is it really a bad cliche? We've heard the sounds from that drum machine so much that it's kind of grown into a legitimate percussion instrument of the late 20th century, don't ya think...? Personally, I don't mind it... If it was good enough for Marvin Gaye... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Originally posted by popmusic: I dunno about the TR808 stuff... Yeah, it's been used and overused, but is it really a bad cliche? Maybe not a cliche... it's just BAD. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif We've heard the sounds from that drum machine so much that it's kind of grown into a legitimate percussion instrument of the late 20th century, don't ya think...? NO. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZsound Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 A cliche for the last ten years is the use of every possible track to double and layer every possible element of the song. Replace the real drummer with samples. Bury the vocals in the mix. Compress everything. Crank the bass and see how many four letter words you can get in a three minute song. (I agree with Craig on this). The point is, there are no standout tunes anymore. You go to a highschool basketball game and the band is still playing Louie Louie, Wipeout and old sixties tunes because all the other songs in between have no character or personality and thus no lasting value. Can you imagine a pep band playing Depeche Mode or Flock of Seagulls tunes to a clap along crowd? Heard any good Nirvana stuff coming over the PA at the local football game? Crap, crap and more crap and it all sounds the same. It's all just sonic soup with no taste and no nourishment. ------------------ Mark G. Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecreationalThinker Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I was being somewhat facetious, popmusic. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif I happen to like the 808 sound, and wah-wah, and many other things mentioned in this thread (except for the AutoTune thing), as long as they are used sparingly and creatively. As my favorite super hero, ObviousMan, would say "Cliches become cliches because they were cool to begin with, but become overused." I don't listen to the radio enough these days to really know what the obnoxious trends are in popular music, so thanks for letting me know what I am (not) missing. Paul I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Originally posted by b_3guy: That drum beat that everyone uses. Ahh, yes...the "My First Drum Machine" beat...kick hat kick hat kick hat kick hat mm-tss-mm-tss-mm-tss...booooooooring. Using an 808 or 909? Double boring... http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/sleepy/jpsleepy.gif My vote is for drum and rhythm loops. Already established firmly as cliches... dB This message has been edited by Dave Bryce on 06-08-2001 at 04:59 PM ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 Originally posted by RecreationalThinker: I was being somewhat facetious, popmusic. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif I kinda gathered you were when you mentioned the accordion rock opera thing, but I wasn't sure about the first part... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I just didn't want anyone to think I posted the thread to subtly put down anyone's music here or on the radio. I thought it would be fun to think outside the box and imagine what we're going to be saying about some of the music we're creating or listening to today. And sorry Lee, as much as I respect your opinions on this forum, and as much as I'd rather hear a real drummer over a drum machine, I still gotta say that I don't mind the TR 808... I don't know exactly why, but the song "Sexual Healing" would not have worked as well with a real drummer. (I'm assuming they used a TR 808 on that, or some variant of it...) This message has been edited by popmusic on 06-08-2001 at 05:01 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Drop D tuning. I've been playing bass for 25 years, and now it takes the tensioning of every fiber of my being to keep me from strangling these wankers that give me 'the look' when I tell them I don't own a 5 string bass. In my dreams, I suck their eyeballs out of their heads w/my mouth, but I digress... I can already see one of the cliches of the "New Millenium". That would be the vocal effect that was most famously used on Cher's last big hit. I don't know what it's called, and for that I am thankful. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif This too shall pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Let's not forget about squashing the shit out of everything with massive compression, under the belief that pop music has only one dynamic, LOUD! I'm starting to realize some of my favorite albums of the old days do not use a lick of compression, Neil Young's "Harvest" for one.... -Hippie In two days, it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I´d say that typical for this time and age are hard disc recording and the combination of plug-ins and awesome editing power (crossfades, looping, cloning, pasting, and whatever else clever editing techniques have we). Another very "now"-ish wide-spread trend is all the talk about good vintage gear. /Mats http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duhduh Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Originally posted by Hippie: I'm starting to realize some of my favorite albums of the old days do not use a lick of compression, Neil Young's "Harvest" for one.... -Hippie I read an interview with the guy who recorded "Harvest". I cant remember his name, but he said he used no compression on the entire album. "Meat is the only thing you need beside beer! Big hunks of meat and BEER!!...Lots of freakin' BEER." "Hey, I'm not Jesus Christ, I can't turn water into wine. The best I can do is turn beer into urine." Zakk Wylde http://www.hepcnet.net/bbssmilies/super.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_109.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Gear porn... stuff like Avalon, Millenia, Manley ect.. pure porn.. Shit ass low voltage plate *tube* stuff.. Lame ass lying ads.. Overproduction for the sake of gear wanking.. The phrase "Just as good as a Neumann but only 199$!".. Digital.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Originally posted by Duhduh: I read an interview with the guy who recorded "Harvest". I cant remember his name, but he said he used no compression on the entire album. Just my personal reflections: ??? What about tape compression? What about gain structures in all the various amplifiers involved? Ok, he might have made an album without using Compressors. But to say that nothing at all got compressed during the whole process is probably not 100% true. /Mats http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Originally posted by hiraga: Gear porn... stuff like Avalon, Millenia, Manley ect.. pure porn.. Shit ass low voltage plate *tube* stuff.. Lame ass lying ads.. Overproduction for the sake of gear wanking.. The phrase "Just as good as a Neumann but only 199$!".. Digital.. I agree to all of the above! /Mats P.S. BTW, is it only I that have low thoughts about Manley´s but quite the opposite with GML´s & Crane Song´s? http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I can't comment on Manley stuff.. never tried it! But I wanna try the Massivo... BAD! No I won't.. don't have kinda silly money... ohhh yes I do.. no.. yes.. no.. arghhh!! I've only messed with Crane and GML a bit. I wouldn't buy any of it though, there's other stuff I'm more interested in.. Like the custom Studer A80 I just saw, complete with rebuild discrete Mark Levinson electronics and PSUs... yummy! Anyone got 7K to spare?? .... More shit that suck ass in this millinium; Any kinda music by the major labels. Any kinda music on the radio. Any kinda music on MTV. Any kinda music that's got dick to with music basicly.. Ohh yeah, the religious devotion some *engineers/producers/musicians* have towards ProTools. You all suck ass too.. (Note I didn't say PT blows..) Hell, DAWs in general. The thought of using an overblown calculator aka computer for serious audio is sick too.. Finally, plug-ins suck! I'm sure I can think of more.. Ohh yeah.. the music business. I'd rather see the A&Rs, the chairmens, the lot slave to make food for the 3rd world, than mess with music.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I'm a having a ball with this... hehe.. The positive stuff; Music have never been BETTER!!!!! Yeah, Viva Le Home Studio Revolution!!! Lets sieze the majors, lets burn down their buildings, lets nick their gear and crucify the A&Rs!!! .. I'm drunk. I think I'll go out and get more drunk.. Later, .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st00ts Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I admit - the past decade hasn't been a fountain of inspired and original music, but you can't simply put all the music of the decade into one category. There have been bands who ahve withstood those standard high tech production tools, and those standard chord progressions. Obviously, N sync isn't going to be played on classic rock stations 30 years from now. But Dave Matthews and Red Hot Chili Peppers, groups who have done something different, might very well be on the airwaves in years to come. Such is the nature of anything classic, whether it be literature, music, whatever: It endures the test of time. Sure it might be influenced by the sounds of the era, but the song or the band has something else that retains its appeal no matter when it is heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 You talking to me? The past decade have given more to music than any decade what so ever. More sub genres, more experimentation, more new music, more people at the axe/knobs, more ideas, more originality, more inspiration, more more more.. at least in my book. At least what I listen to. I've got 'bout a thousand records/CDs and only 10% is from before 1988-89. But we're all different. Too bad that along with this explotion of great music commercialism florished just as much.. Dave Matthews is hardly the focal point of the 90's. Boring shit, might be an exellent player/wordsmith but his records could just as well have been made in 1970. The Peppers only made one kick ass record, the rest is just plagiarism of themselves. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st00ts Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I do agree with your earlier statement that Home studios have brought on a revolution and given musicians much more freedom to be creative. I guess I should slightly change what I said earlier - there is original music out there, but in terms of pop, and tunes that are widely listened to - ain't all that great. Rap - I'm sorry but Gangsta Rap as a genre should be ended. Boy Bands - If you want to talk about creativity, get a load of these guys - don't play their own instruments, don't write their own songs... Just a couple of examples. As long as there is humanity, there will be someone who is coming up with something new. I'm just sad that the mass produced un-original fluff is what we hear most often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Yeah, gansta crap blows, but it's almost only a US thang, that don't reach my shores.. And the boy/girl bands is just souped up shit that's been around since the sixties, nuffin' new in that. And it's got zip to with music. Music is a message and they ain't talkin'.. You're right, the mass produced Macdonald music is what's filling up the air and sometimes makes it hard to breathe.. hence my outburst against MTV, the radio blah blah.. Now, I'm 85% pissed, I'm off to drink myself to death or close.. Have a nice weekend fellas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Another cliche: Making things sound bad on purpose - vinyl clicks, lo-fi filters, etc. Actually the concept doesn't bother me, sometimes that funky stuff is fun and offers a nice antidote to all the "pop sheen" techniques. But that sound became established because people didn't have any bucks, so they sampled some scratchy record with a mic held up to a Radio Shack speaker, and got a really weirdass bad sound. That's fine. What cracks me up is someone in a half-million dollar facility, using a tricked-out 24/96 version of Pro Tools backed up with Raid Arrays, using a big $$ plug-in in order to get "bad sounds." Dude - just record into a dictation machine!! Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 BTW the Cher effect was created by running her voice through some kind of DigiTech vocalist-type machine -- come to think of it, I would have thought machine-generated vocal harmonies whould have become a cliche, but for some reason these boxes never caught on all that much. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted June 9, 2001 Author Share Posted June 9, 2001 Originally posted by Anderton: BTW the Cher effect was created by running her voice through some kind of DigiTech vocalist-type machine Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what happened was this... "Believe" was released, there was an interview with the producers where they said they used a Digitech vocoder-like unit (and presumably, everyone who read the interview ran out to buy one of them! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ), but later on the producers admitted that they lied and that it was in fact Autotune. It's only speculation, but it's very possible someone didn't want to associate Cher with the word "Autotune", especially since it's generally considered a dirty word among many studio folks... This message has been edited by popmusic on 06-11-2001 at 01:11 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted June 9, 2001 Author Share Posted June 9, 2001 I thought of a current cliche, although I don't really mind it and I don't think it's going to go away... What about when the music is playing along and then it suddenly stops -- to perfect digital silence? (No tape hiss, no sound of gates closing, etc.) It might be just part of the song, or it might be the end of the song. Granted, this was done by cutting tape on the Beatles "I Want You", but digital editing has made this a trivial thing to do even for the SBLive crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Whats funny is that each and every "cliche" you list is stuff I'd LOVE to do! Yes I even use synthetically generated background vocals, and that aint even a cliche http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I must be the master of Clichés. But then again, wasn't it this really cool Amiga Mod file (a music format for Amiga computers) that rotated around everywhere that everybody loved... called klisjee_pa_klisjee.mod and what people who loved it didnt realise it was norweighean for "Cliché upon Cliché".... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Seriously: I think people who stay away from clichés intentionally are doing themselves a DISservice. If something is cool its cool, if something fits it fits, and if something works it works, and if its been done zero, three, or two-thousand times before doesnt REALLY matter now does it? It's like chord progression. When you are at "my first song" level you hammer out a C-Am-F-G song and think you are good. Later you realize "oh shit that was soo cliche"... and you start writing stranger and stranger stuff... "strange for strangeness sake"... and that is not good. When you are past that stage and realize "ignore if its been used just do good shit", you might actually end up writing a song with C-Am-F-G even http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Try it. Use a few clichés for laughs. I betcha you'll make a hit. People will love it. You'll go "but it was a JOKE" but noone will get it, they'll just love it. My 2 swedish öre's http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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