computer monitors and our eyeballs

[KenElevenShadows]

Hi! I'm not really in the market currently for computer monitors, but I happened to be fliipping through MacMall the other day and saw quite an array of monitors and started wondering about them a little bit. I saw a 22" Lacie CRT monitor with a hood for somewhere between US$900-1000, an LCD monitor for about $1000, and a few others. I was simply wondering -- what do some of you use that you really like? What do you feel is the minimum size that a monitor should be for, say, editing music or doing PhotoShop? Do you find that LCD is much easier on the eyes than CRT monitors, or does it depend on a number of other features as well? Are there some monitors that are particularly low in radiation that you prefer? Does the hood on the Lacie or other similar monitors seem to really help?

 

Currently, i am using a Micron 17" monitor that was made in 1994. It seems to do all right, although sometimes after a few hours, my eyes are fried. This is especially true because for some reason, I cannot kick up the resolution with the Mac. Otherwise, it's still pretty good. Sometimes I find myself wanting a larger monitor -- maybe 19" or 22" -- which might help with something like Pro Tools, which is a pretty busy looking interface.

 

------------------

Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Ethan Winer]

Ken,

 

> I saw a 22" Lacie CRT ... what do some of you use that you really like? <

 

I much prefer a real CRT to an LCD monitor. For me, the clarity is a lot better, and of course you get a lot more real estate for the same price.

 

With monitors, like lots of things I guess, that last bit of performance is disporportionately costly: A 22-inch costs a whole lot more than a 21-inch, which costs a whole lot more than a 19-inch. So a 19 is probably the most economical. But I have to tell you, the best solution of all is to have two monitors. Especially with audio multitrack programs and sequencers. I have a 21-inch CTX and also a 17-inch no-name, and having two lets me spread all the various windows across both. This way I never have to bring one window forward, which then covers another. Everything is visible and accessible at once.

 

One big warning: don't buy a CTX brand. They are horribly unreliable. (And my experience is based on more than one experience.)

 

--Ethan

[Sir Bob]

I was thinking that because I track guitar and amp in my bedroom studio, I ought to get a LCD to avoid cathod ray tube hum. What has been your experience with CRT monitors and hum? I sometimes turn off the CRT when tracking a Fender through an amp. I have to sit close to run everything and play the guitar by myself. Right now I am sitting in front of a Dell laptop and have be no further that 2 feet away to read its LCD screen.

[KenElevenShadows]

The other advantage to what Ethan mentioned about the CRT vs LCD issue, is of course, that the CRTs are still considerably cheaper than the LCDs, at least from what I've seen. I too wonder about the radiation issue. I try and sit as far from my 17" monitor as possible, within reason. It ends up being about 3 feet away most of the time.

 

Perhaps the two-monitor suggestion is a good one. You can get two 17" monitors for dirt cheap -- check Fry's ads if you live in a large metropolitan area -- they are frrequently well under $200 -- and perhaps this may be a decent solution to eye strain...

[NKF]

Ken/Eleven Shadows wrote:

>>>what do some of you use that you really like? What do you feel is the minimum size that a monitor should be for, say, editing music or doing PhotoShop?<<<

 

TFT monitors are one of the best investments someone can do for working on music. Since I gave away all my CRTs and replaced them with TFTs I can work more relaxed for longer time. I had some of the best CRTs from EIZO (20") and replaced them with EIZO TFTs (18"). What a difference! Even the video monitor I use for film music projects is replaced by a Samsung TFT with video inputs. Another good side effect was a massive reduction of heat in the studio beside gaining space. For extensive editing I see 1280x1024 as a must, better a dual monitor setup.

 

Ethan Winer wrote:

>>>I much prefer a real CRT to an LCD monitor. For me, the clarity is a lot better<<<

What a nonsense - by construction a CRT can never be as clear (what does it really mean: sharpness, contrast?) as a TFT. Maybe you compared the best BARCO CRT to the cheapest TFT from three years ago?

 

The prices of TFTs should be seen in contrast to the life expectancy they have. They should last much longer with a good picture than a CRT.

 

I'm a big fan of good ergonomics and TFTs are a wonderfull thing for this.

Of course there is no x-ray radiation and static electricity is also not a concern (important for some allergic people -> dust collector).

If the information is correct then Apple dropped recently the production of CRT monitors completely. Makes sense to me ...

 

Nirto Karsten Fischer

[Chip McDonald]

I just noticed tonight that my cell phone makes my monitor distort while I'll talking on it, even if it's a foot away from the screen....

 

So who wants to calculate how much energy is required to do that, and how that doesn't affect the electrical processes in your mind...?

 

------------------

New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Ethan Winer]

Nirto,

 

> What a nonsense - by construction a CRT can never be as clear (what does it really mean: sharpness, contrast?) as a TFT. Maybe you compared the best BARCO CRT to the cheapest TFT from three years ago? <

 

A friend of mine has a fairly high-end flat-screen (sorry, don't know the brand or model offhand). It sits beside his regular CRT monitor. At first glance the flat-screen looks like it is brighter and sharper. But when you look really carefully (at a nice photo, not a Windows menu!) the flat-screen has too much contrast. The photo's details seem a little washed out. I've seen this on flat-screens at the local Costco too. But I admit I have not looked at the really expensive models.

 

--Ethan

[KenElevenShadows]

Um, what is a TFT monitor? Is that the same as an LCD monitor? Thanks!

 

-Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar

[Anderton]

I much prefer LCDs. I have one on my PowerBook, and I find it much more relaxing on the eyes over long periods of time. If I was doing graphic arts work, I'd probably stick with the CRT because the colors seem "truer," and don't change if you're off axis. But for music, it's hard for me to imagine something better than a multiple LCD display setup.

 

I'm just waiting for prices to drop, which they are starting to do. That Apple Cinema display for $2500 is soooooo tempting...when I can get a 17" LCD for $600, they've got me.

[NKF]

Ethan Winer wrote:

>>>But when you look really carefully (at a nice photo, not a Windows menu!) the flat-screen has too much contrast.<<<

 

Contrast is there when you need it - you can of course adjust it to your needs. I cannot see a disadvantage here. Beside working as a composer I would call myself a 'serious digital photo amateur' and I do editing of (digital) photos on my TFTs very often - it really depends on the kind of paneel build in etc. For my EIZO TFTs I can use ICC profiles and as I mentioned in my earlier post, Apple, known as a graphic oriented computer company, has stopped producing CRTs. In fact photos IMO reveal more detail, especially in shadows, on TFTs - due to the nearly perfect black a TFT can deliver. TFT makers offer mostly different paneel types for colour matching, fast switching times (video), etc.

 

Ken/Eleven Shadows asked:

>>>Um, what is a TFT monitor? Is that the same as an LCD monitor?<<<

Yes, TFT stands for 'Thin Film Transistor' AFAIK and is often used to separate them from other technologies of LCD monitors where you had/have washed out colours, ghosting, smearing etc. I assume a lot of prejudices against TFT LCDs are coming from former times when LCDs where dominated by inferior technology to TFT - which also covers differnet technical approaches - but I think this is going to far now ...

 

Nirto Karsten Fischer

[John Worthington]

I've gone completely flat panel in the studio and I love it. I have a 15" Apple Studio display and at 17" SGI display. All of the computers feed through to one of those monitors. The laptops or course have their own displays. I can't say that I miss CRTs at all. The only CRT in the studio is my Sony reference video monitor.

 

jw

[Sir Bob]

Craig makes a good point: Pictures and color isn't too important in Pro Tools. But ease of vision is.

 

Still no comments about hum from CRT's. I must be the only home studio guy here or the only one using single-coil pickups.

[Ethan Winer]

Nirto,

 

> I would call myself a 'serious digital photo amateur'

 

Then your opinion is probably more educated than mine (seriously). Maybe when the prices come down a little more I'll revisit this.

 

--Ethan

[seclusion]

Hmmm.

That hum from the Gtr and the monitors... Could be sorta like feed back of the past... I try to get it quiet at the beginning then let her go once I'm crunchin.. Hey.. Fix it in the mix right...

Damn I did a session as a gtr player back on a compilation CD and I insisted on using my wireless in the damn studio...

What a dick I was and still am.. I think it's payback for me when I get these punks in my studio..

Brian

[b_3guy]

I don't have one of the new monitors that Apple is offering. But in the showroom they look awfully sharp & crisp. As a graphic designer, the bigger, the sharper, the more colors - the better. A large monitor really helps to show small details better, like a feathered edge that does not feather the way you want. When you are working on a catalog with a lot of text, it keeps you from having to zoom in & out. If your eyes fatigue in anyway, something is wrong. You should be able to look at your screen & work 24 hrs a day. Either its your work habit, looking at written text, then looking at the monitor, then looking at your keyboard, or something like this, or you need to wear glasses, etc. I use DP 2.7 on a 17" monitor set at 1024x768 & I do have scroll alot. When having a lot of windows open, they seem to get in the way of each other. This seems more annoying than anything else.

[GY]

eb;;n5oimdrlhuy

 

This message has been edited by GY on 06-08-2001 at 10:39 AM

[GY]

I'm using a Dell 19" Trinitron. I also have a 17" Trinitron on another machine. No problems. Sharp across entire screen on both. Most of the time I need to see the screen from a distance farther than 24-30". It's my opinion that 19" or bigger is essential for use in the studio. Radiation from the screen? I think it's a moot point.

[RaGe]

I just got me a Samsung Syncmaster 770TFT and it rocks. The only thing now is the noise that get picked up by my speakers (one on each side of the LCD, about a foot away). I used to have a Micron monitor and never had any noise issue. Anyone had the same experience?

 

This message has been edited by RaGe on 06-08-2001 at 10:52 AM

[Guest]

According to my optometrist, the reason my eyes burn when working on a computer is because one subconsciously forgets to blink when concentrating on the screen. I've gotten into the habit of blinking each time I click the mouse, and it's helped out tons...

 

- Philbo