Musicplayer going bye bye?

[dansouth]

"At the grotto in the greasy chair sits the Charlie with the lotion and the kinky hair."

 

"I am another gentleman loser/Drive me to Harlem or somwhere the same."

 

"Ain't never gonna do it without the Fez on, oh no!"

 

"He has a scar across his face, he wears a hearing aid."

 

"I don't want to do you dirty work no more."

 

"Could it be that I have found my home at last?"

 

Anybody know the source of the title "Aja" or its meaning?

[Guest]

At least I finally know what the f**k this thread is about.....

 

 

"Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl,

 

You turned it on the world,

 

That's when you turned the world around.

 

Did you feel like Jesus,

 

Did you realise,

 

That you were a champion in their eyes"?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

KHANz

[Eric Worthington]

I have always LOVED Steely Dan. I used to play Countdown to Ecstasy, Katy Lied and Royal Scam all the time. And then Aja came out, which was excitedly added to the rotation. What these albums all had in common was great songs, with spirited, inspired, sometimes kick-ass arrangements. Some of the best guitar solos in rock are on Dan records.

 

But the new album just doesn't have the same level of songwriting. All of the songs are all equally "good." But none of them are "great." It's like taking your least favorite track off each album and putting them all together. This are no standout songs. And I never feel inspired to put on the disc. The new Paul Simon album is perhaps a little disappointing, but it still has several truly great songs on it, ones that are up there with the best of his work. I can't say the same for Two Against Nature.

 

It's (boy do I hate to say this) .....boring.

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by JohnBartus:

 

2) The songs are far from dull. Fagen & Becker are far superior tunesmiths than just about anyone else making popular music. No one else even comes close to forming complicated chord progressions and jazz changes into actual melodies you can sing in your head. The lyrics may be too subtle for people brought up on "Fuck tha bitch, kill tha cops," but there are actual stories contained within, not just swagger and braggadocio.

 

There's a line between clever and stupid...FWIW, I thought they should have called the album "We're only in it for the money"...Of course that's a "Mothers" album...but most folk wouldn't remember that. Have you ever listened to a copy of "Kid A"? Maybe I just don't like 'more of the same' on a continual basis. Obviously, I'm in the minority...but last I heard 'minorities are good'.

 

As far as "tunesmithing" goes, there are several far, far superior 'tunesmiths' from that bygone era. Unfortunately, they had the presence of mind to die and get out of the way. Somebody was going on about the 'clever Steely Dan lyrics'...you can find that in damn near any song. From Lowell George, to Frank Zappa, to Tommy Bolin, to Jim Morrison, to so many other truly outstanding songwriters and lyricists...I found many of the lyrics interesting pictures at best...perhaps I missed the spiritual meaning so embraced by the legions of Merlot sipping Stock Brokers that feel so "enlightened" by that spew (though Merlot sipping Stock Brokers are more than entitled to be entertained, their entertainment choices should not be rammed down my throat by a pack of lazy jive assed 'record mooks' who are way too fuckin' lazy to actually listen to the legions of seriously cool music that has been released by an ever increasing list of 'independant labels').

 

I wasn't brought up on 'fuck the bitch', I was brought up on "I am just a vagabond, a drifter on the run, and eloquent profanity, it rolls right off my tongue"...shit like that. Exactly who the fuck do you think votes on this shit? As a "Voting Member" of Naras I'm pretty damned embarassed.

It's mostly white men over 40. It's mostly "record industry mooks". The same guys that brought you the "hits" in the 70's and 80's are the same guys that are bringing them to you now. There is a different set of A&R weasels on a regular basis...but the "heads" of the A&R departments, the Presidents, Vice Presidents, etc. are all the fucking same...they don't change, there's no reason to change.

 

Every now and again a label comes along and out of sheer misguidance does something interesting. Maverick, Sub Pop, Def Jam, Def American...and what happens? They start to make a rise, and get swallowed by a "major"...that almost instantly 'sanitizes it for our protection' (OK, Maverick started on Reprise, which is Warners...but the fact of the matter was that Reprise was a poor bastard cousin of the mothership until only a few years ago).

While you may not like the music or the message, I have to give a lot of respect for the early "Death Row" releases...at least they weren't afraid to challenge the status quo [of course now they are the new 'status quo'].

I am fortunatley in a vocationally wonderful position as our store's clients tend to be from, or signed to "indie labels". I get reams of cool shit on a regular basis. Cool shit that I wouldn't ahve found unless I made a serious effort to find...and damn few of us expend the effort to turn over the necessary rocks to discover new and exciting material.

 

 

3) It IS sonically interesting. The arrangements, while perhaps not from the Radiohead school, are complex, yet still available and open. For more rebuttal to this assertion, see topic 1.

 

(the infamous "1"...I love digital editing!!)

1) It DOESN'T sound bad -- in fact, it sounds great. Roger engineered this disc exactly the way he should have, although the crisp, clean sonic textures probably don't offer enough limiting and distortion for some tastes (thank God!).

 

I guess that's why that consortium won engineering gods of the year. Frankly, I found it sonicly predictable, grainy and flaccid...but then again, I wasted my vote on "Kid A"...which I found had 'emotion and depth' to a nicely interwoven tapestry of interesting tones and textures.

 

There was once a time when 'rock and roll' (which is all this shit is) was a ground breaking event. I don't know how to break this to the "401/k tours" of this world, but the reality is that they have done more to harm to musical evolution than they were of benefit. That goes double for CSNY, as well as my beloved Rolling Stones. Enough already. Would you $300 a ticket motherfuckers please get on your yachts and let some rock and roll clubs open again? The heros of the 60's-70's that we are still embraced by the balding middle management mooks were all signed in their 20's...where are today's 20 year olds? Are they any less creative or prolific? No, they're just not getting a chance because the old fucks that control radio/"the industry" have the purchasing public trained to not think...just to purchase the regurgitated repackaged horseshit that they ram down our throats.

 

My next door neighbors have teenaged children. In the summer, they'll have friends over, and the next thing I know I'm hearing Led Zeppelin wafting over my lawn. Led Zeppelin? Huh? Explain this to me? I passed the neighbor kid a copy of the new Tony Iommi record, the next time I saw him he commented that he thought it was pretty cool...yet he has no idea that Tony Iommi is old enough to be his father. I guess that record isn't cool enough to be pushed on 'Classic Shit Radio'.

 

4) Does it HAVE to break new ground to be good?

 

It would be nice. When Brian Setzer is looked upon as some kind of visionary, as the 'Cherry Poppin' Daddys' pick up the slack and make it a near "genre"...we've got us a big fuckin' "lack of creativity problem". We have all these groovy tools that will allow up to do damn near anything except get the truly inventive music to the masses...how do you figure that happened? As someone who half loathes the democratization of recording, I find myself embracing it on a far more regular basis. Seems the only really inventive stuff is coming out of basements these days.

 

 

Would you have preferred a Steely Dan hip-hop album?

 

No, I would have preferred that they all sought 'sound financial planning and advice' and left pop music to people 1/3rd their age. Newsflash...Jimi Hendrix was 28 when he died. Under 30 is a good time to say what you have to say, then get the hell out of the way and let someone else have a turn. You don't have to go to extremes (though I have heard some of what Glen Ballard did with Aerosmith...adding loops and what not...*way* fucking better than the sanitized spew that was finally released) with the 'genre crossing' crap. Most of it is so fucking 'hokey' it's truly saddening. Ya know, I couldn't give a fuck about Michael Bolton either, but at least give him credit for understanding he's not some "earthshattering" event...just a hack with bad hair and a whole lotta cash.

 

Perhaps Eminem should do a swing record. How about the jazz stylings of Johnny Cash? Or maybe Sting should start writing country songs (OOOPS -- Sting has put country songs on his last three CDs! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ). And in terms of songs, arrangements, production, and sheer chops, Steely Dan was breaking ground that few others even tread on today.

 

Yes, they certainly were breaking ground that few others tread upon today...and thank the fucking good lord for that. "Stink" (a.k.a the artist that was formerly relevant in the early/mid-80's) is about as close as I can think of...and at least there's no fucking incessant Rhodes spew.

Spare me. By the way...they "broke some ground" in the 70's...now they're just digging a hole.

 

 

6) Yeah, Ken, a lot of us do care. That's why Two Against Nature sold more copies than any of the other album nominees except Eminem. The record labels have a huge music-buying audience that they're totally ignoring -- the 35-60 demographic who bought tons of music and then dutifully upgraded their vinyl collections to CD. That's why groups like CSNY, U2, Pink Floyd, etc. still sell out concert venues and still sell CDs -- because a lot of us still care and would still buy more music if it weren't for the predominance of silicone teens, boy bands, and hate rap.

 

 

You are right, the Grammys are without doubt a sales referendum, nothing more, and annually a lot less. I missed the 'telecast'...just curious, did they broadcast more than 6 catagories this year? Did I miss the big event? Did Jennifer Lopez's tits come all the way out of the dress this year? ...or was she 'last years model'?

 

There is a hell of a lot more out there than 'boy bands' and 'gansta rap'. At some point, if you actually decide to pull your head out of your ass you might get to experience some of the really cool shit that's around. Go pick up a copy of 'Transcendental Blues'...listen to it 6 times before passing judgment, then listen to it 6 more times...guess what, every time you listen to it you're going to hear something you never heard before (oh shit, Steve's over 40!! bad example).

 

Check out 'Nightrain', or 'Johnny A' (Steve Vai's label just signed it...this is an album with some much vibe it's scary!! If you close your eyes you can see the 'red crushed velvet wallpaper' and the 'iron railing' in front of the stage...the audio on this record has amazing depth and vibe, the playing superb, the overall presentation-timeless!!).

 

Go pick up a copy of Marah "Kids In Philly" (Artemis Records), have you ever heard of the 'Spanic Boys'? Did you know Prince did an album with Larry Graham? Have you ever checked out the 'soundscapes' Bill Laswell creates (oh, and he's old too!! Go figure). There is so much more out there than the predigested, regurgitated "classic shit" spew so many people seem to embrace with such ferver. Yeah, Prince and Laswell and Larry Graham are neanderthals as well...but could you really handle the 'Chemical Brothers'? 2/3rds of "techno", like 2/3rds of 'rap', like 2/3rds of the shit that came out in the 70's is shit. But in that dung heap are a few jewels should you care to take the time and effort to look.

 

Words on the street that James (why couldn't he have had the balls to do a fatal overdose) Taylor is going to come out with yet another "pre-posthumous" album...get set for 2002 to be the James Taylor show [yawn].

 

Sorry for the long post, but someone over the age of 30 had to reply to the Dan-bashing.

 

Hey, it's obvious that the plethora of over 40 white men that vote on this shit agree with you. As an 'over 40 white man', I'm sincerely embarrassed to call them my bretheren.

 

Of the 5 choices in that category, 'Two Against Music" was last on my list...funny, nobody has mentioned "Midnite Vultures" by Beck...did he fall off the collective 'its cool to be old and dig Beck' radar? While not quite as compelling as his previous efforts, it still seemed deeper in spirit than "Two Against Summerhomelessness".

 

-----

 

Fletcher

Mercenary Audio

http://www.mercenary.com

[Lee Flier]

Hey Fletcher,

 

Couldn't agree with you more about Steely Dan. Even though I grew up when they were in their heyday, I still thought they sucked even then. But, of course many of my peers disagree. My vote would've gone to Kid A as well, even though I really don't like it nearly as much as I did OK Computer, and I'm pretty much with you on Beck too - I still think he's cool, even though I liked some of his recent previous stuff better.

 

But then again, I don't care who the Grammies do or don't recognize because any illusions I might have had that it was a legitimate award were shattered all the way back in 1978, when the "Saturday Night Fever" soundtrack won Album of the Year over the Stones' "Some Girls". I didn't watch the show the other night, either.

 

BUT... although I hate tired old farts rehashing the past as much as the next person, I don't agree that anybody over 30 or anybody who isn't "breaking new ground" musically has nothing to say. I agree that it's hard to sustain the level of inspiration that you had in your youth when 1) you've been doing the same thing for a decade or two, and/or 2) you're rich and have everything you want. But I don't think somebody necessarily has to re-invent music in order to be compelling. Passion is more compelling to me than "originality" and if somebody is passionate and inspired in what they do, I have no problem with them. If someone is "clever" and inventive or technically proficient but there's no depth of passion behind it, I could care less about what they do.

 

I also think the reason a lot of musicians burn out by 30 or 40 is because they don't do anything else. It's hard to have something to say about your life if you don't have a life. How many songs about "being on the road" and doing drugs and dealing with fawning groupies or crooked record execs does the world need? But if that's your life, that's what you'll write about. You gotta stay in touch with the world and with your imagination, to stay inspired. It can be done, but damn few people do it.

 

I'm about to turn 38 in a month and I still don't think I've said even a fraction of what I have to say musically. I think it's partly because I spent several years of my 30's (and even my 20's for that matter) doing other stuff besides music. I've retained my burning curiosity about the world in general, not only the musical world. I'd like to think life can be a gradual unfolding and flowering of potential rather than a brief flash of youthful enthusiasm followed by a downhill slide from then on. Lots of people in other walks of life (science, writing, art, teaching, etc.) don't realize their full potential until later in life - why not music?

 

I do agree that there's better music currently going on "under the radar" of the major labels than what's on the charts. Maybe one outcome of this will also be that some older people who are just coming into their own, but are passed over by the majors solely because of their age and "image", or who have families and lives and can't see going on the road all the time, will be able to have their say.

 

--Lee

 

 

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 02-25-2001 at 10:41 AM

[Uh Clem]

Maybe Two Against Nature represents getting old and dealing or not dealing with how well your life has turned out so far? "Grinding through your day gig" not so fulfilling - wishing you could have something else or just that nobody could have it - what a shame... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

[robotobonhome.com]

As a kid in my early twenties who's not exactly a fan of the music industry, following the example of keeping my enemies close to me, I must say that there is a big time need for a changing of the guard. NARAS is nothing more to me than a fancy pants club, who really do nothing but be fancy. I've been blown off by more execs who I thought were well acquinted with me but really were more interested in the company I keep. Execs like those who discovered late 70's piano crooners (aka street smart songsmiths namded Joe something or other) and one head of a&r at some Eurpean airline slash record label owned by some ass who runs a remote island resort for fellow assheads with pretty faces @ $17,000 a week.

 

These guys, seem to have it in their noggin's that they are something, for whatever reasons that evade my observation. That is to say no one would ever recognize them outside the industry (most even in the industry as they now have puppet fatheads doing their grunt work like signing bands, then take credit for the 'discovery'), even if they put out trading cards. These are the same children with greyed hair and yellowing eyes that discovered Steely Dan's and more recently drove American musical culture into the state of shit it's in now.

 

Animosities aside, and I hold back no personal anonymity, I do not really claim to ever be some songwriter messiah or whatnot. But I will say to my embarrasment and for the utter dissapointment I feel for you all, there are more true musical geniouses handling your baggage and cooking your grand slams than ever will be noticed by those able to fund them. Along with this statement I will also tell you that those geniouses couldn't care less that they'll die bricklayers, because what they create fulfills them in ways legions of fans and heaps of money would clearly detract from.

 

What I hope to get across to you who reads this and perhaps to those you tell, is get out! Go find and support these true talents, this possible next generation of influencing artists so that your offspring can know what it is to create with pure abandon.

 

Don't forget to visit an art galery once in your life. If there is anything in more danger of extinction than ultra-talented musicians, it is your local Rembrant's, Monet's, etc.

 

later,

-rob

 

 

 

This message has been edited by robotobon@home.com on 02-25-2001 at 04:21 PM

[lakersrule]

Originally posted by Anderton:

Well, streets don't enunciate very well, and I don't think they're too good at checking their sources...

 

Nope, we're still here.

 

Well you did shit can 2 people and a bunch of the cats will be shifted over to write for the mags...RIGHT???

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

No one reading this will ever come up with the quality of tunes that Becker and Fagan have. If I'm wrong just point me to your MP3's or CD's. The amount of memorable songs on their first five albums was amazing.

Are they way, way past their prime ? Yes of course they are, but they are being honored for the work they did in the 70's.

 

A lot of record company 40-somethings don't find the great artists because it takes a lot of time and energy. I love to do it because I know how rewarding it can be to find music that stimulates you. The internet makes it easy to network with people that have similar tastes and can point you to all kinds of great music. "Thank God for the internet" (S. Hogarth).

 

We won't even remember any Beck and Prince songs 25 years from now. Little Red Corvette, Loser, Raspberry Beret. I can't even type because I'm laughing too hard ! They are clever, talented guys but most of their output is fluff. At least Becker and Fagan had the decency to retire for awhile. Prince is never going away.

[KenElevenShadows]

>> No one reading this will ever come up with the quality of tunes that Becker and Fagan have. If I'm wrong just point me to your MP3's or CD's.>>

 

Sounds like your mind's already made up.

 

If not, give either "Shegar" or "L'Oceano"a shot.

 

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/31/eleven_shadows.html

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

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music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[KenElevenShadows]

>> Ken, what's your favorite Steve Gadd tune on Aja? - take a quick review and get back to us. There's some really incredible drums on that album. >>

 

You know, that's really hard to say. "Aja" (the song), probably...

 

I am listening to my cassette tape right now (which is missing all the liner notes) and think it's "Aja".

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[KenElevenShadows]

>> funny, nobody has mentioned "Midnite Vultures" by Beck...did he fall off the collective 'its cool to be old and dig Beck' radar? While not quite as compelling as his previous efforts, it still seemed deeper in spirit than "Two Against Summerhomelessness">>

 

Actually, i did twice on this forum already. Either Radiohead or Beck. Although a lot of people disagree with me, actually, "Midnite Vultures" is my favorite Beck album. A lot of Beck fans like "Odelay" more, but for whatever reason, "Midnite Vultures" really grabs my ear. It's pretty fricking hard to go wrong with a Beck album -- "Mutations" is also pretty cool. A lot of us around Los Angeles have seen Beck quite a few times at small clubs and backyard parties and whatnot and have really always admired his talent.

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Curve Dominant]

YO FLETCHA...

 

You da man - I'm still LMAO. That was true.

 

Marah - that's funny. I used ta double-bill with them at the now-defunct Barbary Club. We always had fun at those gigs, and we'd be stumblin' outta the place at the end of the night. I'm surprised I ever made it home in one piece.

 

The Grammy's are like a relic - and the least useful thing about NARAS. Philly NARAS has actually done some cool things in Illadelph, like an in-session forum with King Britt at Second Story Recording on dance re-mixing (that was dope), some of the live events here have been very cool. But Grammys are so hyped. It's just advertising $$$ for the TV industry. It's got nothing to do with music.

 

Remember that NARAS means National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences. It's mostly engineers, and every engineer I've ever encountered in a commercial recording studio was dreadfully behind the times when it came to what was new in music production, with a few exceptions. Or worse: they were trying to hijack the flavor of the month. My condolences.

 

There is so much music in the world today that musicians cannot see it. All they think about is the money and the glory and the fame and the glamour. Music has more than the sum of all that. You may think I'm crazy, but create some truly incredible music, and see what comes to ya.

[alphajerk]

first of all prince hs so many songs in his vault that he could die tomorrow and they could still release an album a year for the rest of MY life.

 

beck IS the real deal, fluff or not. he consistantly puts out good shit [although i find the real masters of his sonic domain to be Ween but their a little too off kilter to be accepted by many] mutations will be one of THOSE albums. midnight vultures wasnt my favorite by him but its still better than a lot of what is out there... btw, wasnt it released in 99? i would have chosen it over kid a.

 

kid a is a pretty bold album and sonically very enveloping. its better than a lot of shit out there but in the vein they tapped, ive heard better. if you like kid a then you should check out mercury rev's 'see you on the other side', probably 4 years old at least [once again, the americans are ahead of the british... just takes travelling to the other side of the pond for people to firgure it out here. how weird is that?] anyways, the reason that album keeps popping in my head i finally figured out is that a Kid A song is basically the same bassline as on the MR album. radiohead is pretty fuckin cool though.

 

hey, it hasnt even been 25 years and people already go "who the hell is steely dan?" i thought they WERE dead but at least i have heard them.

[Guest]

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

album of the year?

Medeski, Martin and Wood-"the dropper"

 

Steely Dan deserve all the awards in the world, as does Roger. Its just this is the type of thing they should have won 25 years ago. This music industry is about the young blood. Okay, lotsa groups dont figure out how to make a good record until theyre 3rd or fourth shot, and then theyre ignored because theyre passe. But Middle aged men? c'mon call me ageist but I see lots of young(er) blood thats more deserving as far as their current work is concerned.

 

Btw, I also hear strains of Tortoise and Ui in Kid A not to mention Stereo Lab, the Sea and Cake, or Yo La Tengo. And obviously those guys have owned a few Pink Floyd albums.

 

When I hear where Radiohead started, and where theyre at now its eerie. Why? Because I cant help Imagine what that guy who shot his head off in seattle would be doing were he still around(the guy in the band radiohead emulated on theyre 1st joint). I think Kid A is unique, not because its the greatest album ever but because it found a wide audience with a-tonal horn bursts, blips and vocoders et al.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by SteveRB:

No one reading this will ever come up with the quality of tunes that Becker and Fagan have.

 

Amen, Brother!

 

No one writes music that appeals to everyone. If S. Dan's not your fancy, that's the way it is. If it makes you feel good to bash them, you have every right to do so. But any objective listener will have to agree that Steely D. has carved out a truly original sound and style. They don't sing the "I'm so said 'cause you left me" songs that a million sappy pop and country acts do. They don't record the "Let's party all night long!" anthems that a million indistinguishable rock acts do. They don't produce the "Suck my d*%k or I'll pop a cap in you a&* m*th@rf#ck$r!" dreck that passes for "cutting edge" these days.

 

Clean this mess up or we'll all end up in jail -

Those test tubes and the scale -

Just get it all out of here.

Is there gas in the car?

Yes, there's gas in the car.

I think the people down the hall know who we are.

 

It may not be your cup of tea, but at least it's no one else's regurgitated tea. It's unique, intelligent, deep, brilliant songwriting, and it stretches the concept of pop music in directions that no one else has explored, before or since.

[JohnBartus]

1) Fletcher, I'm really glad people come into your store and give you "reams of cool shit on a regular basis." I, on the other hand, live in South Florida (the Keys), and there's not a lot of great music being produced or performed anywhere near here. And just because I like Steely Dan doesn't mean my head's up my ass... this coming from someone who actually preferred Eminem... hmm.

 

2) THE MAJOR LABELS HAVE NO REAL INTEREST IN BRINGING GOOD MUSIC TO THE PEOPLE! So unless one has lots of free time (or has stuff handed to him), he or she likely won't find good music. That's why I mentioned the 35-60 demographic -- they'd likely buy more great new music if great new music were more readily available. Unfortunately, all that's there in plain view are the Pink Floyds and Rolling Stones and CSNYs and U2s and, yes, Steely Dan. For those in that demographic brought up on melody, and no matter how socially relevant they may be, hip hop and techno will always be a tough sell.

 

I'll be the first to admit that Steely Dan's Grammy had much more to do with their '70s work than their Y2K opus, but that doesn't alter my opinion -- and that's all that anyone expresses here -- that "Two Against Nature" is a far more compelling listen than 95% of the rest of the releases from the past year.

 

3) Fletcher, you and I agree more than you realize about NARAS, the Grammies, and the state of the music *industry* (remember Jethro Tull's Heavy Metal Grammy?). The sad truth is that there is so much good music that many of us will never hear. I'm hopeful that indies can achieve success via Internet marketing and distribution, and that the majors don't find a way to kill that off, too.

 

4) New doesn't necessarily = Good, and Over 30 doesn't necessarily = Bad. Think about the music Hendrix might have made had he lived past 28, the creative directions he was just beginning to explore. You may not agree, but Neil Young has remained creative and vital through the years (much more so than C, S, or N). Prince is another artist who still makes compelling music. Tom Petty keeps getting better. Dylan now and again comes out with good records. Even your "beloved Rolling Stones" haven't totally sucked in the '90s.

 

(Sarcasm alert) I sure wish that old fart B.B. King would just hang it up, though. God, how many times can he recycle those tired old licks? And that whisky-and-cigarettes-edge soulful blues voice is so passé. He's how old? Like 70 or something? The man belongs in a home fer chrissakes!! (End sarcasm alert)

 

As with music and opinions thereon, Fletcher has already said it best: "Your mileage may vary."

 

 

------------------

John Bartus

Radio Active Productions

We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed.

1-888-93-RADIO

www.radioactivedigital.com

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

But any objective listener will have to agree that Steely D. has carved out a truly original sound and style.

 

Well that's kind of funny... because listening to music is anything but "objective". And I personally have never found SD to be all that "original" either. They sound just like a lot of the other "AOR" bands of the 70s to me, none of which I liked in spite of other people's constantly pointing out their technical proficiency and their "deep" lyrics. It's always just left me cold. But then I have no illusions that there is such a thing as "objective" criteria for music listening. If you like it, then by all means crank it up! Just not in MY living room. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

--Lee

[KidCharlemagne]

who is this goucho, doesn't know the Dan. what are you, drinking your supper from a paper sack? For my money, when all the dime dancin is through, i'll run to the second best song-writing duo in the history of rock (after lennon/mccartney, ahead of simon/garfunkel, and on a par with the all time greats like the gershwins, rogers/hammerstein, etc.)

 

the last effort is not their best, but they still set the standard in intelligence, wit, groove, instrumentation, line. dark humor. a lot more fun than the over the top obviousness of Eminem, the preciousness of KidA, the affectations of Beck. people just don't appreciate the subtle, wry and literate any more.

[blairl]

It's interesting to hear different peoples opinions on music and audio quality. I hear people lauding the audio quality of certain projects that I personally don't think sound very good. Everyone's opinion is just that, "an opinion".

 

I must admit that I am surprised by Fletcher's comments on Steely Dan's music and audio quality. WOW!

 

I personally like all kinds of music. I don't like to categorize music at all. When people ask me what kind of music I listen to, I say, "good music". What I think is good is subjective; it's my opinion.

[sduraybito]

Steely Dan's music takes a bit of listening to sink in. A lot of its charms are subliminal and you can't just take it for what you hear on the surface. To all those who don't get: stick around a while, you'll get there...

 

>> Ken, what's your favorite Steve Gadd tune on Aja? - take a quick review and get back to us. There's some really incredible drums on that album. >>

 

Ralph Humphrey and Bernard Purdie share drumming duties on Aja. If memory serves, Gadd only played on the title cut.

 

>You know, that's really hard to say. "Aja" (the song), probably...

 

Yeah except for what about the severely overloaded hi-hat? Rather uncharacteristic of Roger's work, wouldn't you say?

 

 

------------------

Siegfried

My website

 

This message has been edited by sduraybito on 02-26-2001 at 06:51 PM

[Anderton]

Okay, so I'm not a huge Steely Dan fan. But I have a bunch of their CDs, and sometimes, they're the music that works best for me. It's very mood-dependent - I wouldn't play 'em in the car, for example, but on a quiet evening at home, they ring true.

 

As to Roger's work, let's face it, those albums sound immaculate. Some may consider it sterile, but they're not the type of group that's into distorting their 2-track master, know what I mean? Given that NARAS hands out awards mostly on the basis of TECHNICAL achievement, it's certainly hard to fault the choice of the new Dan album.

 

Radiohead and Beck are great artists, and the technical quality of their albums put them in the top 5 of records for the year from the viewpoint of the voting members of NARAS. That's no small feat; I wouldn't mind being placed in the top 100!

[dansouth]

Originally posted by KidCharlemagne:

For my money, when all the dime dancin is through, i'll run to the second best song-writing duo in the history of rock (after lennon/mccartney, ahead of simon/garfunkel, and on a par with the all time greats like the gershwins, rogers/hammerstein, etc.)

 

Get along, Kid Charlemagne!

[dansouth]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

listening to music is anything but "objective

 

No, I think we can be as objective as we want to be. I can objectively say that Barbra Streisand, Whitney Houston, and Christina Aguilera all have very well-developed singing voices, even though I'll be the first one out of the room if you play one of their records. I can objectively say that the Stones put a lot of energy and passion in their music, even if it sounds like it was recorded by drunkards in a condemned garage. In fact, I can even say objectively that Donald Fagen has one of the weakest voices in pop music history, but it's quirkiness seems to work toward Steely Dan's advantage (most of the time). When you write lyrics like, "I'm going insane/and I'm laughing at the frozen rain," it helps if you sound a little crazy.

 

This message has been edited by dansouth@yahoo.com on 02-26-2001 at 11:12 PM

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by KidCharlemagne:

For my money, when all the dime dancin is through, i'll run to the second best song-writing duo in the history of rock (after lennon/mccartney, ahead of simon/garfunkel, and on a par with the all time greats like the gershwins, rogers/hammerstein, etc.)

 

Me too, but I'm curious how you figured "Jagger/Richards" has anything to do with this thread?

 

-----

 

Fletcher

Mercenary Audio

http://www.mercenary.com

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com:

Me too, but I'm curious how you figured "Jagger/Richards" has anything to do with this thread?

 

Once again, LOL @ Fletcher.

 

I have nothing to add to this topic except for my humble opinion that Aja was such a damn good album that if they got the Grammy for Two Against Nature in its place, it's just a little karma in action.

 

And yes, I liked several of the other albums in the catagory (especially Kid A), and perhaps Radiohead will win a major award for a less-great album they do 25 years later as a make-good and justice will prevail.

 

And Jagger and Richards might live to see it. Shit, they still may be touring.

 

- Jeff

[lakersrule]

Wow this site is still kickin'?

 

Speaking of Steve Gadd, did he plays drums on the Beatles, "Come Together"?

 

This message has been edited by lakersrule on 06-30-2001 at 01:20 AM

[batman forgot his cape]

Speaking as a jive-ass, full-on, 20-year-old tea-bag inhabiting the northern wastes of England in the early 1970s....Steely Dan and Little Feet ruined my career, when I didn't even know I had one...

I shoulda copied Led Zeppelin (who I hated for ripping off Jeff Beck), instead of trying to (very unsuccessfully) write clever songs with opaque lyrics, or get down and mix it with professors George and Payne.......

Oh well..I forgive 'em all.....

"They call Alabama the Crimson Tide.....they call me a daft cunt!....

Three degrees in be-bop, a PHD in swing.....where's me fez????

Luv t'all

Ade http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif........

BTW..Kid A ain't half bad for a bunch of middle-class bozos from middle-England......