method_of_control Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hello everyone! This is my first post, although I have been reading constantly for a few weeks now. I want your opinion... I am looking to put together a project studio using the following equipment: Paris Pro, 2 monitors, 2 ADAT I/O's 2 presonus digimax, 8 channel mic pre's (16 channel total) 2 wide diaphram condenser mics ($500 price range, I haven't decided yet) AKG Drum Mics a bunch of Beta 57's, and a couple of 58's, and maybe that seinheiser (609?) guitar mic various plugins, stands, cables, and decent near field monitors Room: lets say it is a medium sized room, not too live, with one isolation room, a small control room, and a small lounge. Talent: Let's say I have a small but good portfolio of recordings, and some talent with alot of potential. My question is this: Would it be feasible, with this amount/type of equipment to charge $20 p/hr for recording? What do you think the weakest link is? Is there any solution in this price range that would do the job better? Lastly, with this setup, would I just be chasing my ass? Should I just save a bit more and get a pro tools rig? Thanks in advance! Please don't beat me up, remember, this is my first post! -greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Better question: WHERE are you? If you're in LA or NY you've got major competition... Valky www.vsoundinc.com Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hi, and welcome to the forums! I'd say that you have a pretty nice collection of equipment, and for doing demos it should suffice. $20 an hour seems reasonable, but then again, one disagrees with Valky at their own peril! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif She's right - you really need to do a business plan, and part of that process is HONEST research into your competition, their rates, capabilities, what they're doing right, what they're doing wrong, and what YOU can do to gain market share - how are YOU going to differentate yourself so that clients will come to YOU instead of going to your competition? As far as large diaphram mics go, I've been VERY impressed with my new Rode NTK (and this is coming from a guy who is lucky enough to own a Stephen Paul modded AKG C-414 EB and TWO Telefunken ELA M 251 E's). You should have NO trouble finding them for under $500 each. I tell people who are looking for studios that there are three main things to look at BESIDES the price. 1. Staff, 2. Acoustics, and 3. Gear. Give a new 911 Porsche to a 10 year old and a VW to a professional driver and the pro will win the race every time. Give a $20 K studio to a pro and a $3 M studio to a novice and my money says the better recording comes from the pro with the limited gear - every time. Moral? Gear's great, but it's what you can DO with it that counts. And when given two equally capable engineers, my money goes to the one with the better personal skills. Personality matters. Acoustics? Well, no matter how good the gear is, if your acoustics are sub-standard (and if you're not experienced to know how to work around those limitations) you'll have bad tracks. AND if the monitoring enviroment isn't accurate (and again, if you haven't learned how to compensate for what you're hearing vs. what's REALLY on disk) then your mixes won't translate to other playback systems in a favorable manner. I think you're on the right track, but you really should consider doing that business plan before going any further. Best of luck with your new endeavour! Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 "Tough insights, realistic goals and true business wisdom. I only wish this book had been available when I was a studio owner." - George Massenburg Sound interesting? Check it out ! Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoplura Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 My first suggestion is to forget about the gear and the room, and think about what kind of services you want to provide. (Assuming you don't want to directly compete with established gear rental houses.) I gather from your equipment list, that you plan to be music recording. Think about what kind of music you'll be recording, who your clients will be, what their expectations will be, and what you'll need to meet these expectations. The artists you'll be recording are more interested in a pleasant recording experience and a good finished product than what kind of mic pre you have. Buy the gear that you are comfortable using. Make sure you have the tools to do the job, but remember that you aren't starting a gear rental company. You are providing a recording service. Plan and budget accordingly. Make sure your studio is comfortable for visitors. Provide some sort of lounge area. Make sure your equipment is working and that you know how to use it. Try to plan from your clients' perspective. Focus on providing a comfortable, professional recording experience, and a quality finished product. Note that I'm attempting to give pragmatic advice. If it's sounding too philosophical, I'll sum it up: I wouldn't pay you any extra to watch you use Pro Tools than I would to watch you use Paris. As long as the CD comes out good in the end then I'm happy. If I had a good time recording with you, I'd come back again and recommend you to my friends. Hope this helps, Ben This message has been edited by Anoplura on 05-23-2001 at 08:11 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method_of_control Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 Thanks for all of your insight so far! As far as location, that is where I am lucky -I am thinking of picking up and moving where it would be most suitable. Yes! LA and NY are out! The best part is I have a full year to plan, save and hone my skills a bit more. So I will be doing quite a bit of research and coming up with the plan that will be most cost effective (overhead-wise) while still having a demand for my services etc. Skills, and acoustics... sure thing, I couldn't agree more about those topics. I am certainly going to record constantly, read, and participate in these online forums quite a bit. As well as interning on a project or two (hopefully) at my friends semi-pro studio. As far as clientele I am looking for indie projects only. I feel I have a bit of an edge in that I am part of the indie music scene. I think this will keep a somewhat steady stream of bands who are looking for economical recording options, without labels getting in the way. I already have a few bands (well... 4 bands) looking to have me record them due to word of mouth alone. Which makes me feel great, but frustrated being that I don't have a studio. A couple of them are going to schools that have studios and are trying to get me in there with them to track some things. I was wondering... as far as references to competing with gear renting companies, what do you mean? I didn't think my gear would be overkill at all. So it makes me think that either you are concerned with my abilities to use the gear, or that it is such low quality that it could be rented and used just as easily as hiring me to do the job. Please clarify. Anyway, hopefully, things will work. But again, thanks for all the help so far, and please, keep the help coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoplura Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Originally posted by method_of_control: [ I was wondering... as far as references to competing with gear renting companies, what do you mean? I didn't think my gear would be overkill at all. So it makes me think that either you are concerned with my abilities to use the gear, or that it is such low quality that it could be rented and used just as easily as hiring me to do the job. Please clarify. Your gear list doesn't sound like overkill, or too low quality. It sounds like you have a pretty good plan, too. My point was only that it seemed like you were tying the value of your studio - and the price you were charging, - to your gear selection rather than what your clients are really paying you for. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method_of_control Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 Ben - I gotcha. Nah, actually, I am just really concerned with the equipment at this point. This will be a huge investment for me so I want to make sure I get the right equipment to start off with. I'm also really paranoid about my equipment becomeing obsolete, or growing out of it. Mainly, I just want to see if anything sticks out at you guys as very wrong... The way I look at it, I can always improve my skills constantly and enjoyably, simply by working on them - for free. But if I drop $2300 on 16 digimax mic pre's and they are terrible, sound-wise or feature-wise, the only thing I can really do is save up more money and buy something else. Ugh... I hate that. Thanks for the input though! -greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Greg: Upgrades are a way of life for commercial studios. Ben's correct IMO, the value comes from YOU more so than the gear, but even with that as a given, you'll probably be upgrading things every few years... and what souds good to you today might be eclipsed by tomorrow's technology... and what sounds good to me might not sound good to you, and vise versa. As Ben said, the bottom line is the end results. A deceint engineer can do pretty amazing things with a system like you described. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html email: pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com: I'd say that you have a pretty nice collection of equipment, and for doing demos it should suffice. $20 an hour seems reasonable, but then again, one disagrees with Valky at their own peril! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Yo Phil! No one disagrees with me and gets away with it! Not even you! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif Listen to Phil... he knows what he's talking about! Best of luck with whatever you do! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Phil: I finally have a little time off before I go to Aspen to record some of the Aspen Music Festival.... let's do that lunch soon... otherwise, I'll be in Aspen until September! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Valky www.vsoundinc.com Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F7sound - Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Greg, I'd be most interested in your engineering abilities. That would make the difference as to whether I'd record at your place. The gear is fine, especially for the rates you intend to charge. I operate in a smaller market (Tampa, Florida) and there are lots of studios here that charge more than $20 an hour. In fact I think $20/hr is "giving it away". Unless, that is, your not that experienced. If you can get a good sound for your clients that will keep them coming back as well as spreading the word There's plenty of competition out there, but if you're good, determined, and charge a reasonable fee, you'll stay in business. Just my $0.02 Michael Oster F7 Sound and Vision http://www.f7sound.com Michael Oster F7 Sound and Vision http://www.F7sound.com http://www.regurgitron.com http://www.LaptopNoise.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duhduh Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 I would have to suggest buying regular SM-57/58's rather than Beta 57/58's. The Beta series mainly have more gain designed for live applications. Doesnt really apply in the studio. Besides, SM's are SO much cheaper! And as far as the lounge; As great as they are, on a budget you might wanna consider utilizing that space for another iso-booth.(ie; drums, piano, horns, etc) "Meat is the only thing you need beside beer! Big hunks of meat and BEER!!...Lots of freakin' BEER." "Hey, I'm not Jesus Christ, I can't turn water into wine. The best I can do is turn beer into urine." Zakk Wylde http://www.hepcnet.net/bbssmilies/super.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_109.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method_of_control Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 hmm... you may have a point about a second iso booth rather than a lounge. I will have to see what the spaces I am looking at will offer. I would go that route if I could get a slightly larger control room. About the 57's/58's... I actually hadn't thought of that. rock it. Thanks! greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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