Uh Clem Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 Follow on to: http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000947.html John, I tried to repeat what you did and the results are quite different (and I apologize for butchering your riff, but I'm lousy at getting a part right by ear - sounds like I should've used the Gm7 now that I listen back - yes I think): For 1&2 below, the mics are set about where you said, I'm using a Grace Lunatec 2 mic pre into a DAP1 DAT deck, and recording a Steinway Model L full stick with the music desk off. It is noticeably darker than your recording - what type of Piano did you record? What type of Pres and Recorder. Did you have the Pad in on the 4050? I had to pad mine at that close a range to the strings. 1) This is with the same setup you suggested: http://www.bullmoondigital.com/audio/pianoSJP2.mp3 2) This is similar but with two AKG414-B/ULS mics: http://www.bullmoondigital.com/audio/pianoSJP3.mp3 3) This is a completely different setup and is a bit of a trick Q - anyone want to guess at this one? http://www.bullmoondigital.com/audio/pianoSJP1.mp3 I like the MP3 recorded at 320K - I think it is quite usable and accurate for discussion purposes, if a bit lofi. A full tune might get a bit large though. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 7, 2001 Author Share Posted March 7, 2001 So I went back and tried this again today with a TC Gold channel going digital into the DAP1. This made a huge difference. I also tried KM184s spaced and XY'd both about 6in off the hammers. I kind of like the XY better. The KM184s, at least for this Steinway L, seem better - a little brighter. XY up near the lid is also nice but not quite as much definition - smoother and less percussive which could be OK for some material - not this little riff though. I'm thinking the DAP1s analog ins and maybe the converts suck (big surprise). Going in digital was a giant help. I got rumble from me moving around on the bench sitting down that kicks up my sub - so I'm getting everything now. I need to try the Grace into a decent converter tomorrow to see how it does that way. Anyway, I think the Piano, and the analog path into the converters made much more difference than mic choices/placement so far. Although, I do like the KM184s and then the AKGs over the 58/4050 combo. If I was really going for the best sound I'd roll off some lows on the mics (AKGs) or pre (KM184). I'll spare posting these for now unless someone really wants to hear the difference. This message has been edited by stevepow on 03-06-2001 at 10:13 PM Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Uh, Steve? *raising hand* That'll be me!! I'd like to hear the difference. Thanx! Nika. For more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 7, 2001 Author Share Posted March 7, 2001 OK, that'll be tomorrow's project and I'll put the Grace stuff up too with a good converter. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 8, 2001 Author Share Posted March 8, 2001 Here's the link to several versions of this I did today: http://www.bullmoondigital.com/audio/ I did the spaced configuration as well as an XY up a bit higher and also another setup I read about in MIX recently with one mic at the curve facing in toward the player and another at the foot facing directly in toward the player. This was used on several pianos celebrating the 300th aniversary of the piano. I prefer the XY and Mid/Foot setups with the KM184s for my piano. I'm not sure about the pres - the Grace seems a little warmer and plain; similar to an API3124 perhaps. The difference made by adding the TC converter was dramatic - for those wondering about the merits of a good converter with a good analog stage, this should be a convincing exercise, quite noticeable even on MP3 files. This message has been edited by stevepow on 03-08-2001 at 12:47 AM Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 steve, both your channels have dc offset [piano2] while johns only had offset on the right. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 9, 2001 Author Share Posted March 9, 2001 Originally posted by alphajerk: steve, both your channels have dc offset [piano2] while johns only had offset on the right. Well, I wasn't trying to do that for effect http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif - I should have checked and fixed it I was kinda rushing thru it - another DA-P1 articfact? I don't usually see that - how much did you see and how? Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 it was on the left on johns i mean. ive actually been going through a bunch of tracks after i saw yours with it too and noticed just about all of them have slight dc offset [-0.003 to -0.009] to tell you the truth, i have no idea how it gets there. bsaically the zero point isnt at 0 but rather -.003 maybe. i wish i had a piano to play this game but its given me some ideas to play around with for other kinds. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 9, 2001 Author Share Posted March 9, 2001 most of the software I have won't even detect or fix that low of "DC offet". I've seen it before and used to worry about it, but I don't think it really matters at that amount. This message has been edited by stevepow on 03-09-2001 at 02:24 AM Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 i dont know if it even needs fixing. i have a plug in DP that supposedly corrects it but i cant tell a difference. cool edit is where im seeing it in the statistics. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 9, 2001 Author Share Posted March 9, 2001 yep - I found it - .003% or something in the right on one, the left on another - I can take it out with wavelab, but for this little test, I think it's OK. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayers Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Sorry Stevepow for not getting back - My puter went down and I had to get some updates etc. Look, FYI I recorded the mikes flat (no pad) into a DA7 at 24bit/48khz and then into Nuendo. I took the track from nuendo into Wavelab, edited out the small section I wanted and then saved it as an MP3 file using wavelab. Obviously had I shifted the mikes the sound would have been different but not necessarily more definitive of the mics. I just found myself in the situation of only having two mikes (Our others are on order) and wanting to see what the piano sounded like. When I compared the only two mikes I had I thought it would make an interesting post. That's all. cheers John Studio Design Forum Studios Under Construction Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 9, 2001 Author Share Posted March 9, 2001 It was interesting - thanks for the follow-up. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 9, 2001 Author Share Posted March 9, 2001 BTW, how are liking Nuendo? What kind of system do you run it on? Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayers Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 We have a PIII 866 with 384 ram, a DA7 with 2 lightport slots into a Nuendo RME Hammerfall card, Genelec 1084A's and Active Event 20/20 as nearfield. Didn't like the Genelecs initially as they sounded a bit harsh up against the 20/20s but I realise now it's the 20/20s that are soft. The more I work the genelecs the more I like them. I like nuendo - it has some excellent features like the effect/eq modules and the nuendo effects are really cool. The VST engine is great, reliable and user friendly but I hate the colours and reckon it's time some smart programmer (lee?) started selling skins for DAW programs. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif To be perfectly honest I'm waiting for Sonar, it looks like it will have all the goods but maybe that's only dreaming as I suspect it'll still have flaws also. cheers john Studio Design Forum Studios Under Construction Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted March 10, 2001 Author Share Posted March 10, 2001 Well that's my problem - I'm trying to find a way not to go to Protools. I use Wavelab a lot and find it tremendously handy and dependable - I sih it's Montage mode would let me record multi-track - so something like that prgram I think would be great. I try to use Cakewalk and find it klunky and buggy. So, even at the upgrade "by before April" price, I'm not sure I want to go there. Just wondering if you think Nuendo is solid as Wavelab is. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 steve, just get DP and a Mac with some motu interfaces. with your O2R and your outboard, it would rock! you HAVE to experience pure HD recording. you will never use tape again [as long as you be good and save and backup] alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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