Tedster Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Okay...here's the deal. I don't know if any of y'all have done this or not (as far as putting projects on hold for too long), but I should have been (well, if you heard it, you might argue NO, TED, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN!!!) putting tracks down a long time ago. The point...I've finally begun my CD project. Well, the problem, I've got enough crap for two CDs. I don't want to make the first one too long. But, I don't know when I'll get back to doing this again, being as it's taken so long in the first place. We've started working. Like the engineer and the studio, good sound, nice, relaxed atmosphere... So, I'm thinking, I'm reasonably taken care of financially for a bit of studio time. Should I just do the usual 12 or so tunes and do more later, or ya think I oughta, while I'm at it, just keep on a'going and do the equivalent of two CDs worth of crap and let the cream rise to the top and the manure settle to the bottom? (Not that there's any "cream" mind you...). How would you all handle this? "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I would put each tune out on 7" pink vinyl.. is that a stoopid answer?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 Very stoopid. I like it. I'm not that well heeled though. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I wasn't kidding though.. If you dig the place, the eng, the vibe then do as MANY songs as possible, Man! Figure out which ones you'll put on what album later. You could put out a *Cream CD* and an *Obscure CD* later.. But you gotta put out at least one pink 7" in only 34 copies (Japan only!) signed by Tedster himself in a fur cover.. ya know, just for the hardcore fans.. Me, I'm a sucker for those albums... I've paid 150USD for a Beck vinyl single that I just HAD to have. I'm a Beck freak, but it turned out I allready had the song on an obscure jap release. I'm sick and I don't need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Did I say record as MANY songs as possible? I just recently bought a nice secondhand 12" EP with Death In Vegas, they have a skull as logo. It's etched onto side B in three places. Side B isn't even playable (never was), but it looks kewl as hell! Payed a lot of greens for that one too.. CDs are boring.. I've also seen vinyls with some liquid oil shit inside... that was also kewl! Btw, it isn't that expensive to get some vinyls out. It's the cover that's gonna rip ya. Just do a white label.. it might end up in a DJs hands, he might take it with him to some fancy disco, you might just have an obscure underground hit, and might just become famous/rich... Stranger shit has happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: Okay...here's the deal. I don't know if any of y'all have done this or not (as far as putting projects on hold for too long), but I should have been (well, if you heard it, you might argue NO, TED, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN!!!) putting tracks down a long time ago. The point...I've finally begun my CD project. Well, the problem, I've got enough crap for two CDs. I don't want to make the first one too long. But, I don't know when I'll get back to doing this again, being as it's taken so long in the first place. We've started working. Like the engineer and the studio, good sound, nice, relaxed atmosphere... So, I'm thinking, I'm reasonably taken care of financially for a bit of studio time. Should I just do the usual 12 or so tunes and do more later, or ya think I oughta, while I'm at it, just keep on a'going and do the equivalent of two CDs worth of crap and let the cream rise to the top and the manure settle to the bottom? (Not that there's any "cream" mind you...). How would you all handle this? Hey Tedster, My dream is to make a CD like Bostons 1st album, or the Cars 1st album where damn near every song, (in its time), is great. I will not rest until I can say I gave it my best. The problem is, everytime we get one song done, we think we can do it one better. We are never satisfied, so it never ends. You will probably record 2 CD's worth of material, and think you should do 2 more, and on & on... I am of the belief that if you keep plugging away at it, it will start to be good. I would go for recording as much as you can, let it sit for a long enough time to listen to it objectively, then decide what is good & what is crap. Time has a way of revealing the shit, ya know? Not only that, wouldn't you rather have 24 songs to choose from, to go on a CD, instead of only 12? -Hippie In two days, it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Ted, I think it would be a mistake to try and get too much done at once. I would focus on putting down just one CD's worth of material. Pick songs that fit together - not that they all have the same sound but that they work well in sequence and provide some fresh interest from tune to tune while maintaining something of a cohesive vibe. Once you start looking at the selections with those criteria in mind, hopefully it will become more obvious which ones to cut. That will allow you to focus on a sound that fits THIS record, and really zero in on each song. You want every song to be great and you want to be able to give all of your attention to each unique song. With 24 songs, that becomes really difficult to do. You can save the tunes you don't do, for a future record, which can then have its own distinct vibe. Hopefully now that you've gotten your feet wet with that particular studio, it'll be easier to go back again! That's how I'd do it anyhow! Congrats BTW, on a successful start to your project! --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 05-23-2001 at 10:25 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Alright Tedster!!! Glad to hear the news. Simple answer? Record EVERYTHING!!! Just do it! Nothing ventured...blahblahblah... Seriously, I'm not seeing any real downside to getting done as much as possible. And, no disrespect or anything, but if it took you a long time to get this project started, once you're done, can't you just see yourself...resting on your 'laurels' as it were, saying to yourself, "Damn, that sure worked out great! I'm gonna have to do that again sometime". Just playing devil's advocate. Sorry. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 So you know The Laurels as well? Didn't know you laid with 'em, though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 I'm more of a "Hardys" than a "Laurels"... Well, both sides of the coin... Hiraga and Steve both say record EVERYTHING...Lee says be more selective, and Hippie says make every song great. Well, don't know about that. Our engineer seems to like our songs...which is hugely encouraging. To Lee...it seems like in order to be more selective I'd almost have to record a bunch...just to get some sense of how it's going to turn out. I'm too close to my own stuff.???????????????? "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Well, are you into tunes or CDs? If it's tunes, then GO! for it.. you never know when the vibe will hit you again. But if you figured out some kinda concept album, then perhaps you should better stop? Now that didn't help jack.. I'm sticking to my original advice; 7" pink vi.. err.. Do as MANY songs as you like/have time/energy/emotions/money for!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Doh! If you haven't written the material (or are you improvising?), then stop.. .. or get inspired, and cut some more tracks! Shit. I dunno. I'm confused now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Well Tedster, I guess I was presuming that you 1) play all these songs at gigs, and/or 2) have demos of them that you did at home. Or at least that you've rehearsed them quite a bit. So that ought to be good enough to picture what they would sound like on a CD. If I presumed wrongly, and these are brand new songs, then yeah it might be tougher to decide which ones are going to work. I'd say then, if a song isn't coming together in the studio and you're getting frustrated, don't spend too much time on it - move on to the next one and see if that works. The main pitfall I'm hoping to steer you clear of is having too much stuff to work with and keep track of, to where you end up doing a half-assed job of 24 songs instead of a killer job of 10 or 12 songs, especially in the mixing stage. If basic tracks are going really well and you just feel like keeping on going, no harm in that I guess, but then it would be good to try and narrow it down before you start overdubbing and mixing. Then if you still have time, you can start overdubbing and mixing another batch. Comping and mixing could be time consuming and it would be a drag to run out of money before you're really done, just because you're trying to do too much. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Congratulations! I'd say focus. Get to the best stuff. The vibiest stuff. Record a little more than the 12 songs, but otherwise, hunker down and focus on the half that you really, really like. The other alternative, i suppose, would be to consider recording the basic tracks to all of the tracks, but only overdubbing and finishing half of them, assuming that this is how you are working. ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff "Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available! http://www.elevenshadows.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I was going to post something to the effect of Lee's second response. I think you should do as much as you feel you can complete. If you can get basic tracks on all the songs with lots of time to mix, then have the raw tracks available. If you feel like you'll end up rushing the mix, stop cutting basic tracks for the rest of the material. Go on to the good stuff you've recorded. Just be sure that everyone in the band is happy with at least some of the cuts you prioritize first. Good luck, Ted http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Neil (P.S. If it were me, I'd record everything live with no interuption or overdubs. One long song. Way back when, some guy named Don McClean heard about this idea of mine. I was about 3 years old and... Of course, I'm warped! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calfee Jones Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Ted - So you feel like it may take a while to get back to it again? I know how that feels. I think what you do depends on how soon you think you can get back to it. If you are committed to recording consistently (say every 12 to 18 months) then pick out the songs you want to concentrate on, and make them great. And a year from now you will have a new batch of songs to work on, and you can make them great, etc. If you feel like you might not get back to this for several years, then record more stuff. But concentrate on finishing up at least 1 cd's woth of material. Like the old NASA saying - It always takes longer and costs more. This is especially true when you are putting the finishing touches on your mix, and then sending it out to be mastered. There is probably some question as to whether you will actually use the stuff that you don't finish for the cd. If it sits for a couple of years you might not be happy with it when you get back to it. Finally, just release 12 songs at a time. I can't listen to 17 songs from just about anybody in 1 sitting... Good Luck! - Calfee Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Be Brave, release a double CD. Give "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", "The Wall", and "Frampton Comes with Fries" a good run for their money. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 Botch said... >>>Be Brave, release a double CD. Give "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", "The Wall", and "Frampton Comes with Fries" a good run for their money. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yep, my gazillions of fans are waiting for a double album...just before my European tour...hahahaha http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Frampton comes with fries...ROFLMAO! "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 What about recording/mixing enough material for a 72 minute CD, but then releasing a 50 minute album? For me, a 45-50 min album is just enough to feel like I got my money's worth, but it's not so long that it possibly wears out its welcome... Just my 0.000000002... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Record everything. And as mentioned, recording as much live as possible. Really, screw plans. Plans come from the mind, music comes from the heart. Just go in and let the basic ideas blossom. The music is alive and will direct itself if you let it. I would lay down as many tracks as possible and decide what to have mixed later. What is your theological preference? A couple of sayings from the Gospel of Thomas (in my interpretation) answer this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 Ahh, the Gospel of Thomas...one of the New Testament Apocrypha. Haven't read it for quite a while...since college, as a matter of fact, when I wrote a paper on "New Testament Apocrypha". Which saying were you referring to? (BTW...I don't have a copy of it)... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I'm in favor of the "take your time" approach. If you rush it, I am pretty sure it will sound that way. I say take the money you'll spend recording in a REAL studio and buy gear. You can always do voice overs and mastering somewhere else. But depends who's paying for it. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richt Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Tedster- Seeing as I have just been through this myself, I say plan to record everything and then once you have basic tracks for all, the ones that make the cut will be obvious as being the ones to keep/use. It is better to have too much choice than not enough. We decided to can one of my favorite new songs for an oldie that always goes over well at shows! Sometimes you just never know what is going to work until you hear it in context. Good luck! Richt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 Thanks, Richt... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3wiz Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 I went into the studio to do some work for a friend. He had a gazillion tunes and wound up turning it into 3 completely different projects. Different names...the whole works. He wound up with a Rock album, a pop album and a country album. I would say just do it while it's flowing. If the flow stops stop the recording until everyone is feeling inspired again. But,if things get moving nicely my gut feeling would be to push as hard and as long as you can. You will capture the fresh inspiration of these tunes best this way. You can lay all the cards out on the table and decide what to do with it later. Right now just go in there and have fun. So much fun that listeners will be able to smell the pizza coming thru their speakers. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Tedsta, my $0.02US: Pick the best 10 songs, and get the arrangements of those songs optimized before you go into the studio. Cut out any redundant passages, enhance the hooks, find the right key for each song (this is important to getting the absolute best performance from the vocalist), work out the beginnings and endings...there's more I'm sure, but you get the idea. It's how well you do in the pre-production stage that will be the determining factor in your success/failure rate, and how long it takes you to get the songs recorded well. I don't care how much free cash you have, don't blow it all. You may need it one day for something unexpected. Record 10 songs, and get the best possible over-all result for those ten that you possibly can, get it done, and get it out. You can always put out more CDs later. Recording all of your available stuff is a recipé for a project that will never get finished. Put a fixed number on it that is achievable within a few months, knock it out, and move on to the next thing. Remember something: you may not think of yourself as a potential pop star, but those songs have great potential value if they get into the hands of people who produce the next Britney's and NSync's. Keep this in mind as you produce this CD. Yeah, I know it's a fun thing, and you're doing it just to do it 'cause you wanna do it, and that's cool and I totally identify with that. But they're good songs, right? Good songs (and bad ones sometimes) are works of intellectual property, one of the biggest and most valuable commodities driving the global information-age economy. Don't sell yourself short, or underestimate your value; on the contrary, inflate your potential value wherever and whenever possible. Look at it this way. Before the advent of the internet and the globalization of economies, there were three types of states: super-powers (US & USSR), industrialized nations, and third-world nations. But now, in the information-driven global economy, there are new types of states; in addition to super-powers, we also have "super-markets" which will determine if, say, the prime minister of Thailand will stand or fall depending on how global economics determines Thailand's bond rating, as opposed to invading Thailand militarily. But there's another new type of global force in the world: the "super-empowered individual." The internet has made this possible, and used as a tool, the www and email can empower you to enact a global ban on landmines, call multi-national corporations to account, or market your songwriting skills in ways that were not available in the Tin Pan Alley days. I know it's a lot to digest all at once, but my point is that you can use this opportunity to record your songs as the beginning of a whole new career opportunity - as a professional songwriter. I don't know if you're that ambitious, but it's do-able, and it's something to consider. If you want to discuss this offline, instead of the back-and-forth postings on this thread, email me with your phone number, and I'll call you, and we can get into it more in-depth. curvdominant@earthlink.net Remember to leave out the "e" Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: studio time. Should I just do the usual 12 or so tunes and do more later, or ya think I oughta, while I'm at it, just keep on a'going and do the equivalent of two CDs worth of crap ? Hmm. It should be obvious what the "best" 12 tunes are. Right? If not - then chances are good all 24 are not as good as what 12 potentially *could* be if worked over.... Have you had some outside ears listen to see if anything stands out in an obvious way? If so, prioritize on those and work backwards from there... ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 Huh? Okay...lessee...there's the rub. I think that's what I'm getting at, Chip...is that sometimes a song takes life when it's recorded at its fullest...so, what I was saying is "I should probably just record everything, and then weed out what sucks and what sucks less, and put what sucks less on the CD. Oh, there are a couple obvious high points to me. Then, there are a couple that I think *could* be high points with a slightly different approach. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 57 Jesus said, The Father's kingdom is like a person who has [good] seed. His enemy came during the night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The person did not let the workers pull up the weeds, but said to them, "No, otherwise you might go to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them." For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be conspicuous, and will be pulled up and burned. 9 Jesus said, Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/gthomas.html This message has been edited by dr destructo on 05-25-2001 at 06:13 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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