Anderton Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I subscribe to Bob Lefsetz's newsletter, and asked if I could reproduce a recent column. He gave me permission, so thanks Bob, and I'd be curious as to your comments. MAINTAINING CREDIBILITY (copyright 2001 Robert Scott Lefsetz) 1. Be able to play live. 2. Don't accept every offer. 3. Don't appear on TRL. 4. Talk on camera infrequently if at all. 5. Allow taping at your concerts. 6. Don't wear any clothes on stage that people wouldn't wear on the street. 7. Don't do "Behind The Music". (Okay, you do BTM as part of the megahype for your new album...what do you do for the album after THAT?!!) 8. Don't produce your own album unless no one else can capture the sound in your head and you're up to the task. 9. Hire a producer to get the real you on tape, not one who's known for making hits. 10. If you're not signed to a major label, don't until you've sold enough indie records to get a modicum of control in the contract that you sign. 11. Don't kick out a member of the band unless there really are health issues involved. (You'd be surprised how many fans love that drummer you hate. And when you sack him, they're going to be MAD at you.) 12. Do benefit shows. 13. Don't wait for others to go on record. If you feel it, do it. Sure, there's a backlash against Metallica for their Napster stand, but there's also a concomitant credibility bonus for standing up for what's right and not waiting for others to join them to take this stand. 14. Don't allow your record company to work singles from your album a year after it's released. (Unless, like with "Wicked Game", radio truly demands it.) This pisses off fans, who purchased the album when it came out and have to listen to lame deejays go on about the act's "new" record. 15. Release an album every eighteen months at the longest. Of course, this means you can't have the huge record company hype for every release, but doesn't this hype ultimately erode your credibility and career? 16. Don't be afraid to cover songs. Especially in concert. By doing this, you show your ROOTS! 17. Don't talk down to your audience. Don't refer to them as "kids", even if they are. 18. Don't be afraid to say something negative. 19. Don't become inaccessible. Oh, this worked in the sixties, but the acts were only inaccessible for brief periods of time. The classic example of this today is Pearl Jam. Sure, I can see pulling back from MTV, but please, meet the fans half way! At least do ONE video from each album. 20. Don't do the same show every night. (Go on the Web and see fans posting set lists from various shows. No matter how many times you've seen the act, if they performed one of your favorites and you weren't there, you're drawn to see them again, and again, until you hear it, or something equally precious to you.) 21. Don't record a whole concert and sell it to MTV, VH1 or HBO. But you CAN make a movie and have it play in theatres. Sure, fewer people will see it, but those who do, will TESTIFY! 22. Don't do "Storytellers". If you've got credibility, this only works if you're on the upswing/one of the first. Classic example. Don Henley wanted to release an album of his "Unplugged". But Geffen wouldn't count it as a new album. Mistake on every count. The performance was brilliant. Henley was hot. Geffen would have sold multimillions. Henley should have done it anyway. For in the process of arguing about it, he missed his window. Not only was he less hot, everybody else had released stuff from "Unplugged", so he would have looked like a me-too instead of an innovator. 23. Innovation does NOT count if it's a purely technical thing. Being the first to Webcast, to release a DVD, fucking irrelevant, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Furthermore, frequently most consumers don't have the technical infrastructure to experience said "First". 24. Marry your high school sweetheart, not a model or an actress. (Jon Bon Jovi got MUCHO points for this, if only his music were more credible and he shucked that jive nice guy act. But Eddie Vedder, he did it right.) 25. Don't be afraid to break a commitment if it doesn't feel right. This is VERY complicated. They say it's like the circus, the show must go on. But if you bail because it's not right, it can really enhance your credibility in the long run... The best example BEING "Long May You Run". Neil Young cancelled a tour with Stephen Stills in support of the album containing that track after only a few gigs, saying it didn't feel right to him. He looked like an asshole, but it showed he had integrity, which led ultimately to credibility. And today, Stephen Stills is a joke, and Neil Young still has his credibility. 26. Don't do the title song for a movie. I know, I know...such GREAT promotion. First, who the fuck knows how good the movie is going to be??? Second, you're only doing it if you think there's going to be a lot of promotion, and it's this same promotion that erodes your credibility. If you're truly credible, your music sells itself. The constant exposure/sell turns people off. 27. Don't ACT! Whether it be in a movie or on television. And HEAVEN FORBID, don't appear playing on some TV show. 28. Charge reasonable ticket fees. You don't have to be the cheapest, just fair. Today, under thirty bucks is fair. Over forty certainly is not. And, if you're charging a cheap price, PUBLICIZE how much the ticket fee is. So the blame doesn't rest on you. Oh, Ticketmaster won't like this, but this is an issue that's about to boil over, you can be the first. And they're still getting their money, they've got no right to complain, and ultimately won't. 29. Never play a venue you can't sell out. 30. Never appear as an opening act. (Not something you can't recover from, but it should be avoided.) 31. Never physically assault a woman. You're history after this. Just ask Jackson Browne. 32. Don't do drugs just to be cool. The rock star on heroin is SUCH a cliche, that to say you're avoiding it helps your credibility. 33. Don't follow TRENDS! If you're a rocker, don't rap, do a dance track, or do whatever's happening now. It's a shortcut sometimes to cash, but it really devastates your career. (Classic example: Rod Stewart "Da Ya Think I'm Sexy?)" 34. Be mean/fuck up to ANYBODY on TV. Everybody knows these people are sucking at the corporate tit and are phony. When you act real and give shit to Kurt Loder, the news chicks (and that's what Serena and her buds appear to be), Carson Daly, Letterman, Leno, you look like you can't be bought and don't play the game, and that's the ESSENCE of credibility. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I'm not going to respond to every single point in this, 'cuz, darn it, I'm busy eating spaghetti right now! In general, I think it has some good comments. These are of course guidelines, and I am sure that soon this thread will be filled with people citing exceptions. However, I think that for the most part, it's pretty much on. 'Course, I've thought Bob's been pretty cool for a while, anyway... ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff "Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available! http://www.elevenshadows.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 In general, rules suck. In rock & roll, rules are pathetic, and should be ignored at all cost. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Craig (and Bob) - This is priceless! I love it! When I read the part about "Don't do Behind the Music", it reminded me of last week when I was mixing this great local band Orange Hat. The band's two frontmen/founders have been best friends since high school, married their high school sweethearts, don't do any drugs, and prefer an idyllic life in the country to the playboy rocker lifestyle. In short, they defy all the stereotypes about rock bands. So last week when one of them was over doing this mixing session, he was saying how they wanted to do a fake "Behind the Music" episode that was really boring. It would show the two of them meeting in high school: "Hi, I'm David!" "Hi David, I'm Chris!" "Cool man! Let's go hang out and listen to records." ... insert dramatic music and slow motion graphics... Narrator: "But life was never easy for Orange Hat, and they soon hit rock bottom!" [shot of the band hanging out on their front porch] David: "Well, we were really broke, and we couldn't get a record deal. We were desperate, so we just stayed home with our wives and hung out and listened to some tunes." Chris: "Yeah, we had no money and our career was going nowhere, and we didn't know what else to do. So we got, like, jobs and stuff. And then we just sort of booked some gigs at some clubs and went and played our songs, and then it was cool." LOL... boy, this credibility thing is a tough sell! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK_dup2 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Bob That is very nice. This obviously is the Utopia list. Many of these points are wonderful. - but in reality most musicians I know feel "pinched" by the industry to put out the fast food record because God knows you woun't be around tomorrow. If there was a sense of career developement from some of the big conglomerates then I think this list could be a reality. I personally think it's the tits..... BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throatsinger Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Hey, that's cool, Craig. But don't I haveta score some credibility before I can maintain it? Steve Sklar Steve Sklar http://khoomei.com http://www.bigskyrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 i disagree with most of it. first of all metallicka has NO credibility now, not that they had a lot before the whole napster thing, their band went down the shitter after Clif died anyways. im not even going to go into some other points. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Walters Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 How to keep your credibility: 1. Do good work. 2. Don't rip off your fans. 3. Be true to yourself, whether that means going on stage in flannel and jeans or dressing up as a marigold. 4. Ignore fashion, lifestyle, and career advice from self-appointed credibility police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Tim said: >>Be true to yourself, whether that means going on stage in flannel and jeans or dressing up as a marigold. HAHAHAHA...I think in kindergarten I had to dress up as a piece of broccoli once. Where'd I put the costume? Oh...it's underneath the pile of flannel and jeans. I like what Tim said...because it works on any level. Credibility is relative. For each of those items in the article that Bob said wrecked credibility, it improved credibility for a certain number of fans. I don't have VH1 or "M"TV beating a path to my door, so I'll just take Tim's advice and apply it on a local level (to wife): "TELL THAT LODER GUY TO GO AWAY AND QUIT RINGING MY DOORBELL!!!" Freakin' salesmen... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Credibility is selling out a 35 seat venue in a pop. 1200 town, actually sweating on stage, getting booed when you sing off key 'cause you've got stage fright. And at the end of the show selling a !cassette! tape to everyone in the room. Julian M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 cassette? whats that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 1. Be yourself 2. Be honest 3. Be kind 4. Do your best work at all times - even when no one's looking 5. Treat others as you'd like to be treated - with dignity and respect. 6. be a person of unquestionable integrity. 7. Have fun and don't take yourself too seriously. I think that would pretty much cover it for me... Now if I could just measure up to my own standards... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Nice article Craig - thanks for sharing it with us. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html email: pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by coaster: cassette? whats that? Well, "ette" is (I believe) a dimunitive in French, as in small or femimmine. So a "cassette" would be a small cass. Right? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html email: pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Sometimes labeled in patchbays as K7 (Ka Sept) Julian M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerySoon Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Who's Bob? My uncle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I'm amazed by alpha's comments, considering his usual stance on most things corporate. ??? Also: Sure, there's a backlash against Metallica for their Napster stand I love how they use that as "the" reason. They lost all credibility [with the true fans that had supported them from the start] when they did the black album. The metallica backlash started there and was truly complete when Load came out. Metallica's credibility left when there integrity did. Anyway, I agree with most of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Ani Di Franco. I was a small club engineer in Durham, NC (the Pied to Alpha's Mont) and Ms. DiFranco showed up to play a gig. She pulled up in a crappy car, loaded in her own gear (admittedly only an acoustic), completely mesmerized a room of punk fans, then drove on to the next town. Incredible. julian m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Phil said: >>Well, "ette" is (I believe) a dimunitive in French, as in small or femimmine. So a "cassette" would be a small cass. Right? Have yet to see a small Cass. The one that was famous in the sixties was rather large. She sang well, though...and as of late has been joined by her former bandmate. Rest easy, Cass and John. Loved your harmonies. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 hey craig what ever happened to lefsetz's forum anyway... i miss it too many rules though... <<6. Don't wear any clothes on stage that people wouldn't wear on the street.>> i guess that rules out the (in their heyday) credibility of james brown, solomon burke, little richard, prince, david bowie, patti labelle, etc.. <<21. Don't record a whole concert and sell it to MTV, VH1 or HBO. But you CAN make a movie and have it play in theatres. Sure, fewer people will see it, but those who do, will TESTIFY!>> yeah i can testify to how bad led zep's "song remains the same" movie was after i had to wait in line for a midnight show, pay a whopping 5 bucks, and see my favorite band totally suck! <<22. Don't do "Storytellers". If you've got credibility, this only works if you're on the upswing/one of the first. Classic example. Don Henley wanted to release an album of his "Unplugged". But Geffen wouldn't count it as a new album. Mistake on every count. The performance was brilliant. Henley was hot. Geffen would have sold multimillions. Henley should have done it anyway. For in the process of arguing about it, he missed his window. Not only was he less hot, everybody else had released stuff from "Unplugged", so he would have looked like a me-too instead of an innovator.>> sorry but don henley and credibility don't belong in the same sentence. let me count the ways...bad 70's eagles perm hairdo, selling "peaceful, easy, feeling" image, while banging underage girls and snorting half of peru, reuniting the eagles.... as mojo nixon once sang-- "don henley must die, don't let him get back together with glen frey!" <<26. Don't do the title song for a movie. I know, I know...such GREAT promotion. First, who the fuck knows how good the movie is going to be??? Second, you're only doing it if you think there's going to be a lot of promotion, and it's this same promotion that erodes your credibility. If you're truly credible, your music sells itself. The constant exposure/sell turns people off.>> the dickies doing the theme to "killer clowns from outer space" didn't affect their credibilty much, nor did the ramones doing "rock and roll high school".... <<27. Don't ACT! Whether it be in a movie or on television. And HEAVEN FORBID, don't appear playing on some TV show.>> um, john lurie, tom waits? sorry, as rules go you aren't credible any more. as, for tv i assume we're talking drama i.e. austin city limits is OK? and what about hee haw? sat night live? letterman? back to film.. what about the incidental scene in the 60's film "blow up" with the yardbirds playing "train kept a rolling/stroll on" (with page & beck together)...don't think that hurt their credibilty <<30. Never appear as an opening act.>> yeah right! "sorry guys, but we ain't gonna play the festival unless the stones and springsteen and the reunited 3 remaining beatles go on BEFORE us!" <<31. Never physically assault a woman. You're history after this. Just ask Jackson Browne.>> i agree, however, if you're bonnie raitt, it's ok to punch a drunk angry man saying bad things about ray charles. just ask elvis costello! rule number 1: don't even think about being a musician! quit playing right now and get a job at a gas station and do it very well. make a career of pumping that gas. this way your credibility will never come under scrutiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted March 30, 2001 Author Share Posted March 30, 2001 I think about the credibility thing from time to time, because here I am, a certified Old Guy, playing in Europe to people who could be my kids. I don't shave my head, have tattoos, wear a nose ring, wear baggy pants, uze funny spellingz, or do E on a regular basis, yet I've been accepted by people who do. I always expected that someone would look at me at say "Fraud! What the hell are you doing here?" but that never happened. And I realized why: because I don't try to be hip. I don't try to fit in. People respect the fact that I have no shame about being a Dork! Ultimately, what people respond to is the one thing that I think is paramount, yet isn't on Bob's list: LOVE WHAT YOU DO. I was playing at a club in Switzerland with Dr. Walker and Wulfmanson, and the owner came up to me and said "I don't get it, you don't fit in with these guys...you look like you should own a software company or something." He wasn't being vicious, just puzzled. But when we started playing, he grasped that I love this music, I love what I do, and whether I'm "hip" or not doesn't matter...put a guitar or synth in my hands, and that's all the matters to me. And really, it should be all that matters to the audience. To be credible, be true to yourself, and the rest will follow. I'd like to thank Bob again for letting me post this, I think it's creating a healthy discussion. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpantsswbell.net Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Most of you probably don't know about a band called At the Drive In. They were set to be BIG shit ( Spin, RS, MTV, critical darlings ) They went on "indefinite hiatus" as of Wednesday. Why? Because they actually followed those rules. This is a band who embodied the word "integrity", and instead of watch the integrity they had built slip away, they decided to bow out. If you get the chance, check out their album, "Relationship of Command". It's on Grand Royal & it's the only thing I've heard in the last 5 years that actually excited me and seemed like something new. And, no, this isn't a criticism of the list, because I whole-heartedly agree with everything on it. my .02 Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeVW Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: i agree, however, if you're bonnie raitt, it's ok to punch a drunk angry man saying bad things about ray charles. just ask elvis costello! Uhh, I believe that was Bonnie Bramlett, not Bonnie. Just setting the record straight. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Craig, I agree. Love what you do. Not that you'll always like everything that's involved with your chosen career, but if you by and large love what you do, it will come out in the music. And if you don't, if it's pretentious at all, that will be audible for those who care to listen. I think that this "honesty" can be heard in great music. I like to say that music performed by people who love what they're doing "rings true". It may not be hip, or the flavor du jour, but if it's honest, at least YOU can take satisfaction in it, and maybe others will too. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html email: pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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