miroslav Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 I've been working on my studio re-mod, and just looking at all this "stuff"...processors, pres, mics, computers, software...I've started reminiscing. I kinda' miss those young, naive days when I didn't give a shit about... bits or bytes; ...unless the screen door was left open. the size of the diaphragm or if it was gold sputtered; ...ah...as long it wasn't forgotten. what the maximum "allowable" cable run was; ...hey, it's connected at both ends, OK, lets jam! if the reverb had stereo inputs; ...just having a reverb was great, "Way down inside, WOMAN, you need LOOOOOVVVVVE". how many plug-ins I could run simultaneously; ...the fuse didn't blow, plug in another one man. the size of my drive and if was "scuzzy"; ...it was never "scuzzy". MIDI; ...why the hell do I want to connect my guitar to my keyboard anyway? if my board had any digital I/O; ...I just need one more mic input! I mean, we just rolled tape and played and played and played... The focus was on the playing, the melodies, the harmonies, and the interaction of instruments. Most editing was just doing another take, hell, we enjoyed playing so much, what was wrong with doing another take??? Now, this isn't another analog vs digital bitch, and all these new exciting toys we have today...well, I love playin' with them! Man now I could edit out a SINGLE bad note...WOW! But somehow, it feels more tedious these days...recording. The detailed involvement is almost overwhelming, and often you "can't see the forest for the trees". Then there is the whole software thing, the intangibility of it, well...it just ain't there! My eyes are blown from staring at computer monitors and my hands/wrists/forearms/shoulders are killing me from RSI (repetitive stress injury) and then there is my damn back! I remember those Saturday afternoons, when you could lay down a half-a-dozen tunes, and they all sounded GREAT...well maybe it was the herbs...but man we had fun, and there was something good about being young and blissfully ignorant! miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuri T. Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 I've started a new project recently. Wearing the guitar and engineer hats at the same time. We're just trying for a quick demo. so i've got the sounds good to tape, roll it and we just play the song together. Minimum overdubbage. You know what, I bring up the faders, get a rough mix and it sounds better musically than the 1 year production with all the overdubs, second guessing, retracking etc. Reminds me that a band playing together is what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 On some of my newer stuff I just recently abondened midi/loops ect. and just started overdubbing all my parts the old fashioned way,brings back memories. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 Know what you mean Miroslav... although, I've tried to keep things as simple as possible around here so I can still focus on the creativity. Not only gear-wise, but philosophy-wise. I'd still rather take something over than edit note by note. I don't use any loops or sequencing or tedious technical stuff like that. I've bought quite a bit of gear recently but still tried to avoid a serious case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome, which not only messes up your bank account but dealing with all that gear can really crimp your style as well if you're not careful. But I guess that's exactly what you're saying. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif So, uh... yeah, everybody, what Miroslav said. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny G Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 Well, leave the technical stuff to the engineers. With the cost of building a home studio being so low many former musicians are trying their hands are being engineers. Why? Just get a simple setup that works and use it for recording ideas. When you want track, find an engineer and go for it. Someone out here in Nashville had a great quote a few months ago. It had to do with all the producers opening home studios and the big studios losing business. It went something like, "Just because someone stays in a lot of hotels, doesn't mean they should get into the hotel business." I'm an engineer, it's my job to worry about bit rate, converters, hard disks, software, plug-in's, I am a nerd, I am a geek, I should be wearing a lab coat, let me worry about it. . .you guys just make music. Thanks for letting me rant. ------------------ Tiny G Tiny G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 I rarely get caught up in the fine details when I write. I just plug in and record. I may punch-in and out but I do it manually and just try to let the music flow. I use a Sansamp PSA-1 and Bass Pod so I just turn some knobs, set my levels and record. Sometimes I feel like micing my Hot Rod Deluxe and adjusting the mics and compressor, but I really love the freedom of direct recording. I unplugged my MIDI cables and sequencer a couple of weeks ago. I was getting into a rut and was relying too much on it. Guess what, it's very liberating ! I never used editing and quantizing anyway(except in my drum machine) but still it can make you lazy. I sometimes wish sequencers didn't allow you to loop things. It CAN create bad habits if you allow it to control your music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted February 28, 2001 Author Share Posted February 28, 2001 Originally posted by SteveRB: ...I unplugged my MIDI cables and sequencer a couple of weeks ago...very liberating !... Tell the truth, you were scared to do it at first...like mom was going to come in and yell at you..."Leave those cables alone Johnny, didn't your father tell you NEVER to unplug the sequencer!" But now...YEAH...I can fly...I don't need no stinkin' sequencer! I'm with you man, less is more! miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 Miroslav, when I start to get techno-saturated usually I'm just really tired. Get some sleep. Emile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 Miroslav - I'm with you 100% on this one - maybe we're all just getting old. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Loved the post. Very funny and poginant. I have / like / use the new high tech toys, and I think the key is using them only when appropriate. Hey, if it's quicker / easier / better to do a new take, by all means DO IT! If on the other hand you have a "once in a lifetime" take with just ONE bad note (or whatever) save it and try re-taking it anyway. Still can't top it the old fashoned way? THEN use the new toys to get it fixed. Judicious and responsible use is what I'm advocating here. Anyone remember the saying "everything in moderation?" Unfortunately (IMO) many of us who engineer for a living and many musicians in general now expect to use the tools on everything, and whole projects are cut / pasted / sausaged together, instead of featuring real, impassioned performances. I think that sometimes we engineers are really to blame. Clients come in to a studio and book time - but they're not really ready to be in a studio - either from lack of talent, lack of experience, lack of preperation, whatever. But hey, they're paying for it, and most studios really can use the work, right? So the gig is accepted, and the client has high expectations - they heard how great you made that other band sound... Well, now you're on the hook and you have to deliver. Never mind that "that other band" had great sounding instruments and they knew how to use them, this current band is expecting similar results. So you're stuck - only way out? Autotune / edit / fix fix fix!!! That's kinda sad if you ask me. I try to avoid this whenever possible. I take much more time to talk to potential clients than is customary in this industry. I want them to have a good idea of what to expect before coming in. Costs me time (and time is money) but I find that I'm building relationships here, and people appreciate the help and honesty. Just some random thoughts... Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html email: pokeefe777@msn.com This message has been edited by pokeefe777@msn.com on 02-28-2001 at 09:52 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted February 28, 2001 Author Share Posted February 28, 2001 Originally posted by emile@passeport.qc.ca: Miroslav, when I start to get techno-saturated usually I'm just really tired. Get some sleep. Emile Emile, that's my other problem, I'm not techno-saturated ...I love this stuff(a recovering gear-slut)...can't get enough! I was just thinking of those early, "simpler" days of my recording world. Back then, you took a mic, put it up, and go! Now I need to know what kind of capsule, the thickness of the diaphragm, noise level,... Not that it's bad to want to know more,...I'm always learnin'. I just sometimes wonder if I really need "this information"? We are all victims of "keeping up with the technology". Sometimes I just want to...go primitive baby!!! miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 I noticed a couple of years ago that as my gear inventory increased, my output decreased. I've streamlined my studio, and now things are happening again. Here are a few thoughts on the idea of studio streamlining. 1 - Decide what you REALLY need and get rid of the rest. If I hooked up ever piece of gear I owned, I'd choke a 72-input console. But by hooking up only what I need for a project, a much more modest setup will work. 2 - Arrange gear within easy reach. 3 - Get rid of troublesome gear. Replace it with easy to use gear. TC Electronic is my favorite. 4 - Record on a dedicated device rather than a computer. I love computers, but they require too much of my focus when I'm trying to create. I use a computer mostly to develop the basic MIDI arrangement, then turn it off after the parts have been tracked to the AW4416. 5 - Keep objectives clear and avoid bottlenecks. I like to sit in a quiet room and write a checklist of what I want to accomplish before I go into the studio. This helps keep me focused during the session. 6 - Use only as much gear as is necessary. If I can do it all on one keyboard, great. As a rule, I don't turn on every piece of gear I own, just the Mac, mixer, main keyboard, a module or two, and I keep my bass close by. Cuts down on the electric bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I did an article for EQ on simplifying my studio. I came to the rather surprising conclusion that my problem was not enough technology, rather than too much technology. Since I've started to really exploit the technology, life has been made simpler. The key is to recognize that there is pre-production, and there is production. I spend a lot of time getting my ducks in a row so that when it comes time to record, everything's ready to rock in a nice, efficient way. Take loop-based music. It takes me a long time to find or create the right collection of loops. But after they're assembled, it's time to just press record and slam faders. If it works, fine. If not, I redo. If some of it's fine and some isn't, I edit. Simple. I've listened recently to some music I did back in the 4-track days - it was really fun to do, but man, I wish I had the drum sounds back then that I have now. And the signal-to-noise ratio... Progress happens. Being able to control that progress is key, and the suggestions here indicate how people come to terms with the problem. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisencocasema.net Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Yes, I like this one: keep it simple and have fun. Having to many options is a problem for lots of people. When making music, it's best to forget about the tools. The tools are just tools. Just 2 days ago I hooked up my old Yamaha QY10 sequencer (it's like VHS-size) which I used as my main sequencer for fooling around. I was listening to some old songs. I loved it. Some of the sounds are nice (the QY10 is very simple, you can only pan left, right or middle). BUT I couldn't understand how I could work with it. It's so small! The program which blew me away was ACID. Because I could start working without thinking about things to much. Ofcourse they main thing with ACID is that you're using loops which have a vibe. That's a problem with some MIDI tracks you'll all use. They are just notes with a feel. Mixing loops is: notes, timing, sound, noise and more. It has soul! I find the most simple solution to all this: buy a keyboard which feels good. Maybe it sounds funny but I love piano like keys. I like the feel of big keys! When I start recording I really swing it with these keys. I'm using a Roland RD-200 right now by the way. Drawing notes can be nice, but for feel: play it nice. I'm using a LM-4 drumcomputer right now. And yes my lantency is not that low (28 milli), but I can record it 'live'. So: why not stop using MIDI? You can record everything as audio. You will not be able to tweak the notes. But the track will have a vibe. Record with effects, so the vibe will be there for the beginning. Nowadays we have a lot more options and we're more flexible. But some recordings made in one room, which every instrument leaking true all mics sound better to me. I love The Beatles and I love old Jazz, Samba and Cuban records. They have a vibe and they are done quickly. Well, Prince his early days were very nice as well. I heard his voice distortm, but I love the sound. Swing is man, groove like a maniac, we not talking science here, we making music! -- Greetings, Virtual Raapie ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman1ovation.net Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Originally posted by Tiny G: Well, leave the technical stuff to the engineers. With the cost of building a home studio being so low many former musicians are trying their hands are being engineers. Why? Just get a simple setup that works and use it for recording ideas. When you want track, find an engineer and go for it. Someone out here in Nashville had a great quote a few months ago. It had to do with all the producers opening home studios and the big studios losing business. It went something like, "Just because someone stays in a lot of hotels, doesn't mean they should get into the hotel business." I'm an engineer, it's my job to worry about bit rate, converters, hard disks, software, plug-in's, I am a nerd, I am a geek, I should be wearing a lab coat, let me worry about it. . .you guys just make music. Thanks for letting me rant. Well, man, that is my DREAM. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif The idea of being able to concentrate on nothing but music and then, when the time came, to have someone who knows how to record it. Thing is, I have no idea how to put that together. I mean, ideally, I'd go ahead and make use of my home studio for actual recording, because it has equipment and a decent sound (acoustically). Right now I've been trying to decide how to bring things more in line with MY ability to use the equipment (meaning digital sound but very analog-like way of using it), but I do dream of just making very basic demos for myself... not worrying about sound quality at all, and just doing it so I'd know what would happen in the studio... and then finding an engineer that can translate my playing and whoever else I have on the sessions into something solid. Seems like in the end, much more would get done, but it is very hard to find an engineer at the "project" level. What I mean is that virtually all project-level engineers seem to be musicians who do it because they have to. My experience (and I have to admit it is dated) is that most engineers are at the commercial facility level... meaning 2" machines and huge automated boards. A lot of those guys wouldn't know where to start with computer based project studio equipment. Any ideas on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 >> My experience (and I have to admit it is dated) is that most engineers are at the commercial facility level... meaning 2" machines and huge automated boards. A lot of those guys wouldn't know where to start with computer based project studio equipment. Any ideas on this? ------------------------------------ Yes. Sorry to disagree with you, but in my experience, most engineers at the commercial facility level know how to operate both, and have for quite some time. ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff "Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available! http://www.elevenshadows.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman1ovation.net Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: Sorry to disagree with you, but in my experience, most engineers at the commercial facility level know how to operate both, and have for quite some time. Don't apologize, man. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif I did say my information was dated. Guess it's a little more dated than I thought. Thing is, back from 1972-1978 (I started my project studio in 1978), the commercial facilities went on to $250.00 per hour, and they had all the top dollar equipment and sound. And initially, the "semi-pro" studio (1/2" 8-track Tascam, etc.) were very sonically different, even though a very decent demo, or even odd master with special circumstances, could be gleaned from those surroundings. When digital came into the picture in mass quantities (ADAT invasion w/inexpensive digital F/X, MIDI & computer integration), the commercial studios here held there high tech analog or DASH digital ground. After a while they started stocking a few ADATs and/or Tascam-type modular tape machines to attract people who were tracking in project studios but needed to take the mix and post production further. Even in the mid 90s, that was still mostly a hardware thing. Some of these places would have their A-room like that, but built what amounted to an on-site project studio with full MIDI. Still, though, the A-rooms often stuck to large format, large mic trunks, and TOP dollar Lexicons to go along with their "vintage" concrete reverb rooms. The A-rooms were still slow to have a PC in their loop. Here we are, six years later, and I am sure that all NEW engineers are expected to be fully schooled MIDI/digital audio/computer nerds in addition to having some old school skills. I'm wondering how many new engineers can still edit with a razor blade? Is it even necessary? I do know that many people still choose to at least keep the multi-track master analog on their records. But where does the musician-come-"engineer" go to find a natural MIDI/digital audio whiz to run their well-equipped project studio of twenty years? I am sure you are right that the current commercial studio engineers know this stuff, but they are working in top dollar environments. What if someone has a 16 MIDI port, 24-32 track digital audio based partly on hardware (ADAT) and partly software/hardware (Pro Tools Project, for instance), with lots of outboard, etc., and wants someone to take over the tech side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmfsc.edu Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 They could hire me! HEH! Seriously, there's a lot of us guys out there. The problem with project studios is that they're just that, project studios. I would love to do audio only - I want SO BADLY to have my own studio or work at a studio where I'm an audio engineer. Alas, I need to pay my bills and Massachusetts doesn't have a huge studio market that needs engineers. So I have a 9-5 where I'm a video producer/director/editor as well as the resident Pro Tools TDM guru. A lot of you guys also have 9-5's and use your project studios on weekends/nights when you have some time. I have no problem with doing a mix over a few nights or on a weekend, but you wouldn't get me to leave my 9-5 unless you could offer me 40Hrs a week of work at my current income level. My life outside of work is what I'm really working for, if that makes any sense. I like spending time with my wife, so yaknow, doing 40/week here and 40/week at a project studio kind of saps all the energy and I think I'd be headed for the big D-I-V-O-R-C-E Perhaps fear of spreading ourselves too thin is what keeps competent engineers out of the project studios? Did I just babble without making a point? Dan Roth Otitis Media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted March 23, 2001 Author Share Posted March 23, 2001 It might be difficult to get high end engineers intrested in project studio work...but you might not need high end engineers. It might make sense to partner with someone who posses similar skills/interests or totaly opposite to compliment yours. Take turns wearing the musician/engineer/producer hats. I would really love to hook up with another person or even two that: 1)Had similar goals and focus. 2)Possesed strong knowledge/experince in similar or complimentary areas. 3)Had a decent amount of equipment to add to the pot. Working alone is OK...but you develop tunnel vision and all of a sudden you start trying to grow another set of hands and tryin' to wear too many hats. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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