Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by Rowan:

Pheeew!.. That's a Relief... someone at last with some real fuckin' credibility... oh well I sometimes use a spell checker.. but as I can't spell very well I guess that's fair enough. Just as well I don't call myself a writer then... isn't it?

 

I'm an electronic-based musician and I do make use of what's available to make better things. AutoTune It is a valid tool just like a spell checker for a writer and a quantize feature in a sequencer. I do use it and many other programs in my productions or for third party projects.

 

I know the fine musicians which work in those productions also do make use of those products too which is great: If the plastic artists have no talent, at least we won't suffer ear traumma by listening their out-of-tune screams.

 

Too bad it seems I was born to make Rowan's life harder...

Wasn't this an Open Forum?

 

Sorry Craig... and Sorry, Rowan.

[Nawor]

So Gustrax why do you feel you need Autotune, and what would you do if you didn't have it? You can be honest here, I promise I won't take the piss out of you anymore (well at least until the next post!).. seriously.

 

Okay on one hand you could say the same about reverb, delays, compression, EQ's etc. But these are more enhancement devices. In the case of vocals for instance, Autotune and over-the-top comping is creating a performance that never existed in the first place. (I think P'Okeefe said something like that.)

 

It's become so common place these days that it just encourages a near-enough-is-good-enough mentality, and that, I feel, brings down the credibility of the whole business. The problem with this kind of technology, especially regarding vocals, is it too often becomes a crutch. It's too easy to fix everything in the mix. I mean lets face where would half these so called stars be without the like of Autotune etc. Is that maybe the reason you and others feel the need for this kind of technology too? To keep up? To be in the loop?

 

Music classes in schools are being cut back all the time, sure more kids are using computers and music software at school, but less are learning 'music' or an instrument. They no longer know the meaning of practicing, listening, developing their skills and training their ears.

They turn on the TV and what do they see?... Instant gratification... period!

 

Is it now a case of if everyone else can use Autotune, or Box 'X' or Box 'Y' then dammit so will I?

 

This is why I am openly critical of these kind of devices and for that I make absolutely NO apologies. I don't care who says it's an industry standard and therefore you should accept as a legitimate tool. There is enough that is 'fake' in the world as it is.

 

Our kids over here in Australia have been so bombarded by the worst of American culture that most of them now walk around looking like LA gang members. And what's worse is alot of of them think they are. Our murder rate is rising and most killings are by teenagers who don't even know the victim. And the motive is often undetermined. You only have to see the egotistical 'hip hop' artists being portrayed as 'tough cool dudes' on the TV to see where half of this comes from. Some of these kids even sound like they come from LA. It's all conditioning... Monkey see... monkey do.

 

Fortunately I have been around long enough to see enough muso's who can do their stuff without makeup, crutches production tricks and the like... and they are the ones I truly respect. I'm not young enough anymore to be sucked in by all this bullshit no matter how it is packaged.

 

Now I know I'm going to get some flak over this next comment but I think at least three quarters of the entire U.S. population have had their bullshit detectors removed at birth... and the remaining 25% that haven't rip them off... (er Hi guys!)

 

If EQ and Reverb is a bit like makeup, then Autotune is like a wig, colored contact lenses, false eyelashes, false fingernails and fake boobs. They were never there in the first place.

 

The sizzle now rates more highly than the sausage and don't the record companies involved just know it. Click that mouse, turn that dial...whooooa yeah!!... Is that credible?.

Go on tell me it is.

 

P.S. What town in Mexico are you from? I've been to Mexico twice in the past two years. I was staying in Pachuca and working in Tulancingo.

Mexican drivers are LOCO!!.. Adios.

 

This message has been edited by Rowan on 05-10-2001 at 12:20 AM

[alphajerk]

i dont agree with relying on other people music. what kind of fucking moron do you have to be to not be able to write a song? i can write a pop song in as much time as it takes to listen to it and get bored with it. all you need are three fucking chords and a beat.

 

besides, in the studio i only want to work with the creator and performer of a song. the tits and ass is for singing into MY MIC [a Telefuckin U69], not the one i have set up for an artist.

 

any way you want to cut it, it is manufactured music. i want to record someone who want to sing a song they wrote. hell, they dont even have to sing... lyrics are way overrated.

 

if other people want to do it, what do i care?

[Anderton]

<>

 

I agree 100%. Some of these people really do pour themselves into the gig, work their asses off, get noticed, and move on to bigger/better things. I say, whatever you do, do it the best you can!! And that goes for people writing songs calculated to rake in as much $$ as possible. If you're going to do it, don't do halfway measures - go for the most focus-group, marketing-oriented, sales-driven thing you possibly can.

 

And enjoy it while it's happening, because popular tastes change quicker than quicksand. Britney may be washed up in 6 months, or she may be the next Madonna, surprising us a couple decades from now. Who knows?

 

In any event, you're right to give credit to the talented people behind the "image." If someone said they wanted me to mix a Britney Spears song, I'd do the best damn mix I possibly could.

[Anderton]

>>I have a twentysomething friend who's waaaaayyy into 70's rock, and he's always picking my brain to tell him stories about the "good old days" when you could turn on top 40 radio and hear Led Zeppelin and the classic Stones and Aerosmith and Pink Floyd. And I'm like "Dude, I hate to break it to you, but that was never the case. If you turned on most radio stations in the 70's you were gonna hear Neil Diamond, Captain and Tennille, Elton John, John Denver, Olivia Newton-John, the Bee Gees, the Carpenters...." My friend was pretty crushed.<<

 

Lee, I'm with you 50% of the way on this one...indeed, there was never any "golden age" where everything that poured out of the speakers was great.

 

BUT the redeeming factor was that in among the usual disposable stuff, you did hear Zeppelin, the Who, Pink Floyd ("Money" was in 7/4 and hit the Top 40! Can you imagine that happening today?!?). At least radio was far more eclectic than it is today.

 

The only radio station that I really like is my CD player ...it plays only what I want to hear!

[Nawor]

I'm looking forward to the day again when some really average looking guy/girl sits down on a stool with just an acoustic guitar and plays a song live with just two mics. No effects/post production tricks and... it goes to number one. I can just hear some 15 year old now.... "How did they do THAT???!!!"

 

Now... let me see.... where are those acoustic guitar loops?...

 

This message has been edited by Rowan on 05-10-2001 at 12:47 AM

[Anderton]

>>My 12 year old daughter has Rett's syndrome and mentally is functioning at about a 2 year old level. She's loved Barney since she was three. Personally, I can't STAND the guy and enjoy all the Barney bashing stuff on the web, but if it bring a little joy to my daughter's life, I'm all for it.<<

 

Man, my heart goes out to you and to her. At times like this, turning people on to how to make better music seems so trivial compared to some of the real work that needs to be done.

 

And I welcome your reality check that Barney was never meant for US, it was meant for tots.

 

On the other hand, there's some stuff out there that I find vastly more entertaining than the fare that's supposedly designed for adults. I'd take "Invader Zim" or "The Fairly Odd Parents" over "E.R." or "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?" any day.

[alphajerk]

my kid has about burned out all the pits on his 'baby van gogh' dvd. he is always bringing us the remote to play it again. but when we are watching our shows, he turns the tv off!

 

barney has got to be one of the dumbest shows ever made, he will watch it sometimes but a lot of the kids tv IS made for both children and adults so they can watch together and the adult not be totally tortured [like having to watch barney]

[Nawor]

Originally posted by Anderton:

...And that goes for people writing songs calculated to rake in as much $$ as possible. If you're going to do it, don't do halfway measures - go for the most focus-group, marketing-oriented, sales-driven thing you possibly can..

 

Hmmmm... I guess as long as the $$ remains the number one motivator then the music will just have to take the back seat... I see things are still fine and dandy in the land of prosperity...

 

Speaking of which I've got this idea for an exercise machine. It's one of those Ab things... you know, they're all the rage... well I kind of had this idea to incorporate some kind of movement triggered sampler. I mean it only plays Britney loops but you can wear a headset mic and sing along with her while you're working out... er do you know an agent I could speak to over there about this... I reckon there's some $$ to be made.

 

This message has been edited by Rowan on 05-10-2001 at 01:24 AM

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Tim Walters:

I'm not sure what makes a band "actual", but if hiring for musical ability instead of looks is required, none of those 80s pop bands were "actual."

 

(nothing like dowsing your keyboard in Windex to get sticky keys unstuck; had a moment of fright, thought I was going to have to ditch my old-school circa 1992 Gateway Anykey keyboard, the best action on the planet...(if anyone knows where I can buy a replacement...?)

 

I didn't care for them, but the guys in Duran Duran were good musicians.

 

And let's not forget the Monkees, the original "Prefab Four". People still listen to them, and they were as fake as you please.

 

Frank Zappa wrote some of their music.

 

And I don't understand why writing your own material is so important.

 

It's not if you're a racecar driver.

 

person to sing a song is the person who wrote it.* Rubenstein, Sinatra and Holiday didn't write their own material.

 

These people were famous for their ability to interpret a song, for their skill and ability at the *craft* of being a musician. Outside of Sting and maybe Bono, I can't really think of any modern equivalent.

 

I think a lot of bands would be better off hiring a songwriter.

 

Like U2, the Chili Peppers, Dave Mattews Band? Led Zeppelin? What bands?

 

grinds inexorably away, and pretty soon the once-reviled era is the new golden age.

 

The problem is that nothing new has come down the pike except for electronica, which is being completely ignored by the marketing department of the labels.

 

It's idiotic. They're sitting on a goldmine and they're too removed from reality to realize it.

 

Bjork, for example: she's brilliant, combining all sorts of things moving in all sorts of directions, and people like her. She's plenty well known, and respected: she's never on the radio.

 

Because they can't figure out how Bjork fits the Walmart demographic, they're not even trying. Bjork is marketable 90 different ways, but she isn't....

 

... Instead we're wallowing in rehashed ideas, or pure gimmickry. Making an entire song around a sound effect, or one line.

 

 

OR, stealing ENTIRE SECTIONS from other songs and rapping over it, then calling it a "new" song. Ridiculous.

 

*I'll admit the songwriter can often bring something to a song that no one else can.

 

Like, maybe the song itself.....?

 

Wooooh.

 

Reality is just getting weirder and weirder.

 

But I don't think someone who's a good performer, but doesn't write, has anything to be ashamed of, or lacks credibility. We don't expect actors to be screenwriters, do we?

 

What was I saying in another thread about music becoming a synthesist of acting/art?

 

That's fine, if it's acknowledged as such. No one goes to a movie thinking Harrison Ford really got drug behind a truck by a rope; it's participatory illusion.

 

What's being foisted now is a clandestine illusion. I have nothing against Brit being the image of a form of music, better her than say, George Foreman. I have something against the media manipulating public consciousness in such a way that more is attributed to her than actually is real. That's how we've gotten the presidents we have, a "war" on drugs, a crappy educational system and pretty soon a whopping deficit due to an ABM system that could be made today.

 

It's no wonder things are so screwed up. The public is so used to being yanked around it's difficult to tell what's reality and what isn't, particularly through the scope of television.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[KBP]

Guys, c'mon. We live and then we die, pretty much for no real reason at all. What we do we try to do to make us happy. Me myself have been a struggling artist now for about 15 years, and I still can't support a family off of it. Mainly because I refuse to do other jobs in the industry that actually pay, I simply make music because it makes me happy and don't want to take part in any type of actual 9 to 5 musical career because it would ruin what I love about it. But to tell you the truth I'm miserable, and by the sounds of it many that post here seem very bitter about other people actually being in the limelight and making a ton of money, especialy if it's someone like Brit Spears. Who I bet ya has her bad days but I garauntee you she's a truckload more happy about life than most at these boards including myself. Me, I keep on the true track cause I like creating. I have just started to have to really accept what I am and eat shit cause theres a good god damn chance I'll never make anymoney. And if I did you guys would find some way to trash it, even though you knew it was true to the bone. Ah, screw that band they had a sampled zylaphone loop. Look people someone had to create everything you hear out there, this pop music does not just fall out of the sky. I very rarely hear positive feedback here, Why is that?

 

You really should not care whats on the pop radio stations, if you don't like it. Don't listen to it.

 

The company that I am signed to (production deal) since day 1 has said "we need THE song" Man, I could have sat there and put together something that they could have shopped right away, but noooooooooooo, I have to be real and write it naturally. Now it's taken 2 years for me to write the 3 songs that THEY feel scream hit for todays style. To tell you the truth the beef that I have is more with the band as a whole. I hate dealing with people that just want to write something into a song cause they feel left out, and then comes the comprimise. Fuck it all to hell, I want to make some money, nowwwww! But I gotta be honest, I don't want to be N'sync, I want to do it my style. But that don't mean I'm gonna hold a grudge cause that person sold out. Sold out? thats a funny statement. Who says who sells out? does not selling out mean you are doing something that you don't want to do, just to get somewhere else? I'm sure Brittneys right were she wants to be, considering she has been doing it since she was just a little one. But oh shit, she is still a little one. And her estate is making more money than probobly most of the people combined in this forum. I guess I understand why you guys get so emotional about something that has no bearing on how YOU live or die.

 

I feel like one with you guys now(LOL)

KBP

 

PS sound in a pleasing rythmic way is music to someones ears, wether it be autotuned, distorted, compressed, limited, eq'd, banged, looped, sampled, borrowed, stolen, by mistake, by the forces that be, or whatever. Hell I hear music when I'm at the stoplight and my engine is idling. Damn I keep meaning to set up a mic in my car.

[Alndln]

I wouldn't assume being annoyed at the state of music with unsuccsessfulness,in some cases this may be true but on this bbs I somehow doubt it.Personally after more than 30 years in this I've done more than OK,I just can't seem to find that damm off button you refer to.

[KBP]

Success does not necessarilly mean money wise, or it could. It could mean sticking to you're guns and making it. Most people it seems are very good at what they do. It's just that maybe it's not making them happy. Maybe it's not what they REALLY want to do.

 

KBP

[strat0124]

We called it bubblegum back in the day. We used to cringe when Crimson and Clover came on the radio.....but somehow when Joan Jett did it I liked it.....I dunno. I refuse to watch the Grammy's anymore, cause it's all corporate.....the true artistry is pretty much ignored in favor of Pro Tools manufactured stuff. There's a long list of "singers" who can't sing....but have hit songs. But they can dance and work up teenagers into a sexual frenzy....so it sells. I rejoice when I see the Ben Harpers, Susan Tedeschi's, Son Volt's, Corey Hart's, Keb Mo's of the world doing it right. It's not that rare.....just not supported as well by the suits with dollar signs for eyeballs.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Anderton:

Lee, I'm with you 50% of the way on this one...indeed, there was never any "golden age" where everything that poured out of the speakers was great.

 

BUT the redeeming factor was that in among the usual disposable stuff, you did hear Zeppelin, the Who, Pink Floyd ("Money" was in 7/4 and hit the Top 40! Can you imagine that happening today?!?). At least radio was far more eclectic than it is today.

 

Oh yeah, definitely. You could FIND stations where they played good stuff. If you didn't like the top 40 drivel you could go elsewhere, which is why people didn't complain about the drivel as much as now. That was kinda my point.

 

The only radio station that I really like is my CD player ...it plays only what I want to hear!

 

For real. Which kind of sucks because I used to like to turn on the radio to discover new music. Now I laugh at the idea that I'll ever discover anything good from the radio. If I wanna do that now I get on the Internet! Which again sucks, because right now most artists do not get paid for Internet play. But at least when I find somebody good I buy their CD. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

--Lee

[Guest]

I don't quite understand why people have to act cool or macho by beating up on a lovey-dovey dinosaur that's made for 3 year olds. Barney isn't "cool." That's OK- he's for toddlers! Frankly, I think young children today are exposed to way too much cool at way too early of an age. This could be part of the reasonI personally saw Barney turn my child on to music in a major and lasting way. From that point of view, I think he's fabulous. If I'm looking for entertainment, I don't put on Barney.

[-]

Originally posted by Anderton:

The only radio station that I really like is my CD player ...it plays only what I want to hear!

 

I agree. Other than listener-supported or college radio, I don't find much stimulating stuff on the radio. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that commercial US radio is controlled by only two corporations...? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

One nice thing to consider before getting misty-eyed about the "golden" days of radio (whenever that was for you), is that there are farrrrrrr more music options available today than there were 20 years ago. People who don't find much of interest on the radio now have so many alternate ways of hearing new music.

 

Imagine this... 20 years ago, your only television options were the major networks, public TV, and HBO. People watching TV then had much more of a "shared experience", because there were fewer options. Today, we have cable TV, satellite dishes, VCRs, DVDs, MTV, video games, net surfing, etc... One of the actors from "Welcome Back, Kotter" said when their show was cancelled for low ratings, the ratings were higher than what new episodes of Seinfeld received in its heyday.

 

What I'm getting at is that pop culture is much more dissipated than it has ever been, because there are now so many entertainment options. For music, we have more independent CD releases than ever before. Some of these are on indie labels, and some of these are straight from DiscMakers, but the point is that it's affordable for just about anyone with a web site and a couple grand to release a CD by themselves.

 

And for those without the resources to release their own CDs, there's always MP3s and web sites like MP3.com... There's Napster, too. Granted, there's a higher amount of junk because there's simply more music out there -- but I've discovered many independent artists who I enjoy as much or more than some of the big major label players.

 

Where this system falls apart, unfortunately, is in the promotion and money-making part. Without the marketing muscle of big labels, most of the indie artists I really enjoy aren't making that much money. But then again, they appear to be out there because they really love making music, not money... I've always assumed that if you want to pursue a career in music for music's sake, you need to be like a Catholic priest and take a vow of poverty anyway. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif

 

In any case, I think we're moving farther away from having popular music as a "shared experience". There will always be the heavily marketed, manufactured teenybopper stuff for the kids... But I think people who enjoy "good music" (by whatever that definition is to you) will be in their own virtual music cocoon with somewhat obscure artists who they enjoy, buy CDs or downloads from, and occasionally write e-mails to. With the way things are going, I don't foresee any landmark "Sgt. Pepper's" albums that have a large affect on musicians and society... Just mini masterpieces only known and appreciated by a relative few.

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by popmusic on 05-10-2001 at 11:19 AM

[Charlie-brm]

Singers:

Is it just my imagination or does it seem the average performer in the country genre has a better voice than our run of the mill pop singer?

What I mean is when someone like Terri Clark is on a talk show, she can just break into an in tune song a capella while sitting next to the host.

Never happens with the pop stars. I've observed this many times over the years. Of course there always exceptions but I'm talking in general.

 

Opinions from studio people that have worked with both?

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by KBP:

Guys, c'mon. We live and then we die, pretty much for no real reason at all. What we do we try to do to make us happy. Me myself have been a struggling artist now for about 15 years, and I still can't support a family off of it. Mainly because I refuse to do other jobs in the industry that actually pay, I simply make music because it makes me happy and don't want to take part in any type of actual 9 to 5 musical career because it would ruin what I love about it. But to tell you the truth I'm miserable, and by the sounds of it many that post here seem very bitter about other people actually being in the limelight and making a ton of money, especialy if it's someone like Brit Spears. Who I bet ya has her bad days but I garauntee you she's a truckload more happy about life than most at these boards including myself.

 

Wow, there is a lot of stuff here worth discussing.

 

First off, I'm sick of the whole notion that just because someone is successful and others who are presumably (but not necessarily) less successful think their music sucks, it's only because they're "bitter" or "jealous" of others' success. If that were the case, not only would everybody here hate Britney but we'd hate everybody else who's ever made a lot of money from music, too. Fact is, if Britney was nobody at all and I walked into a small club and saw her act, I'd still walk out. But there are plenty of artists both "large" and "small" whom I go to considerable lengths to help and support because I think they are really talented and I appreciate talent. I think most people here are the same. I'm sure there really are some people out there who would trash anybody merely for being successful, but I don't see much of that.

 

Second, it's obvious that there are some people who respect anybody who makes a lot of money, and assume that this makes a person happy. Money is like some kind of god. Being broke certainly can make you miserable, but being rich and famous definitely does NOT make you happy. If I learned one good thing from living in L.A. for 17 years, it's that. I was a broke and struggling artist out there and that was tough, but I really didn't feel that bad because many of the people I knew that were "successful" were totally miserable bastards. Those who were happy, would've been happy and made something of their lives (and probably kept making music) regardless.

 

Thank God I learned that at a young age, and so I never thought that becoming a "rock star" was going to solve all my troubles. A good many "rock stars" I knew were far more fucked up and unhappy than I ever was. I think the whole key is to get your shit together as a HUMAN BEING and then worry about your financial success. If being broke is your main problem (as it was mine), then you just need to do something to not be broke anymore. I totally understand that you don't want to do music you hate for money, because it would kill the love for you. That was my thinking exactly. So I quit thinking about making music for money altogether unless it was on my own terms and learned to do something else for a living. Now I can pay for my gear and I have a place to play and record and it's cool.

 

I think it's too easy to get caught up in a "pride" thing: "Well, either I'm going to make music on my own terms and make money from it, or I'll starve, and/or wait tables for the rest of my life!" As if learning some other skilled trade would somehow make you "less" of a musician. It's OK to make a little money at a day gig, as long as you don't make too MUCH money, or else you can't really say you're a musician anymore! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif I've always thought this was very bizarre thinking although I heard it a lot from friends when I started programming for a living: I'm not a "musician" anymore, I'm a "programmer". But somebody who worked as a bartender could still be a "musician". All very strange. Luckily since I don't live in L.A. anymore I run into that attitude a lot less.

 

There are also people who feel it's worth it to be broke if they can play music 24/7. That's great too! And I was like that for a long time. The point is it's a choice. No matter how you choose to live it's going to have its downside, but you just have to figure out what makes you happy that does NOT involve being a pop star. If stardom is the only thing you can think of that would make you happy, I guarantee that even if you did achieve stardom you still won't be happy. Stardom only magnifies people's happiness or unhappiness, so if you have personal shit to work out, better work it out NOW because in the unlikely event you get famous, it'll only get worse! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif But if you learn to enjoy life NOW, if you ever got famous you'd be able to enjoy it that much more.

 

For me personally, stardom is neither here nor there but I do want my music to be heard by people and I would like to make a decent living wage from it. Not necessarily wealth. If the existence of people like Britney helped that to happen, that would be great. Oftentimes the huge success of calculated pop acts means the labels have some bucks to throw around on a band they know won't make them much money but that they believe is good and deserves a chance. But the corporate conglomerates that now own all the labels, radio stations, etc., make it pretty much impossible for that to happen now. The stockholders don't want to see ANYthing that takes away from the bottom line.

 

The way I see it, anybody who is that desperate to make that much money at the expense of a lot of talented people who could use some promotional capital behind them, is an unhappy miserable bastard. People don't get that. In America we totally are expected to have "respect" for anybody who makes a ton of money just because they made it. Never mind HOW they made it or who they had to screw over in the process. I have nothing against people getting rich because they have a great idea and lots of people want to buy it. That is legitimate wealth no matter how wealthy you get. But when someone gets rich and then has the attitude that the only thing left to do is get richer, something's wrong. That is not a happy person or deserving of respect. And THAT is what I hate about the pop music "machine". It's gross in the same way that MLM schemes are gross, and Wal-Mart's are gross, and all the other faceless and artless crap that now litters our world and chokes off everything else in its path.

 

I'm still basically a happy person who makes the best of any situation I'm in. I feel blessed as an individual. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to bitch about the things I feel are wrong in the world. Turning off the radio doesn't make the problem going away. I don't shop at Wal-Mart either, but the places where I do shop are greatly diminished because Wal-Mart's exist. Therefore, not only do I not shop at Wal-Mart, but I have helped start protests in towns where Wal-Mart intends to build. I do this through awareness. Most people are not aware that having a Wal-Mart in their town is going to hurt them, so they don't do anything to try and stop it. Likewise, if you're a musician and you think the pop machine doesn't hurt you, you haven't looked hard enough.

 

Only by enough people realizing that the current state of the industry is a problem for everyone, will anything change. You really can't just turn off the radio.

 

--Lee

[Gus Lozada]

PEACE !!

 

Did I mention AutoTune is just a TOOL ?

I did not exist two years ago... and I've played since I was 6.

 

Perhaps I'm using it as a "me-too" tool, since I also mentioned fine studios around the globe are using it. Personally, and here it goes the answer to your question, I DO NOT use to pitch correct MY voice and did not use it for my promo CD. ok? I used it in a song like a "vocoder" over-using its correction to get an specific effect. Some of my customers really need it and I can help them a little bit.

 

Tools... tools... God Bless them.

 

I'm sorry of what I said about Barney. The effect it can do in a child is pure magic. Even my child likes it.

Craig, you are right. It was NOT created for US... now, everyone really notice that Britney Spears and similar things were neither created for US ?? Got the point? That's why I was not complaining about them. It is not my cup of tea but the music is well made in the most of the times and that was my comment about.

 

Ok Gentlemen, it has been a pleasure.

GusTraX

 

P.S. We are LOCO drivers ONLY with Aussies and Tasmanian Devils http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

I do live in Torreon, the north, frontier with Texas.

[Tim Walters]

Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

 

Frank Zappa wrote some of their music.

 

This supports my point rather than yours.

 

These people were famous for their ability to interpret a song, for their skill and ability at the *craft* of being a musician. Outside of Sting and maybe Bono, I can't really think of any modern equivalent.

 

That would be, at least in part, because people have this weird notion that the writer and performer should always be the same person.

 

I think a lot of bands would be better off hiring a songwriter.

 

Like U2, the Chili Peppers, Dave Mattews Band? Led Zeppelin? What bands?

 

As it happens, you picked four bands that I think have lousy songwriting, so yeah, them.

 

Making an entire song around a sound effect, or one line.

 

The history of rock and roll in a nutshell.

 

When you expect someone who's a good singer to also be a good songwriter--despite the fact that those two abilities have little to do with each other--that's exactly the sort of thing you get.

 

*I'll admit the songwriter can often bring something to a song that no one else can.

 

Like, maybe the song itself.....?

 

I'm sure you always listen to the original Cole Porter recordings rather than those lousy Ella Fitzgerald cover versions.

 

Look, I like sweaty, illiterate rock and roll as much as anyone. I also like great performances of excellently crafted songs, and while it's possible that the same person can do both, it's not nearly as common as I would like.

[Lee Flier]

Popmusic, very cool stuff in your post, totally agree with it. Yeah I agree that we may be heading for a day where there aren't many mega-stars anymore. Probably like most people, I have mixed feelings about that. It IS fun when somebody breaks through on the radio that just galvanizes everybody. On the other hand, it would be nice for MORE musicians to be able to make a living by marketing to smaller audiences, and more capital was directed toward promoting them so they could do that.

 

--Lee

[-]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Popmusic, very cool stuff in your post, totally agree with it. Yeah I agree that we may be heading for a day where there aren't many mega-stars anymore. Probably like most people, I have mixed feelings about that. It IS fun when somebody breaks through on the radio that just galvanizes everybody. On the other hand, it would be nice for MORE musicians to be able to make a living by marketing to smaller audiences, and more capital was directed toward promoting them so they could do that.

 

--Lee

 

After I posted it, I was afraid I was getting a little bit too off topic from the subject of boy bands, so I thought I'd start a new discussion here:

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001437.html

 

Feel free to join in, though!

[-]

Ooops... double post! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

This message has been edited by popmusic on 05-10-2001 at 01:57 PM

[fet]

Chip: Which Monkees tune or tunes did Frank Zappa write!?

[dansouth]

Well, I guess I should throw my two cents into this rancorous thread. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

The important thing to remember is that different people want different things. Some people want to listen to music that stands on its own, music that impresses them, engages them, moves them. Within this category are many different tastes for many styles of music.

 

Other people want pure entertainment - nice looking people, chic outfits, brooding or sexy looks, coordinated dance numbers, attitude, trash talk, tattoos, piercing, hair, T&A, the whole nine yards.

 

The teen idol phenomenon is more likely to appeal to the latter group. As many have pointed out, the phenomenon is not new. The Partridge Family was obviously prefab. I can still remember my classmates' debates about who was cuter, Donny Osmond or Michael Jackson. Not ALL of the Beatles' fans were in it solely for the music. There will always be kids who are into "entertainers", and there will always be other kids who are into "music."

 

This is not to say that anyone other than pop divas/pretty boys are the only "entertainers" in the business. I don't take Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, KISS, Prince, etc. very seriously as musicians/composers. Music is secondary, a backdrop. Entertainment pays the bills.

 

The grunge movement was a breath of fresh air. For a while, music became the focus. Hype took a back seat. But the tides have changed, and music has slipped back out of sight. The Ricky Martins and Chers and Dixie Chicks are in control. Entertainment is a more lucrative business than music. Any list of the top "music" acts will always boast a strong contingent of pre-fab, money-magnet entertainers. Always. That's never going to change. There's just more of a market for entertainment than for music, just as there's a bigger market for action/adventure films than for dramas. Let's just hope that wel'll live long enough to see a parting of the clouds from time to time, when the sunshine breaks through and reminds us what it's all about.

[geoffk]

grunge a breath of fresh air? please???!!! a bunch of long haired white doods playing guitars. that's pretty new all right. i'd rather hear n'sync or whoever than soundgarden playing led zeppelin riffs.

[KHAN]

>>>i'd rather hear n'sync or whoever than soundgarden playing led zeppelin riffs.

---------------------------

 

I'd rather be force fed Eel Tartar than sit and and listen to an entire 'NSync CD!!!!

[dansouth]

Originally posted by KHAN:

>>>i'd rather hear n'sync or whoever than soundgarden playing led zeppelin riffs.

 

STALE eel tartare.

[KBP]

Hey Lee,

 

I guess what I was thinking is that hopefully people are doing what makes them happy, regardless of the money. I do, it's just that I need so much in life. Gone are the days of being able to go 3 to 4 days on a couple of AM/PM hotdogs. Yea, I'm out here in LA and I'm pretty much on my last leg of living my dream 24/7. See, I just think that more people than we think want to be entertainers. They just want to do it on there own terms which happens less and less these days. Me myself my downfall might be the fact that I stick myself on the side and not be a singer, simply cause I don't think I could live the life you have to lead as a pop star singer. Though I would not mind being a pop star on my own terms. So I choose to play guitar in a band, I know it's not my TRUE calling but Is a calling none the less. And the cool thing is being the type of band we are I have now been able to do some lead vocals here and there, which is cool. My misery comes from other things than the music itself, that makes me happy. It's the no money (or not enough), diabetes, arthritis, bitching girlfriend, not being able to drive, getting older, finding no real point, being forced to deal with stupid people. Music is one of the only things that helps me stay happy in some way. I was only thinking that most people have similar problems to me, but if they were like Brit/ she at least has more oppertunity to go clothes shopping to cover up her misery. So more power to people like her. And hey, if you don't like what you're doin you don't have to do it right?

 

KBOY