Musicplayer going bye bye?

[lakersrule]

What's the scoop? You guys tankin'? That's the word on the street...

[Curve Dominant]

I dunno about that, but the 76ers sure did "tank" the Lakers last week. Looks like Iverson's got Kobe's number these days.

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant:

I dunno about that, but the 76ers sure did "tank" the Lakers last week. Looks like Iverson's got Kobe's number these days.

 

Sixers slipped one in. Kobe's gotten the best of Iverson in the past, nothing has changed. Now I know you're lost...

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Anderton]

>>What's the scoop? You guys tankin'? That's the word on the street... <<

 

Well, streets don't enunciate very well, and I don't think they're too good at checking their sources...

 

Nope, we're still here.

[Curve Dominant]

Chip posts:

 

>> Kobe's gotten the best of Iverson in the past, nothing has changed. Now I know you're lost.<<

 

WHO GOT THE MVP AT THE ALL-STAR GAME, CHUMP?

 

Chump McDonald. That's your new name.

 

Who's lost now, b*tch??!!!

[not Cereal]

ALRIGHT LADIES

[KenElevenShadows]

Kobe seems to be doing fine to me...

 

What seems *wrong* to me

What seems terribly *wrong* to me

is how a complete turd of an album can beat out Radiohead, Beck and really, everyone else in the category for a Grammy. It sounds bad, the songs are dull, hardly anyone even knows the album is out, but Steely Dan wins album of the year? Is it good songwriting? Is it sonically interesting? Does it break new ground? Is it relevant? Does anyone care?

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest]

Kid a is album of the year hands down.No contest folks.

 

He He He. Now that napsters gone we get to get our free music from p2p networks that WONT be stopped. Sorry greedy bastards GAME OVER.!!!!

p.s.-

Arent there anti trust laws to prevent control of the worlds media from falling into the hands of a handful of companies? Well, the governments of the world dont care SO I DONT CARE. Its time to STOP paying for music.

 

Well, I still pay for my music, But I shouldnt. Now when I pay for music I feel guilty because Im supporting the crooks that have been ripping off artists for years. I need to stop paying for music so I can have a clear concience http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant:

WHO GOT THE MVP AT THE ALL-STAR GAME, CHUMP?

 

... and who is wearing the ring? Who will probably have another ring by this time next year, and who will retire with the most?

 

It should have been Ray Allen anyhow.

 

Man, you're too easy!

 

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[jimmyripphotmail.com]

Y'all,

 

I agree with Ken about the Steely Dan album - two 'ughs' up! Other than Tom Barney's bass work on the first track, I think the whole album is really dull. Just another example of how out-of-touch the 'Academy' is...

 

 

 

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Rob Miller

Philadelphia, PA

www.bklounge.net

[miroslav]

Hey, I was suprised that U2 won best Record of the Year. Even though I'm a big Eno/Lanois fan, the U2 albums are all starting to sound alike. They need to "do a Bowie" and get new producers and a new, fresh direction.

 

I thought Creed should have won over U2, but they at least got Best Rock Song for "With Arms Wide Open".

 

But what the hell is the category difference between:

Record of the Year (U2) and

Album of the Year (Steely Dan)???

 

This message has been edited by miroslav on 02-22-2001 at 12:56 PM

[KenElevenShadows]

>> But what the hell is the category difference between:

Record of the Year (U2) and

Album of the Year (Steely Dan)??? >>

 

 

Record is for one single song; album is for...well, you know!

 

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Uh Clem]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Kobe seems to be doing fine to me...

 

What seems *wrong* to me

What seems terribly *wrong* to me

is how a complete turd of an album can beat out Radiohead, Beck and really, everyone else in the category for a Grammy. It sounds bad, the songs are dull, hardly anyone even knows the album is out, but Steely Dan wins album of the year? Is it good songwriting? Is it sonically interesting? Does it break new ground? Is it relevant? Does anyone care?

 

Seems the album is selling OK - I guess more than a few people have heard it.

 

Could be Flash-in-the-Pan syndrome though - who will be and who won't be? If you look at the body of work, the Dan deserved the recognition - perhaps this wasn't the best album for them, and perhaps they should have gotten this along time ago. I for one, however, am glad to see the big picture reflected to some extent in these otherwise superficial events.

 

 

This message has been edited by stevepow on 02-22-2001 at 01:59 PM

[josephandrews.edu]

Im sorry, but who the hell is Steely Dan? Ive never even heard of them. I was like, huh?

[dansouth]

Originally posted by joseph@andrews.edu:

Im sorry, but who the hell is Steely Dan? Ive never even heard of them. I was like, huh?

 

I'll assume that you're under 25... Steely Dan was a big group in the 70's, renowned for clever tunes, jazzy arrangements, impressive sidemen and studio players, and high calibre production courtesy of Roger Nichols.

[spigotsaol.com]

Actually, Record of the year is for the PEFORMER(S), Song is for the WRITER(S), and Album is for the ALBUM.

[Guest]

>>Im sorry, but who the hell is Steely Dan? Ive never even heard of them. I was like, huh?<<

 

Well hell, that one sure's got me feelin old this morning,

otherwise I'd be LMAO.

[Anderton]

>>Im sorry, but who the hell is Steely Dan? Ive never even heard of them. <<

 

It's a pop band?!? All this time, I thought it was the name of a dildo in a William Burroughs book! Why, these youngsters with their funny band names...

[Anderton]

Uh....should I retitle this thread, given that there are only two messages that relate to the title, and obviously, we're still here?!?

[Curve Dominant]

LMAO Craig! I totally forgot what this thread was called.

 

BTW Chump McDonald: have you heard? Mutombo came to Philly. Later, Lakers. Kobe will not fly in the House of Mutombo. Nobody flies in the House of Mutombo without Mutombo's permission, and Mutombo does not give permission!

 

I thought that guy who asked who Steely Dan was was being sarcastic, but it provoked some funny responses. Bill Turner: "Well hell, that one sure's got me feelin old this morning, otherwise I'd be LMAO." And Craig: "Why, these youngsters with their funny band names... "

 

Yo Miro: give the new U2 another listen - it doesn't sound anything like anything they've done, and that's why peeps luv it. That, and THAT F*CKING CHORUS on "Beautiful Day." Wow.

[JohnBartus]

Wow... what a lot of Steely Dan bashing!

 

Two Against Nature is a triumphant return for Walter & Donald (AND Roger), and shows that one doesn't have to be young to compose and perform great music. Ken, I really don't get these comments:

 

<

 

WHAT!?!? Let's take the objections one at a time.

 

1) It DOESN'T sound bad -- in fact, it sounds great. Roger engineered this disc exactly the way he should have, although the crisp, clean sonic textures probably don't offer enough limiting and distortion for some tastes (thank God!).

 

2) The songs are far from dull. Fagen & Becker are far superior tunesmiths than just about anyone else making popular music. No one else even comes close to forming complicated chord progressions and jazz changes into actual melodies you can sing in your head. The lyrics may be too subtle for people brought up on "Fuck tha bitch, kill tha cops," but there are actual stories contained within, not just swagger and braggadocio.

 

3) It IS sonically interesting. The arrangements, while perhaps not from the Radiohead school, are complex, yet still available and open. For more rebuttal to this assertion, see topic 1.

 

4) Does it HAVE to break new ground to be good? Would you have preferred a Steely Dan hip-hop album? Perhaps Eminem should do a swing record. How about the jazz stylings of Johnny Cash? Or maybe Sting should start writing country songs (OOOPS -- Sting has put country songs on his last three CDs! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ). And in terms of songs, arrangements, production, and sheer chops, Steely Dan was breaking ground that few others even tread on today.

 

5) Define "relevant." What may be relevant to you might not mean shit to someone else. Remember back in SSS on AOL when you caught a load of crap by misinformed/uncaring people who didn't understand why you felt as strongly as you did about goods produced in China? I would give you the same advice I'd have given your detractors then: try to understand a little bit more about the subject in question before you offer an opinion.

 

6) Yeah, Ken, a lot of us do care. That's why Two Against Nature sold more copies than any of the other album nominees except Eminem. The record labels have a huge music-buying audience that they're totally ignoring -- the 35-60 demographic who bought tons of music and then dutifully upgraded their vinyl collections to CD. That's why groups like CSNY, U2, Pink Floyd, etc. still sell out concert venues and still sell CDs -- because a lot of us still care and would still buy more music if it weren't for the predominance of silicone teens, boy bands, and hate rap.

 

Sorry for the long post, but someone over the age of 30 had to reply to the Dan-bashing.

 

 

 

------------------

John Bartus

Radio Active Productions

We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed.

1-888-93-RADIO

www.radioactivedigital.com

[dansouth]

Thread renaming is in order, esp. since the original title was speculative and hopefully untrue.

 

I was a huge Steely Dan fan in the late 70's. I owned every album up through Aja, and I liked every cut on every disc. I've never experienced a 100% hit rate with any other act. That said, Two Against Nature is NOT their best work. I see the Grammies as a 24 year posted dated acknowledgement of Aja, one of the finest and best sounding albums of all time, so deep on so many levels. Aja ranks with Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper, Electric Ladyland, Dark Side, and a handful of other hyper-influential releases. That said, Can't Buy A Thrill, Countdown To Ecstacy, Pretzel Logic, and Katy Lied are nearly as good, and The Royal Scam was respectable.

 

I think Walter and Donald are among the greatest lyricists of all time - maybe THE greatest. So many of their lines stick in my mind:

 

- No, I've never met Napoleon, but I'll try to find the time...

 

- I stepped onto the platform/the man gave me the news/he said, "You must be joking, son, where did you get those shoes?"

 

- I stroll like a viper through these suburban streets/make love to these women, languid and bittersweet...

 

- Bad sneakers and a pina colada, my friend/stomin' down the avenue by Radio City with a/transistor and a large sum of money to spend...

 

- Do you think that I'm a fool? Do you think that I don't see that ditch out in the valley that they're diggin' just for me?

 

Nobody writes words like that. It's a totally unique style. Then there's the performances of guest artists, like Jay Graydon's guitar solo on Peg, Pete Christleib's sax on Deacon Blues, Phil Woods on Dr. Wu, Victor Feldman, Larry Carlton, Wayne Shorter, and Steve Gadd's mini-symphony on the Aja title cut, and Jeff Baxter's wacko guitar on My Old School. Nothing else of that caliber exists anywhere in the history of pop music. It's a brilliant catalog of work and well deserving of a Grammy, even if it comes a quarter of a century late.

 

Of course, in the 70's they were giving Grammies to all of those really IMPORTANT artists like the Bee Gees and Olivia Newton John. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[robotobonhome.com]

Steely Dan has a sort of penthouse/cosmo appeal to them that made me laugh my ass off when I first heard them about a year ago. My friend (over 30) invited me to a party he was having to watch that live show thing they did for tv. I stayed for about 10 minutes, gut hurting from laughing so hard, and went downtown to see the Crash Test Dummies. They rocked the casbah I must say.

 

After seeing the Crash Test Dummies, a band I love terribly and everyone else hates, very complex pop arrangements and lyrics you never forget, dark, sadistic humor... Well, they played that Steely Dan thing again the next day on tv and everything fell into perspective. I can totally see how these guys won an award, because that 70's post-art-rock-break-out-the-fondue-shake-that-booty-jazzy-funky-stuff-too- cool-for-the-room-I-actually-went-to-college-to-learn music really rocks! There's a lot of depth in the songs I heard, and though the songs seemed to run on and on, and the soloing never ended, it's apparent that they've influenced a whole other generation to get laughed at and be misunderstood.

 

Was that the new CAD valve mic I saw on the sax?

 

-rrrrroobbbb!

[KenElevenShadows]

Hi John!

 

Re: Steely Dan bashing

 

I am glad that you expressed your opinion regarding Steely Dan and their winning Album of the Year.

 

I wanted to first address the assumption that people who don't care for Steely Dan are under 30 or are otherwise unfamiliar with their past work. Actually, I am over 30. I also own "Aja" (Steve Gadd in particular sounds great on this album!) and feel that the Elliot Randall solo in "Reelin' In the Years" is one of my favorite guitar solos -- and I don't usually like guitar solos (and yes, I play guitar).

 

John Bartus wrote:

>> try to understand a little bit more about the subject in question before you offer an opinion. >>

 

I believe that I am quite familiar with the subject in question, as evidenced by some of the above. While I don't know the exact location of Walter Becker and Donald Fagen's Hawaii studio, am unable to sing along to all the words of "Hey Nineteen", have only emailed with Elliot Randall several times, don't own a silvery dildo, and haven't corresponded with Roger Nichols or Elliot Scheiner, I do feel that I am well-informed on these matters to possess enough understanding to offer a comment on Steely Dan's latest album.

 

I believe that their latest effort sounds sterile. I always thought that even "Aja" suffered from a certain sterility, but could overlook that due to the intelligent songwriting and strong performances. However, this new one sounds so incredibly sterile that it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. I feel it sounds flat and uninvolving, and is the worst-sounding major label pop recording I've heard since the last Lenny Kravitz Pro Tools album. Additionally, the songs do not engage me -- or anyone else I know around here -- in any way that I find interesting or memorable.

 

Most of my friends range in age between the early 30s to their upper 40s, although I do have several friends who are in their mid-20s. NONE of these people -- most of whom are musicians or recording engineers -- even KNEW that Steely Dan had a new album out. A couple of friends heard the album before I sold it back, and thought it sounded really horrible. You stated that Steely Dan sold more than anyone else in the Album of the Year category aside from Eminem, but I personally don't know anyone who even knew that they still were together!

 

So, John, I realize that you believe that they are brilliant tunesmiths -- and when discussing their prior years, I'd have to agree with you. Sadly, I feel differently about their current output. I of course respect your opinion from previous posts, but in this case, I think we may have to agree to disagree about Steely Dan. While I admire your passion and enthusiasm for Steely Dan and respect that, I honestly feel that every single other person in the category was more deserving of winning Album of the Year, especially Beck and Radiohead, and am still disappointed that Steely Dan won. I recognize that they may be have been deserving of great accolades from NARAS at one point, but feel that the four others in the category had far superior albums from this past year -- and therefore, should have won Album of THE YEAR.

 

Despite your comment "try to understand a little bit more about the subject in question before you offer an opinion.", I still respect your opinion, don't wanna piss you off, and hope that you still respect my opinion even though it disagrees with yours!

 

Warmest Regards,

 

 

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[JohnBartus]

Ken,

 

Thanks for the response, and yes, I do respect your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree (sigh), and I apologize for any lack of respect or sensitivity on my part. I just can't hear the sterility or poor audio or substandard songwriting that others on this forum have cited as problems with Two Against Nature. We should invite Roger to this thread... Craig???

 

What is it about certain music that strikes one individual as way cool, yet leaves another totally cold? Answer that, and you'll have the secret formula for selling a million CDs!

 

 

 

------------------

John Bartus

Radio Active Productions

We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed.

1-888-93-RADIO

www.radioactivedigital.com

[Uh Clem]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Hi John!

 

I also own "Aja" (Steve Gadd in particular sounds great on this album!)

 

 

 

Ken, what's your favorite Steve Gadd tune on Aja? - take a quick review and get back to us. There's some really incredible drums on that album.

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant:

Kobe will not fly in the House of Mutombo. Nobody flies in the House of Mutombo

 

Dikembe's house is getting a bit old - he's got to make it back before Kobe. Besides, Kobe's gone over Mutumbo before...

 

anything they've done, and that's why peeps luv it. That, and THAT F*CKING CHORUS on "Beautiful Day." Wow.

 

Bono's intro from outside the building at the MTV awards was cooler; they should have promoted another song off their record, "Beautiful Day" doesn't need anymore exposure.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Anderton]

>>We should invite Roger to this thread... Craig???<<

 

All I have to say is...to each his own!

[alphajerk]

no doubt. i didnt know steely dan had an album out until people started talking about it in here. i thought they had broken up years ago. hey who cares? its not like youre forced to buy it now that it won a grammy...

 

i will say i have been let down by some of my most favorite bands in the past few years... i dont know whats up, even they dont seem inspired anymore and with many consistant great albums previously.

[Curve Dominant]

"Got a case of dynomite, I could hold out here all night!"

 

"It was a Beautiful Day, don't let it get away!"