Philip OKeefe Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I heard they did this last Friday. Can anyone confirm / deny? Thanks. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html email: pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I thought I mentioned that a few weeks ago... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Maybe I was not clear.. YES! Chapter 11... confirmed. Valky www.vsoundinc.com Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com: I heard they did this last Friday. Can anyone confirm / deny? Phil - Did you hear this from a reliable source? I noticed that you didn't mention where/from whom you heard this. If they filed, it's a matter of public record and should be easy to confirm. Until then, a rumor is just a bunch of hot air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 i heard they have been trying to file but as of last week or so hadnt been successful in doing so. i cant believe they are in that much trouble. DAWs must of really torn their market apart. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGaff Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I heard a Rep telling a local store on Manager on Friday that Alesis has filed Chapter-11 and that Numark was company putting up the money. Bruce McIntyre - AudioGaff - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: Phil - Did you hear this from a reliable source? I noticed that you didn't mention where/from whom you heard this. If they filed, it's a matter of public record and should be easy to confirm. Until then, a rumor is just a bunch of hot air. All I can say is: A) I mentioned this awhile ago B) My source is VERY reliable... C) If you're in the loop of people who work with manufacturers this has already been confirmed D) I'm sure Alesis will make a formal statement about this soon Until then, here are some numbers of Estimated 2000 revenues for some of your favorite companies as PUBLISHED by Music Trades Magazine April 2001... compare them... does it look like Alesis is doing well???? Alesis: 39.5 Million Employees:125 Tascam: 63.6 Million Employees:200 Gemini: 59.5 Million Employees:181 Sennheiser: 43 million Employees: 82 Line 6: 39.4 million Employees: 219 SKB Cases: 38 million Employees: 550 QSC: 75 Million Employees: 455 Korg USA: 89.5 Million Employees: 96 Mackie: 207.5 million Employees: 1800 Shure: 265 million Employees: 1400 Roland: 210 million Employees: 400 Peavy: 275 million Employees: 2000 Martin Guitars: 62.6 million Employees: 815 Remo inc.: 40 million Employees: 330 Samson: 53 million Employees: 80 Alesis is number 37 in the top 125 music manufacturers... that's not good for a company that size. Any requests for more numbers? I've got quite a list here... Valky www.vsoundinc.com Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Valky, Quite a list ! You mention revenues....how about Costs & PROFIT ? Thanks, Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Wait... I forgot a couple of my favorites... Digidesign: 118.2 million Employees: 317 Sonic Foundry: 27.3 million Employees: 80 Fostex: 19.9 million Employees: 35 Cakewalk: 16.2 million Employees: 25 MIDIMan: 17.3 million Employees: 55 (one of the biggest growth stories this year) Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I'd hate to see 'em go belly up, I really dig that company, they were the ones that made digital recording affordable. I'm hoping this new HD recorder gets them moving again. -Hippie In two days, it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punchmo Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Well, Chapter 11 is a filing to restructure debt and create a pay back schedule that the company thinks they can adhere to and creditors agree to. Hope they can work it out. Chapter 7...it's all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 >>I heard a Rep telling a local store on Manager on Friday that Alesis has filed Chapter-11 and that Numark was company putting up the money. << This is true. However, during a Chapter 11 process, other offers can be tendered, and often are. This story is far from over. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Look who's No. 1 - Peavey. Excuse me while I go heave... I can't make a detailed comment on the Alesis situation, just a general one. Gross revenues don't tell the tail. The real story is in the cash flow, i.e. the company's ability to pay creditors on time. A lot of companies face the cash pinch and go on to prosper. A lot depends on the choices they make, how quickly they implement those choices, and a considerable helping of blind luck. No wonder I can't get my hands on an Andromeda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by valkyriesound: MIDIMan: 17.3 million Employees: 55 (one of the biggest growth stories this year) Go MIDIman Go! Very inexpensive, well-made, cute little boxes, big bang-for-the-buck, polite quick responses to questions, regular driver updates- I'm glad to hear they are a doing well, they deserve it. -CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: Look who's No. 1 - Peavey. Excuse me while I go heave... In every industry there is always one company that makes the "beginers" gear. Peavey is a perfect example of a great BUSINESS. They started out selling their stuff in "mom and pop" music stores... they built a following for entry level gear. Hartley Peavey is one of the most intelligent men I've ever had the pleasure of sitting down and having a good long talk with....very nice too. A great quote (read with a accent)... "Mom and Pop, Mom and Pop, MOM AND POP! Getit?" H. Peavey I can't make a detailed comment on the Alesis situation, just a general one. Gross revenues don't tell the tail. The real story is in the cash flow, i.e. the company's ability to pay creditors on time. A lot of companies face the cash pinch and go on to prosper. A lot depends on the choices they make, how quickly they implement those choices, and a considerable helping of blind luck.[/b] Of course revenues don't tell the whole story. A company not only has to make good products (with increasingly short life spans)...they have to make sure they keep making enough sucessful products to overlap each other so there are no down turns or gaps in overall sales. That's Alesis's big problem... they didn't get into computer/DAW recording soon enough. Now, they're trying to catch up..... I hope they do.... As far as costs/profit numbers... I don't have those... they're a little harder to find! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Here are the top 5 companies: 1. Yamaha 822 million Employees: 978 2. Harman Pro (JBL,DBX,CROWN etc.) 476.3 million Employees: 3000 3. Steinway 331.7 million Employees: 3060 4. Fender 281.1 million Employees: 2500 5. Peavey 275 million Employees: 2000 Valky www.vsoundinc.com Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by dadabobro@yahoo.com: Go MIDIman Go! Very inexpensive, well-made, cute little boxes, big bang-for-the-buck, polite quick responses to questions, regular driver updates- I'm glad to hear they are a doing well, they deserve it. -CB Yea! I love my little MIDI man SPDIF to AES converter box. MIDI MAN grew 128% in 2000! That's big! Line 6 also did very well...64% growth. Valky Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by Hippie: they were the ones that made digital recording affordable. Sad but true, the innovators in this industry are often the first to go belly up. How many Moog and ARP synths are being made today? The first MIDI keyboards were released by Roland and Sequential Circuits in 1983 and Sequential Circuits went down for the count a few years later. The first MIDI + Audio sequencer was made by Opcode. Everyone else that followed their trail is still around, but Opcode is gone. Alesis created the Adat, which started a revolution, and was the best selling multitrack of all time, but now...? As someone who bought as new both HR16s, a Quadraverb, two Adats, a BRC, a QS8, and a DM Pro, Id hate to see Alesis go. Im glad theres still hope. Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 >> In every industry there is always one company that >> makes the "beginers" gear. Peavey is a perfect example >> of a great BUSINESS. "If you want to dine with the classes, you've got to sell to the masses." I don't remember who said that - William Randolph Hearst, perhaps - but he was RICH. I'm sure that Ray Kroc was an intelligent person and a nice guy, too, but I still refuse to eat at McDonalds. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by valkyriesound: MIDI MAN grew 128% in 2000! Well, personally, I am hoping for a hit from them in 2001. They seem to be developing an 8 pad midi controller using tactex, the same stuff that Bob Moog is making a controller out of for his monosynth. The material senses pressure and x-y direction, AND is able to track multiple fingers across it, apparently. It seems like a great controller for DAW's or complex synth applications. There is more on their site about the device (surface one) which they hope to show at summer namm. Cheers, Jerry ------------------ www.tuskerfort.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 hey, dont make fun of peavey. what else can you buy thats cheap, well built, can drop out of an airplane accidently and still run it at the show? now their guitar amps leave to be desired, but the things i have by them work great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videoeditor1 Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 One of my distributors told me (2 weeks ago) I'd better hurry up and get the "XYZ" made by Alesis, cuz the "bank" owns 'em.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Weren't Alesis and ART a spinoff of MXR? GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebonn Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 It seems the majority of the things I buy, the co. goes bankrupt. Quantex computer. Syquest. Opcode. And now Alesis. Next will be me. www.blairsdevillestudios.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by GY: Weren't Alesis and ART a spinoff of MXR? One of the founders of MXR was Keith Barr, who left the company in the mid 80's to found Alesis. ART was what became of MXR after Keith left. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman1ovation.net Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: Look who's No. 1 - Peavey. Excuse me while I go heave... [EDIT] No wonder I can't get my hands on an Andromeda... I'm really pulling for Alesis. I've got my eye on the HD24 fingers crossed. Now, about that humorous Peavey comment http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif, I've got to relay a little incident that occurred in 1991. I haven't gigged regularly since 1978 which was when I was starting to get studio work and started my own little project studio. I prefer the recording, arranging, producing side of things, but once in a while, I'll make the rounds for a few months and do some gigs to enjoy the live spontaneity of other musicians, etc. That's what was happening in '91. I was sort of bouncing around with two or three main groups, sitting in here and there for the evening, and subbing some. One day I was called to sub like the next night for a keyboard player. I knew the singer and knew he was going to have a fun set list. When I got there, none other than Chuck Rainey was the night's bassist. I could fill several pages about how record-perfect bass parts spill from his hands and about what a generous player he is. By that I mean that when a sub like myself was there with my little index cards of some chords I'd scribbled from the "maybe" list of songs, his way of playing was almost like a magnet that helped me stay with the program. He plays very sensitively to other players and makes everyone else sound good while his every note is worthy of transcription. It was noticeable, like the one night I saw Nolan Ryan pitch, and could tell way up in the bleachers that his "regular" ball was like everyone else's fast ball and his fast ball was even hard to follow with the eyes even from a great distance. I can't tell you for sure what bass he played because I was bowled over by the fact that the bass amp was a Peavey Basic!! That twelve inch little portable amp was nothing but perfect tone, punch and volume pumping out great Chuck Rainey lines! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I had a really good time that night. I sure hope you DO get your hands on that Andromeda. It seems very cool to me, and was a big time tempter. Once it is out and about it should become a collector's item; not because of whatever fate may befall Alesis, but for being the full blown 16 voice analog synth that it is. I'm thinking Alesis isn't down, but just experiencing a difficult transition. I remember a few years ago when the grave diggers already had their special shovels with the Apple logo on them; all poised and ready. Not! This message has been edited by musicman1@ovation.net on 05-01-2001 at 10:49 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 hey val, i didnt notice motu on your list, what were their numbers. i would like to see the numbers for PT, Cubase, Logic, and Motu [whats working on MAC] alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 A few comments... Val, you have good sources! What you've said rings true. The main problem with Alesis is that they have not been able to get their new product line introduced before the old one started to fade. ADATs are still doing reasonably well, btw, but there's more to a company than one product. E-mu used to have the same problem, but they'd always pull out some miracle. They almost died when the Emulator II was announced a year before it came out, and people stopped buying Emulator Is. But then the EII came out and was a big hit. When it ran out of steam and E-mu was again having a hard time, the Drumulator came along and saved their butt. The same thing happened again with Proteus. After being bought by Creative, they became much more stable and didn't have the "boom and bust" problem. The VS-880/DR8 type market should have been owned by Alesis, but they stuck with tape. The HDR24 could be the product that pulls them out of the hold, assuming they get the slack to produce it. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I can't resist making a few other comments... MIDIMAN: Fine products, fine company, never gotten the recognition they deserve but I have a feeling that's about to change. Picking up the distribution for Reason was a real coup. Most of their products are triumphs of engineering, not marketing. Peavey: Say what you will...I have a bunch of their gear, and it indeed takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. Some of their stuff is great; I still use the DPM4 on a regular basis (laugh if you will, people don't laugh when they hear the sounds I get out of it!). Also the PC1600x is a fabulously useful, cost-effective piece of gear. And some of their guitars are pretty fine. When I go to Europe and don't want to risk taking my PRS on the plane, I take a Peavey Milano. Peavey's TubeFex is very good, also. Peavey is like Radio Shack: they make so much gear that you have to be selective and know what the good stuff is. Overall I have a tremendous amount of respect for Peavey. It's just a terrible shame that Melia Peavey died, she had a lot to with taking that company from a sort of K-Mart image to something far more substantial. Line 6: I know about some things they're going to announce at Summer NAMM and while I can't talk about them, I'll venture to say that guitarists will be very, very impressed. Back to Alesis...everyone I know is really pulling for the company. It doesn't look good, but it doesn't look hopeless, either. In any event, I don't think the technology will go away, although it may be under the aegis of different companies. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvster Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 A comment about the Music Trades numbers: Remember that these stats are cobbled together from a variety of sources, and that many of the numbers are supplied by the manufacturers. It's not like the companies open their books for a Music Trades audit. Now, I'm not saying they're not useful! I believe MT puts stats together with great care, and they probably paint a good relative picture of the industry. But it's important to realize this is fuzzy math -- those figures aren't gospel. As for why companies run out of money, it's not always as simple as one failed or delayed market strategy (though it can be). Sometimes generally smart management does dumb things with inventory, taxes, overhead, you name it. Too bad more MI companies aren't public, then we'd really get the nitty-gritty. ;-) Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Yea, the bottom line Peavy stuff sucks, but I swear by their little tube combo amps for recording. I have a 30 watt Peavy Tweed amp that sounds great to tape. I was amazed that a crappy little peavy .... -Hippie In two days, it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 2, 2001 Author Share Posted May 2, 2001 WOW - I post a thread, go into LA for a day and come back to THIS! Thanks for all the info folks. I heard the rumor over on the unofficial AW4416 user's group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AW4416) from someone who heard it over on r.a.p. (which I tend to stay away from because there seems to be a large number of posers and flamethrowers who hang out there.... maybe my perception is incorrect, but that's what I saw while lurking... I personally prefer the more accepting and helpful "tone" of this site and the AW4416 site). Val, I do remember your earlier postings regarding the "Alesis troubles" but this was something new insofar as it was a report of an actual Chapter 11 filing as of last Friday. And if it's been filed, then it should be easy enough to confirm. Your sources seem to be outstanding, and you know I'll accept it if it's backed up by you. Your reputation is golden with me girl! Audiowave, I also heard the Numark story. Craig, I have to agree with you (and others) regarding the nature of Peavey gear. They got a bad rep early on with some of their products ("K-Mart") but they have consistently improved in terms of reliability and sound quality over the years, and Melia Peavey was doing a lot to improve their image - her passing was a terrible shame, and my condolences go out to Hartley and all of the people over at Peavey. Also Craig, you're right about Alesis - they SHOULD have owned the HDR market years ago, and IMO, dropped the ball. ADAT edit came out too late, had early software bugs that took too long to rectify and you could only install one card per PC (although Macs could take more than one), AFAIK, they STILL have not rectified this. As far as stand alone HDR's, they should have had a product out a LONG time ago. The closest thing was the E-Mu Darwin, and that was a E-Mu product with a licenced ADAT interface. I am certainly pulling for Alesis. I used to jokingly say "Alesis - when it works, it's the BEST!" That was due to the tendency of ADATs to do funny little things - you know, the middle machine in a stack would go forward when you hit rewind, while the other two went into rewind normally.... Alesis blew the customer service somewhat IMO. I know of LOTS of engineers who experienced that problem, but whenever you asked a CSR about it, they'd say "that's the first we've ever heard of it". But in spite of all that, their products were certainly innovative and oftentimes HUGE bang for the buck items, similar to MIDIman's stuff nowadays. A lot of us pros tend to bag on anything that's not high dollar, esoteric and exotic. Peavey, Midiman and Alesis are unfortunate targets of our wrath, and it's not really fair. Alesis is largely responsible for the "project studio revolution" because they, for better or worse, were the first to offer a recording format that the average user could afford and that allowed them to do pro level recordings. I can certainly understand the downside to that - because the technology became affordable, we got swamped with so-so recordings. All the great gear in the world doesn't automatically turn you into a pro level recording engineer overnight, nor does it give you automatic taste and musical chops, but that's not the inexpensive gear manufacturer's fault. I'm all for empowerment, and I'd rather have that and deal with the downside. So I really hope everything works out for Alesis and that their products and innovations continue to move forward in the future. Thanks to everyone for all the replies and information. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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