Frunobulax Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 I'm sure some of you must have this issue: I want to record song ideas at home, by myself. I play guitar, not drums. I've tried doing some tracks with cakewalk, just using a soundblaster live as a sound module, but I find it extremely tedious and the results less than inspiring. What do you use to compose and record believable drum tracks? Or am I asking the improbable? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 I used to use a MIDI keyboard to play in the drum tracks, but eventually I got tired of that... It was too much work to come up with parts that a real drummer could realistically play. So I picked up some cheap MIDI drum pads. (I have an old Yamaha DD-5.) Now I've gotten tired of playing just the MIDI drum pads with sampled drums, so I bought a real high hat, crash, and ride. I'll be recording them live and using them to complement the sampled drum parts. I'll probably buy the rest of the drum kit one day... Be careful -- this is an expensive road you're on... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif (BTW, I'm a keyboard player first, and I happen to know a little guitar... Drums are *definitely* not my strong point, but I'm having fun learning.) This message has been edited by popmusic on 05-04-2001 at 10:49 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 vopt, If you're just recording song ideas, and you intend to re-record the songs later with a real drummer (as I sincerely hope you intend to do http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif), you can try it the old-fashioned and cheap way: hand percussion. Just get some shakers, tamourines, wood blocks, etc. You can get a cardboard box to sound reasonably like a kick drum if you want, and snapping a paper bag with your finger can sound like a snare, if you add a little compression and reverb (heck, that's what a lot of the supposed snare drums of the 80's sounded like anyway http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif). It won't necessarily sound like "real drums" but it will be creative and unique, and won't sound like some "generic drum machine/sample sound" either. popmusic: know what you mean about the expensive road. I'm not even a drummer and I spent a considerable sum of money on a full drum kit for my studio! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 05-04-2001 at 11:13 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: popmusic: know what you mean about the expensive road. I'm not even a drummer and I spent a considerable sum of money on a full drum kit for my studio! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I don't know why it took me so many years to realize this, but if you want it to sound like a real person playing, you need to have the real thing and have a real person playing it. Otherwise, you *might* be able to get *kinda* close, but... (Don't even let me tell you about my darkest hour many moons ago when I tried to simulate acoustic guitar strums with a Mirage sampler! Yeeeech!!!) To answer the original poster's question, though... See if you can pick up some sticks and cheapo MIDI drum pads off eBay (I like the Yamaha DD-5, which you should be able to get for $50-$75) and play the pads yourself into Cakewalk. If your rhythm isn't the greatest, you can always quantize or touch up what you played in Cakewalk. Good luck and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 I used to spend WAY too much time trying to do "human" feeling drum parts with sequencers and drum modules. Here's some thoughts: 1. NOTHING beats (sorry, no pun intended) a real drummer. 2. If you're going to use a sequencer, don't over quantize. 3. Quantizing and then using the "Humanize" feature that some sequencers offer isn't as good as just slowing the tempo down until you can get the part groovin' sans quantizing. 4. Step programming (or rigid quantizing) doesn't sound as nice as playing the parts. 5. MIDI pads / triggers allow you to play the parts, even if you're not a drummer, and are usually the best input option. Some people like using a velocity sensitive keyboard to "play" the parts. 6. I prefer the sound of using loops of "actual drum playing" with a program like Acid over using preset patterns in a drum machine, but again, a real drummer is always going to sound the best. I rarely use a drum replacement / substitute, but when I do, I will use either Acid or play the parts into a sequencer using custom built MIDI triggers and an Alesis D4. The pads are easy to build, assuming you can still get the right piezo transducers at Radio Shack. I'll try to locate the part number for you and post it later. I just buy a Remo practice pad, remove the head and foam inside the "pan", slice the foam into 1/2 thickness with a electric turkey knife, cut a circle of 1/8" plywood to the same diameter as the foam, mount (with contact cement) the flat Radio Shack piezo to the bottom of that wood (facing upwards towards the wood itself), cut a hole into the pan (and the wood) to make room for an output jack (1/8" plug - a 1/4" won't fit into the pan), connect the piezo wires to the jack, set the wood into the Remo pan (piezo closest to the bottom of the pan), lay 1/2 the foam on the top, put the head back on and it's ready to feed into your favorite trigger to MIDI converter. Head # ____________________# foam # ********************# 1/8" Ply # -------------- -----# Piezo # == # Remo "Pan" ################ ###### Okay, it's a spur of the moment diagram, and it will probably turn out all wrong, but hopefully you'll get the idea. The hole in the "#" and "-" is supposed to be where the output jack will go. Why use the plywood layer? Well, I tried it originally without it and with the piezo just glued directly to the pan, but I found that the pad would trigger inconsistently. You'd get really hot triggering just above the piezo element, and light triggers towards the sides. By adding the plywood layer, you're using mechanical coupling for the trigger and the response is more even across the entire playing surface. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 Just send me your ADAT or DAT tape and I'll track the drums or percussion here at my studio! BAE Productions - Specializing in custom drum & percussion tracks, loops, samples, sound effects and MIDI grooves. http://baeproductions.com There are companies who offer MIDI drum beats in bulk; you just pick the one you want and away you go. This can be great for song writing, but very lame for the final project. I started offering drum and percussion tracks for those who don't want to spend a bunch of money (and time) trying to get great drum and/or percussion sounds. Also, it's tough to really track the right velocities off a keyboard when it comes to laying down a MIDI drum part. So why not let a real drummer/percussionist do it for you? Good luck in all that you do, Bart ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted May 6, 2001 Share Posted May 6, 2001 Hello, Vopt- I spent a few years in a situation much like yours. I wanted to lay down working versions of my originals, with the hope that I could hand it to a band down the road, so we could do it right. As far as drums are concerned, I broke down and bought a used drum machine, making sure it had the operators manual. (Sorry Lee, it had to be done! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif While not a control freak regarding my own music, I had definite ideas on what I wanted done on the songs. Not being a drummer (thank God!!), I nevertheless wanted to make the drum tracks sound as natural as possible. Because of this, and because I was under no time constraints, I would typically spend about 3 weeks just programming the drums for each song. Perhaps a little excessive, but it got the point across. In fact, the drummers I eventually played the tracks for commented to me that it was nice that I took the time to try to 'speak their language', as it were. I paid $100 for the machine I have, and that was almost 10 years ago. Of course, you don't have to spend the amount of time I did, but the machine was damn useful. Plus, it was always on time, played whatever I told it to, when I told it to, and it didn't drink all my beer!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif If you can spare the cash, then give it a try. Just don't tell Lee! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunobulax Posted May 7, 2001 Author Share Posted May 7, 2001 Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. (a cardboard box??) However, I need to clarify a bit. I actually do already have midi pads for drums (a Roland HPD-15), but my playing is horrible. Think of the movie "The Jerk", where Steve Martin dances - that's my sense of rhythm. Thankfully this problem doesn't extend to my guitar playing - I think - but anyway... :-) What I had in mind was some software which would let me program a sequence easily. You know, 4 measures of this pattern, a fill here and there. Maybe a library of patterns - like Drumtrax. I ran across that since I posted the question - anybody use it? I can do this with Cakewalk but it just seems there should be an easier way. I guess I could practice on the Roland but I'd rather spend the time practicing guitar. And yes, I wholeheartedly agree that a real drummer with real drums is the way to go... but for now, for me, this is a necessary evil. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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